Concern about anthias coloring

[Radman73]

I have 6 anthias in QT and this morning at feeding I noticed that one had darker patches than the others. I got the best pictures that I could. Any indication of what it is or could be? Patch is primarily on the left side with a hint on the underside and right side. Could this one be turning male or could it be a bacterial infection?

This fish has been out frequently swimming but at times just hangs out motionless on the bottom too. But, in all fairness, that's how all 6 behave.

Copper Power is at 2.5ppm.

I have general cure on hand as well as straight metroplex, kanaplex, and focus.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

That’s a bacteria infection.
Are you able to remove him and place him in a separate QT?
I️ also think you may have your copper dosage a little high. You want to keep it between 1.5-2.0

 

[Humblefish]

Looks like a bacterial infection, but could also be a huge bruise. Did he hurt himself in some way?

I️ also think you may have your copper dosage a little high. You want to keep it between 1.5-2.0

2.5ppm is therapeutic for Copper Power. They formulate it a little differently than Coppersafe.

 

[Radman73]

Looks like a bacterial infection, but could also be a huge bruise. Did he hurt himself in some way?

Don't think so. I didn't notice the coloring previously and I can't think of how or why we could have hurt himself other than swimming too fast into a PVC pipe.

I need to run GC anyway so I suppose now is as good a time as any unless you think I'd be better off mixing Metro and Kanaplex with focus and feeding with food?

 

[Radman73]

Maybe ammonia high too? Shining a light from the back it definitely looks like it's reading zero. From the front, it looks a little off to me. Not even to 0.25 yet but not zero either. I've done one small water change and regularly siphon out visible detritus and food after feeding. Just throwing it out there.

Another interesting behavior is that one of the other anthias seems to always hover near the one that is discolored. Almost like it's protective. The discolored one swims around frequently from place to place and then just hangs out.

 

[Radman73]

That’s a bacteria infection.
Are you able to remove him and place him in a separate QT?
I️ also think you may have your copper dosage a little high. You want to keep it between 1.5-2.0

I do have a separate 10gal tank that I can put him in but was wondering if I'd be just as well off running API's general cure since I had been planning on doing that anyway.

 

[Radman73]

I also have Ruby Reef Rally if a dip would be helpful.

 

[Radman73]

Sadly the fish already passed. That was pretty quick. I've been watching them for a fair amount of time each day and had not noticed the discoloration before now. Perhaps it was one of the ones that hid most of the time and came out infrequently. Of course, I did get the spare 10gal tank ready for him already. Figures. Guess that can be water change water! Thanks for the advice. I'll post a couple of pics that I took after I get it out for review.

 

[Radman73]

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

Sorry to hear that. I️ too had an anthia quickly develop similar markings and within 48 hours it died.

Bacteria infections are hard to over come IMO.

 

[Radman73]

So, been watching the rest of the anthias more closely. At times, feeding especially, the other 5 all come out. Today I noticed one looking like it was rubbing up against a PVC pipe repeatedly, so flashing. Since I'm at full copper dose, is it okay to FW dip the fish? Should I treat the FW with the same level of copper? Or, should I just treat prophylactically anyway since I was planning on it?

The remaining anthias are eating very well. They attack cyclops like there's no tomorrow. The 20gal QT tank has a HOB filter and a powerhead pointed at the surface so it should be getting plenty of air exchange. Any issue or concern with starting general cure treatment?

Thoughts?

 

[coweyes298]

You can FW dip them, but don't dose copper into the FW. Use the plain FW matched with temperature and have plenty gas exchange.

If you see white flat worm after FW, dose the general cure. Remember to have second dose 5 to 7 days apart from the first dose.

If you start to see red sore again on the remaining Anthias, dose metro + kanaplex, perhaps with furan 2 in QT. (Furan 2 will make your QT water to slightly yellow tint, so ammonia badge may not be useful after furan 2 dosage.)

 

[Radman73]

Thanks, dipped them but a white bucket was all I had available so unable to tell if anything came off. They are still acting lethargic and reclusive for some reason though 1 or 2 will occasionally swim around in the open.

One thing I did notice before I caught them was what looked like a couple of white spots on one of them when shining a flashlight down from the top. I had not noticed any previously and still can't see any when looking from the side. I'll be feeding them again in a bit and then doing another water change. Really perplexed at this point. Copper still appears to be at 2.5ppm(Copper Safe). I'll post the latest result for 2nd opinions though.

 

[Radman73]

First pic is the reference sample. 99% sure it's right at 2.5ppm. Second is the test from today.

 

[Radman73]

Not sure why the second pic doesn't show. Trying again here.

 

[coweyes298]

Second one looks brighter. How long is the copper treatment? I have trouble reading API so I bought chematric copper test kit. Expensive but more easier to read.

My anthias still show white dots at day 7 marks with 2.0 ppm coppersafe. But at 8th day that dot was gone.

 

[Radman73]

Only 2 days into the copper treatment.

 

[coweyes298]

2 days is still short. If dot is ich it will be on fish for 3 to 7 days before dropping off.

 

[Sycoticrealm]

It in copper no fish is ever 100%. Coloration changes happen in copper or in any QT from stress.
Pale and differences in coloration is common.
You need to treat what you're gonna treat and move your fish to a stable cycled QT.
There honestly no way to know for certain what it could be and very few of us have the equipment to bother.
We can sit here and guess all day but only thing I'd recommend is finish treatment and wing it off the copper and start feeding heavy in hopes to boost the fishes immune system.
I love garlic it increases appetite and may help in other ways unknown.
I always use two types of QT tanks.
One for chemical treatment and one that a cycled with live rock where i can watch for a month or more to be certain before introducing to the DT.
Goodluck and please analyze and watch closely for any progressing symptoms.

I actually suggest all natural QT for fish with heavy feedings to fatten up the fish then chemical for last resort but that just my methods.
Goodluck and take your time.

 

[Radman73]

2 days is still short. If dot is ich it will be on fish for 3 to 7 days before dropping off.

Buggers are just hard to see. I purposefully put the QT tank in an area of low light to try and ease them in. I'll keep checking and see if I can catch the same one from above again. They're just skittish when I walk up to them with a light on and dart for cover. The wrasse, meanwhile, isn't the least bit put off by the light lol!

I'm going to stay the course for now. When I fed earlier 4 of the 5 came out and I could se the other one eating some in it's PVC home. If it's ich or velvet, they need to stay in copper. If it's flukes, the FW dip should have helped and tide them over until the general cure kicks in.

And, if all this isn't enough, two of them at least feel well enough to start the dominance dance as I'm watching them just now.

It in copper no fish is ever 100%. Coloration changes happen in copper or in any QT from stress.
Pale and differences in coloration is common.
You need to treat what you're gonna treat and move your fish to a stable cycled QT.
There honestly no way to know for certain what it could be and very few of us have the equipment to bother.
We can sit here and guess all day but only thing I'd recommend is finish treatment and wing it off the copper and start feeding heavy in hopes to boost the fishes immune system.
I love garlic it increases appetite and may help in other ways unknown.
I always use two types of QT tanks.
One for chemical treatment and one that a cycled with live rock where i can watch for a month or more to be certain before introducing to the DT.
Goodluck and please analyze and watch closely for any progressing symptoms.

I actually suggest all natural QT for fish with heavy feedings to fatten up the fish then chemical for last resort but that just my methods.
Goodluck and take your time.

Thanks man. Just trying to do this the right way, for the first time lol! I may just be jumping the gun on these guys, those the spots and flashing do suggest otherwise. They ate immediately, twice the first day and twice on the second before treatment began. Eating wasn't an issue for any of the anthias until today. I just wonder if I should have started off with a dose of general cure before starting copper. In any case, lethargy can be a sign of velvet and flukes. Just not sure which I should have treated first. I'll remove all hiding spots tomorrow and check for spots again.

QT tanks were seeded with filter media that had soaked in my DT's sump for 4 weeks plus a couple of different bacteria's in a bottle. I don't feel like there has been or is an ammonia issue. I manually remove detritus a couple of times per day a short while after feeding.

Eventual plan is to use my 60 cube as a 4-6 week post treatment observation tank but it's currently QT'ing corals until mid-January.