Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

[motortrendz]

If you folks have not seen @Tuffloud1 build thread do so. It is awesome!

A couple thoughts/prognostications:
a) Should not be a cycle. Will be a very typical, dry setup, uglies phase.
b) Biggest risk is to the 90G acros struggling with nutrient deficiency. Big risk IMO.
c) Next biggest risk is dinoflagellates, but they will only inhabit the new tank, not the old one. Still, they will strip the nutrient out of the water, contributing to risk # b.

If any of you have spent as much time in the Dino thread as me, you've likely watched me go through this scenario. Three times. Every. Single. Time that I added a tank to an existing system it broke out with dinos (ostreopsis thankfully).

Here is what I would do:
a) Plumb it for the long term. Absurd not to connect these two gorgeous tanks.
b) Plumb it for the short term also (with isolating gate valves. Sorry, extra work.) **edit** I see u planned already for this
c) Run them as separate systems, but transfer over some rock, sand, whatever media you can spare to the sterile tank.
d) I don't know your stance on WCs, but once a week I would open the valves to run them as combined for, say an hour.
e) Feed the living daylights out of your 90. You just did a 100% WC. (I would skip Aminos as dinos crave them.)
f) Load up both systems with fish as fast as is safe. Dose bac if you have to on the new tank.
g) Buy buckets of NO3 and PO4 and set up your dosers beforehand. Keep careful measures of nutrients and ALK.
h) Be prepared to apply UV to the affected display tank temporarily.
i) Dry skim. No GFO, no carbon dosing. Run it so dirty your Mom would be disappointed in you.

Points G and H are kinda tricky as to where in my scenario they should be installed. Probably the UV should be on the "new" and the NO3 and PO4 dosing on the "old" where your acros are.

Apologise if this reads bossypants or know-it-all. But I have seen this movie even more times than I have lived it.

Man, I couldn't agree more, I had a 20g sump under my (about) 90 gallon tank and I've been carbon dosing to maintain 4ppm nitrates.. everything looked amazing. I relocated my new sump to the basement 75g tank and a 30g frag tank which was new.. the first week was great for my display. Corals looked amazing water looked clearer. But the frag tank definitly went though all the uglies and still is, dinos, diatoms, sprouts of hair algae. My nutrients bottomed out and I've lost 6 acro's in the last week. Now I stopped the vodka and have to dose nitrates and phosphates to try to stop the problem. I kinda wished I cycled the frag tank with the sump for a few months then tied in the main display.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Man, I couldn't agree more, I had a 20g sump under my (about) 90 gallon tank and I've been carbon dosing to maintain 4ppm nitrates.. everything looked amazing. I relocated my new sump to the basement 75g tank and a 30g frag tank which was new.. the first week was great for my display. Corals looked amazing water looked clearer. But the frag tank definitly went though all the uglies and still is, dinos, diatoms, sprouts of hair algae. My nutrients bottomed out and I've lost 6 acro's in the last week. Now I stopped the vodka and have to dose nitrates and phosphates to try to stop the problem. I kinda wished I cycled the frag tank with the sump for a few months then tied in the main display.

My 90 gallon tank went through a year of ugly algae issues when I first set it up. Same dry rock that I’m using on the new 262.

The waves of weird algae is totally expected.

How old was your main display before connecting it to the new tank?

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

I think it is a good idea. Something that might also help is getting a scoop of sand and piece of rock from the established tank and putting it in the new, just to help speed along. Will you disconnect the new tank once it is cycled to your liking?

 

[brandon429]

if he adds anything directly it will circumvent the water-transmission portion of test

if he does stall though/can't oxidize on day 30 then mixing the two systems will work since the new rock isn't adding new bioload. he could just do this whole combo now, but the 30 day wait tests the fun stuff

 

[troublemaker]

I understand why you want to do it this way, but wouldn’t it be safer to just fill the new tank with water from water changes and not put anything at risk in the current system? If there is in fact bacteria in the water column, it would still transfer over. I’m not telling you not to do this by a long shot, I normally just try to mitigate or at least minimize risks.


Good luck, I look forward to seeing how this goes.

 

[motortrendz]

My 90 gallon tank went through a year of ugly algae issues when I first set it up. Same dry rock that I’m using on the new 262.

The waves of weird algae is totally expected.

How old was your main display before connecting it to the new tank?

3 years old on the main display. Acropora dominant. And was doing amazing. Now all my acros are faded and lost alot of color. And the last week I lost 6 nice sized frags (some say mini colony but eh) slowly stn'd from the base up. (I havent lost one frag in almost a year, not counting doa's)
I believe it was from the sudden nutrient drop in the system from at additional volume and filtration.

 

[Keesers]

This is awesome. Can’t wait to see the results. Please keep it updated at every step. You know what would be cool is to have a senye tester on tracking ammonia in 90 to see on an actually graph. To bad the mind stream didn’t work out that would of also been awesome to see the results of it running. Following along

 

[Tuffloud1]

3 years old on the main display. Acropora dominant. And was doing amazing. Now all my acros are faded and lost alot of color. And the last week I lost 6 nice sized frags (some say mini colony but eh) slowly stn'd from the base up. (I havent lost one frag in almost a year, not counting doa's)
I believe it was from the sudden nutrient drop in the system from at additional volume and filtration.

How long after connecting the 2 did you notice color loss and stn?

 

[motortrendz]

How long after connecting the 2 did you notice color loss and stn?

About 2 weeks.

 

[brandon429]

I would vote based on those inputs do not start with full production lighting after the swap. years ago in the sand rinse thread we began using like-new LED acclimation on the new setups/new home old tanks/ and bleaching stopped fully.

we werent really adding to volume but we certainly were stripping nutrients. we have them rinse 100% of all detritus out of the system, and tap rinse the sandbed to total clarity...the new system is missing all of its nutrient stores.

so if dilution is a concern light intensity needs to be matched and lowered in new system.

another reason I like this: not any reef started or aged is harmed by using ramp up lighting, its a cloudy week on the reef not a big deal to try such a safe option.

very nice to know about these bleaching events they're related it sounds to patterns we've seen in the sand rinse thread on 5th year.

 

[Tuffloud1]

About 2 weeks.

Thanks, I will closely monitor NO3 and PO4 to avoid starvation.

 

[ScottB]

Thanks, I will closely monitor NO3 and PO4 to avoid starvation.

Unless your PO4 is very high (which I know it is not) you should not dose NO3 alone. Raise PO4 first, not second.

I am not surprised that @motortrendz had two weeks of deferred reaction. That is how long it took for the last little bit of rock-stored PO4 to be consumed and the acros to expel their zoox. And while this was going on (rapid nutrition reduction) the dinos started to party hard. Been there. Fun times!

 

[Tuffloud1]

Unless your PO4 is very high (which I know it is not) you should not dose NO3 alone. Raise PO4 first, not second.

I am not surprised that @motortrendz had two weeks of deferred reaction. That is how long it took for the last little bit of rock-stored PO4 to be consumed and the acros to expel their zoox. And while this was going on (rapid nutrition reduction) the dinos started to party hard. Been there. Fun times!

I hear ya!

Current PO4 level on the 90 is 0.16 ppm which is running high for me but Acros are doing great.

Diluting with 260 gallons of additional new saltwater will reduce the PO4 down in the .01 range I would guess.

I will definitely dose NO3 and PO4 in balance as needed.

 

[motortrendz]

I wish I would have realized it during my build out. I thought about it but then kept on moving. Now I'm doing everything I can to get it back. Today my corals seemed a little happier. Nut I'm still waiting on the nitrate mix to get here tomorrow so I can start doing that. I did notice a small spot of dinos in the main tank this am.. may have to set up a uv

 

[Tuffloud1]

Finished plumbing the two systems together.

Excuse the mess, the return plumbing to the 90 is very sloppy because it is only temporary.

Eventually the 90 livestock/rock will be transferred over to the 262 and the 90 will be replaced with a frag tank.

The returns for the frag tank will have to be redone anyway, at that point, I will clean up for the permanent connection and build stand/cabinetry around the plumbing.

 

[Tuffloud1]

I tested the ammonia after 2 days of filling the new tank and mixing salt.

Ammonia reads 0

 

[brandon429]

That is undeniably clear, zero, im a biased doubter of all ammonia tests but that is indeed zero lol

mighty nice calibration run. All your animals are doing fine in the main tank, no fish misbehavior from free ammonia burning, open corals, you have biology confirming your test kit. That’s a nice kit man

do you have an api ammonia kit to test with only for comparison

if not np, don’t get one lol

 

[Tuffloud1]

Established 90 gallon tank readings:

Alk - 8.5
NO3 - 5 ppm
PO4 - .16

 

[Tuffloud1]

2 systems have been connected.

I will retest parameters later today.

 

[piranhaman00]

2 systems have been connected.

I will retest parameters later today.

Good luck! Keep on eye on PO4 for sure, hope it goes well!