Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

[Tuffloud1]

After connecting systems:

Sps slightly sliming

Alk 8.9

Nitrate dropped to undetectable

PO4 dropped to .015

Dosed 1 teaspoon potassium nitrate which brought NO3 back up to 5 ppm

 

[Keesers]

After connecting systems:

Sps slightly sliming

Alk 8.9

Nitrate dropped to undetectable

PO4 dropped to .015

Dosed 1 teaspoon potassium nitrate which brought NO3 back up to 5 ppm

Out of curiosity since I think this is awesome and following along. Question Would it do any good to just ghost feed the new tank I know they are connected but my keep your no3 and po4 up.

 

[Gree23849]

If you folks have not seen @Tuffloud1 build thread do so. It is awesome!

A couple thoughts/prognostications:
a) Should not be a cycle. Will be a very typical, dry setup, uglies phase.
b) Biggest risk is to the 90G acros struggling with nutrient deficiency. Big risk IMO.
c) Next biggest risk is dinoflagellates, but they will only inhabit the new tank, not the old one. Still, they will strip the nutrient out of the water, contributing to risk # b.

If any of you have spent as much time in the Dino thread as me, you've likely watched me go through this scenario. Three times. Every. Single. Time that I added a tank to an existing system it broke out with dinos (ostreopsis thankfully).

Here is what I would do:
a) Plumb it for the long term. Absurd not to connect these two gorgeous tanks.
b) Plumb it for the short term also (with isolating gate valves. Sorry, extra work.) **edit** I see u planned already for this
c) Run them as separate systems, but transfer over some rock, sand, whatever media you can spare to the sterile tank.
d) I don't know your stance on WCs, but once a week I would open the valves to run them as combined for, say an hour.
e) Feed the living daylights out of your 90. You just did a 100% WC. (I would skip Aminos as dinos crave them.)
f) Load up both systems with fish as fast as is safe. Dose bac if you have to on the new tank.
g) Buy buckets of NO3 and PO4 and set up your dosers beforehand. Keep careful measures of nutrients and ALK.
h) Be prepared to apply UV to the affected display tank temporarily.
i) Dry skim. No GFO, no carbon dosing. Run it so dirty your Mom would be disappointed in you.

Points G and H are kinda tricky as to where in my scenario they should be installed. Probably the UV should be on the "new" and the NO3 and PO4 dosing on the "old" where your acros are.

Apologise if this reads bossypants or know-it-all. But I have seen this movie even more times than I have lived it.

I'm following this thread because I plan to install a FOWLR 240 gallon near my reef 240 gallon. The plan is to use one filter system. I'm no expert but.....

If I were to do a typical water change for my established reef tank (30%) and use the old reef water for the FOWLR set up with new caribsea sand (or should I mix it with some of the established reef sand?), with matured coral-less rock from the mature reef tank, could that possibly work? Adding only 30% of the water change water from the reef tank at a time, maybe every 2 - 3 weeks? Assuming there are no inhabitants and decent circulation in the FOWLR and using the matured rock? Or should I be thinking something else...

I was thinking this way I wouldn't be adding 240 gallons of new water to a connected system, and it would give the bacteria time to settle to the new media for the 3 weeks I'd be waiting for the next water change

 

[ScottB]

After connecting systems:

Sps slightly sliming

Alk 8.9

Nitrate dropped to undetectable

PO4 dropped to .015

Dosed 1 teaspoon potassium nitrate which brought NO3 back up to 5 ppm

We are thinking of you and wishing you luck. But please don't make me raise my voice ABOUT DUMPING A BUNCH OF PHOSPHATE IN THERE PRONTO!

Sorry, that was the keyboard, not me. Your sticks looked real happy at, I think you said .16.

+ Your ALK didn't bump up too much, that is good. I probably should have suggested you buffer the new water to match the 8.5 ALK in the established but that swing is probably OK.

+To be safer, you might reset your lights to acclimation, like 60% of what they were, but can be a short period of acclimation like 2-3 weeks.

+Stop dosing 2-Part or shut CaRx as your consumption is most likely going to plummet.

+Dirty up the water best you can. But don't use aminos. Skimmate should be released.

 

[Tuffloud1]

We are thinking of you and wishing you luck. But please don't make me raise my voice ABOUT DUMPING A BUNCH OF PHOSPHATE IN THERE PRONTO!

Sorry, that was the keyboard, not me. Your sticks looked real happy at, I think you said .16.

+ Your ALK didn't bump up too much, that is good. I probably should have suggested you buffer the new water to match the 8.5 ALK in the established but that swing is probably OK.

+To be safer, you might reset your lights to acclimation, like 60% of what they were, but can be a short period of acclimation like 2-3 weeks.

+Stop dosing 2-Part or shut CaRx as your consumption is most likely going to plummet.

+Dirty up the water best you can. But don't use aminos. Skimmate should be released.

Keep the feedback coming!

I’m testing multiple times a day. So far the alk is rock solid throughout 3 tests.

I was expecting a drop in PO4 from the dilution which I wanted a little lower but I’m watching it like a hawk.

Yep, I set my Orpheks down to acclimation mode.

Feeding fish like crazy.

 

[ScottB]

I'm following this thread because I plan to install a FOWLR 240 gallon near my reef 240 gallon. The plan is to use one filter system. I'm no expert but.....

If I were to do a typical water change for my established reef tank (30%) and use the old reef water for the FOWLR set up with new caribsea sand (or should I mix it with some of the established reef sand?), with matured coral-less rock from the mature reef tank, could that possibly work? Adding only 30% of the water change water from the reef tank at a time, maybe every 2 - 3 weeks? Assuming there are no inhabitants and decent circulation in the FOWLR and using the matured rock? Or should I be thinking something else...

I was thinking this way I wouldn't be adding 240 gallons of new water to a connected system, and it would give the bacteria time to settle to the new media for the 3 weeks I'd be waiting for the next water change

- Various opinions about how much bacteria the water really holds. Certainly there is some. Moving over additional media, rock, substrate should help too. Ghost feed it if you keep it separated for longer.

- A second advantage is that the water parameters will be better matched than all new salt water. Some salts (like IORC and RS Pro) mix super high in ALK.

- Anything you can do to have the grand total water volume parameters match with the existing system -- nutrients included -- should be the goal if you are keeping SPS. Even some LPS can fall ill from significant shifts.

I would not care that much for what the new tank goes through. It just has to do its ugly thing for a while. I try to predict and preempt as much as possible the effects of:
a) the initial dilution (ALK, nutrients, other?)
b) the collateral effects of those early ugly phases that so often seem to involve dinos.

Personally, I have not been entirely successful but have gotten incrementally better each time. Maybe my fourth try will be charmed. I look forward to learning from YOUR successes. The more we keep this discussion going, the more people will contribute to our learning.

 

[ScottB]

Keep the feedback coming!

I’m testing multiple times a day. So far the alk is rock solid throughout 3 tests.

I was expecting a drop in PO4 from the dilution which I wanted a little lower but I’m watching it like a hawk.

Yep, I set my Orpheks down to acclimation mode.

Feeding fish like crazy.

I am arguing with myself about something. (This happens. A lot.)

When to bring the lights up on the NEW tank? The context for the question is avoiding/minimizing a dino outbreak. Dinos crave light and can outcompete anybody in a low nutrient environment with sterile surfaces.

Part of me says keep the lights off for a good spell, until I think there is a sufficient bacterial film developed everywhere, and I have systemwide nutrients dialed in.

Another part of me says that if the dinos are so probable in this adventure (my 100% anecdotal experience to date) then fire up the lights in the NEW so they focus their evil work there, and not where my prized corals are. (Then dose like crazy to try and keep up with their consumption.)

Curious to see how you folks do it. I am torn.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Just tested PO4 this morning.

Went up to .052

Haven’t dosed any Phosphate yet, only dosed Nitrate.

Using Hannah Ultra Low Phosphorus

 

[Tuffloud1]

Major bacterial bloom happening. Water is excessively cloudy. Hard to tell from pictures but my water has never been this cloudy. Likely due to the large amount of NSW. I expect it should clear in 1-2 days. We’ll see.

No signs of RTN/STN.

SPS no longer sliming.

 

[ScottB]

Just tested PO4 this morning.

Went up to .052

Haven’t dosed any Phosphate yet, only dosed Nitrate.

Using Hannah Ultra Low Phosphorus

So your established rock is leaching stored PO4. It will continue to do so until the rock store value is equal to the water concentrations. Hard to guess where that level will be. .10 would be lovely.

 

[Tuffloud1]

So your established rock is leaching stored PO4. It will continue to do so until the rock store value is equal to the water concentrations. Hard to guess where that level will be. .10 would be lovely.

Unless the new rock has phosphate, but who knows.

I can tell you that the best thing I ever did for my tank was when I stopped running gfo and carbon and let the tank do it’s thing. That’s when my SPS started thriving.

 

[brandon429]

Hey was your rock and sand cloudless on setup

curious if that's eliminated then dosing of liquid nutrients can also cause bac blooms. Making a water change will not harm any aspect of the test and can export the bloom. Agreed w Scott above that in-tank curing has these phases, it will be neat to know if the system was physically cloudless at the start due to pre rinse just to exclude that confound.

I would have makeup water ready as an intercept ahead of time though it may not be needed. A UV sterilizer off Amazon for a hundred bucks might be a critical mass arrestor to have handy but water changes do the same, remove oxygen competing bacteria. I recommend permit no clouding during any tank work. Physically make it go away, don't dose things to remove it. Hands on export saves all tanks in the sand rinse thread which is all 100% water changes across jobs, they all have that and cloud control in common.

 

[ScottB]

Unless the new rock has phosphate, but who knows.

I can tell you that the best thing I ever did for my tank was when I stopped running gfo and carbon and let the tank do it’s thing. That’s when my SPS started thriving.

Fish poop is my secret elixir..
.1 - .15 PO4
10 -15 NO3

No algae to be seen as the tangs would devour it. They largely rely on me for any vegetation.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Hey was your rock and sand cloudless on setup

curious if that's eliminated then dosing of liquid nutrients can also cause bac blooms. Making a water change will not harm any aspect of the test and can export the bloom. Agreed w Scott above that in-tank curing has these phases, it will be neat to know if the system was physically cloudless at the start due to pre rinse just to exclude that confound.

New sand was rinsed for hours and new rock was blasted for half an hour until all “milky” color was no longer running. I did this before putting in the new tank.

Both tanks were crystal clear before connecting.

 

[Tuffloud1]

Fish poop is my secret elixir..
.1 - .15 PO4
10 -15 NO3

No algae to be seen as the tangs would devour it. They largely rely on me for any vegetation.

Beautiful tank Scott! Teach me!

 

[ScottB]

Major bacterial bloom happening. Water is excessively cloudy. Hard to tell from pictures but my water has never been this cloudy. Likely due to the large amount of NSW. I expect it should clear in 1-2 days. We’ll see.

No signs of RTN/STN.

SPS no longer sliming.

Somebody around here predicted a bloom. I did not -- or at least not much of one. It does not worry me. But I would be surprised if it lasted beyond your guesstimate.

 

[brandon429]

Ok perfect that allows you to ID the challenger nicely

It's either rock sloughing / suspended particles from curing or its bac bloom/both. Great to see these ideas and preps coming into play!

 

[ScottB]

Beautiful tank Scott! Teach me!

Thanks. It was a selective photo. If you think that looks crowded, the rest of the tank is coral warfare and choked down flow. Some work ahead. Aesthetics will suffer for a while.

 

[brandon429]

Team would you guys continue or cease dosing vibrant considering the small clouding event

When water clarity is challenged I hate to be adding any compounds optionally, especially if they're bac mixtures?

 

[ScottB]

Team would you guys continue or cease dosing vibrant considering the small clouding event

When water clarity is challenged I hate to be adding any compounds optionally, especially if they're bac mixtures?

Personally, I am OK with Vibrant in a maintenance routine. But not in a time of volatility.

My focus would be on oxygenating the water as much as possible to reduce animal stress while the bac colony replicates. I think it populates sufficiently fast on its own. Maybe an ammonia test or two for assurance, but .25 would be no concern.