Considering saltwater... on a budget

[Troylee]

If you do fish only it can be relatively cheap! It’s when you get into corals that it gets expensive with lighting and flow etc. if you just want rocks and fish it can be done cheap….

 

[Tamberav]

Hi all,

I recently lost my ~10yo axolotl and am left with a 40 breeder I plan to overhaul. Not totally decided yet, but saltwater really interests me. I have successfully kept freshwater for the past decade but have no experience with marine. I understand it is much more difficult and expensive, so I may be too ambitious here --- please do tell me if I should just avoid saltwater. I have some limitations but would love to make it work if possible.

Most importantly, I'm on a budget. It's flexible, and since I already have the tank and stand, that frees up money for other expenses. I have college to pay for though, so I want to save as much money as I can. Not a huge deal to me as even if I go freshwater, I'll still be doing some big spending on all-new equipment. I don't mind DIY projects or secondhand purchases where possible.

I also don't really want to install a sump right now. While I'm not opposed to the idea, it seems like a complicated and expensive undertaking. The tank had a "do not drill" sticker at the time of purchase, and my understanding is HOB overflows are A. costly and B. risky. My cabinet has plenty of room for a sump, and I would like to install one eventually, but not right away (unless it's absolutely necessary). I've read 40bs can do okay sumpless and I feel skipping it for now would allow me to spend more on other things, particularly an RO/DI unit.

I would love some input on whether what I want to do here is feasible, if possible. I don't mind the aesthetic drawbacks of a sumpless tank, nor some extra maintenance --- my freshwater tanks are demanding and I'm used to regular cleaning.

If doable, what should my filtration look like? I plan on an HOB skimmer, ideally dry, but if it does back up my floors have seen worse. I expect ~50lbs live rock. I can invest in a canister or a couple HOB power filters depending on which is better. Beyond that, I'm clueless and need some guidance.

Thanks!
Dan

Yes you can do it on a budget.

You can get some jeabo powerheads for flow, smatfarm leds or noop leds, a heater, and rock.

That alone makes a reef. All other filtration is completely optional depending on your bioload of fish and such.

HOB (I like l Seachem tidals) is better than canister as they are easier to maintain.

This is one of my favorite tanks as it is so low tech and beautiful. It is a 75g, no sump, no hob equipment. Just rock, light and flow.

Rock is biological filtration.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wv-reefer’s-75-gallon-big-and-dirty.400080/

 

[GatorGreg]

Here's an honest reply.

You have college coming up, and you're already on a budget.

Test kits alone are going to cost you around $200 before you even get your hands wet.

Wait until later, when you have money and time to invest in what is for most folks a very expensive hobby that takes up a lot of time.

You have other priorities right now.

Bingo

I have a 22g mid range build compared to most on here and I’m easily 2500 without a doubt. Probably more because I’m just counting the big stuff. We’re not even talking livestock yet. That’s just hard goods and rock.

Your three most expensive hurdles are going to be RODI system, Lighting and rock.

it’d almost be worth scaling down your tank size. You’re not saving a whole lot of money by having your 40 breeder and stand. You could go 20g long at petco for 20 bucks and save tremendously on rock and lighting. Also with a 20g you don’t need RODI. You can use distilled water ( after about a year though the RODI would pay for itself so consider that)

the bigger the tank the more it cost.

please don’t use dry rock either because it’s cheaper. There’s a 80 percent chance you’ll be plagued with algae problems and tear the tank down essentially throwing money down the drain. There’s a post here every single day of a new reefer that used dry rock, dry sand and a fishless cycle. Posting about endless problems. There are reefers that do it very successfully. But I can’t and there’s a ton of others that can’t either. Go look at how many build threads from new reefers stop at page 3 and they’re never heard from again. Same chain of events in every one almost

this is just my opinion. I wasted money two times back to back resulting in tear down. 10g and 45g both dry rock fishless cycle

 

[Viking_Reefing]

It all depends on what your end goal is. If you’re ok with something that will probably look janky as hell but you’ll have a good time with (provided you understand the limitations of such a setup) it’s definitely doable.
I started my first tank on a fairly limited budget when I was 13 a couple of decades ago and it did fine for what it was.

However, if your goal is to have a really nice tank to look at, then I’d hold off until you can afford a proper setup.

 

[CoastalTownLayabout]

I remember there was a thread on RC back in the day. Something like ‘Rate my ghetto setup’. Had some classic low budget, DIY systems. Some really good, some hilariously bad.

 

[Budman93]

Hi all,

I recently lost my ~10yo axolotl and am left with a 40 breeder I plan to overhaul. Not totally decided yet, but saltwater really interests me. I have successfully kept freshwater for the past decade but have no experience with marine. I understand it is much more difficult and expensive, so I may be too ambitious here --- please do tell me if I should just avoid saltwater. I have some limitations but would love to make it work if possible.

Most importantly, I'm on a budget. It's flexible, and since I already have the tank and stand, that frees up money for other expenses. I have college to pay for though, so I want to save as much money as I can. Not a huge deal to me as even if I go freshwater, I'll still be doing some big spending on all-new equipment. I don't mind DIY projects or secondhand purchases where possible.

I also don't really want to install a sump right now. While I'm not opposed to the idea, it seems like a complicated and expensive undertaking. The tank had a "do not drill" sticker at the time of purchase, and my understanding is HOB overflows are A. costly and B. risky. My cabinet has plenty of room for a sump, and I would like to install one eventually, but not right away (unless it's absolutely necessary). I've read 40bs can do okay sumpless and I feel skipping it for now would allow me to spend more on other things, particularly an RO/DI unit.

I would love some input on whether what I want to do here is feasible, if possible. I don't mind the aesthetic drawbacks of a sumpless tank, nor some extra maintenance --- my freshwater tanks are demanding and I'm used to regular cleaning.

If doable, what should my filtration look like? I plan on an HOB skimmer, ideally dry, but if it does back up my floors have seen worse. I expect ~50lbs live rock. I can invest in a canister or a couple HOB power filters depending on which is better. Beyond that, I'm clueless and need some guidance.

Thanks!
Dan

I think no matter your limited budget you'd be hard pressed to spend less than a grand no matter how cheap you went.

Livestock $200+ (Could easily be way higher)
cheap wavemaker $30
Salt $40
Cheap hang on back filter $30
Heater $30 (Maybe you have this already?)
Sand $30-50
Lights $100-200
cheap test kit $30
RODI $200-250
Hydrometer/refractometer $15-35
Miscellaneous Equipment supplies $50-100 (Buckets, glass scraper, gloves, any fittings you need to buy to hookup RODI, etc)
Fish Food $30-50
40ish pounds of dry rock $100+ (If you are just starting out id reccomend you buy a couple pieces of live rock to seed your dry rock which is more expensive.)

Thats bare minimum and im probably forgetting something. You filtration might be an issue but you could always get a hangon back Protein skimmer whichwill be additional cost. If that's ok then I'd say go for it.

 

[NCcoastalreefer]

Don't let everyone scare you on the outrageous amounts of money they have spent on their tanks, it's totally doable to have a fun low tech 40. Seems to be the more I read on here the more you see that everyone says you need to have thousands of dollars in unnecessary gear. I started a 40 mixed reef with a 40 breeder, an aquaclear hob filter and jeboa powerheads. I have since gone from a 40 to a 75 and now a 220. For lighting I have had very good success with cheap Chinese black boxes(mars aqua, and now viparspectra) here is the progression of me being in the reef hobby, 40, 75 and lastly my 220.

 

[James Bardwell]

Stick with fresh, about 10x cheaper and much less maintenance, I say that as someone who has about 500 gal of salt and about the same fresh

 

[Tamberav]

I do not test my soft coral tank, I do not even own a Ca and Mg kit anymore. I stopped testing those even with a mixed tank since they never changed and I dosed ESV off alk.

Sanjay's 29g softy tank is 23 yr old (in 2017) with no skimmer. Did a water change 5 years ago, no carbon, nothing.

You can always have a saltwater tank on a budget. Just match your stocking to your budget and time.

 

[doubleshot00]

You can defiantly do it on a budget but you wont

I would defiantly do fish only for 4-6 months just to see hoe it goes and try to get coraline to grow as best i can.

Canister filter or HOB will be around $50-150 I would go canister as they are more quiet.
Amazon wavemaker $30
Ehiem heater $30
Rock look locally for someone getting rid of rock $100
Lights Nicrew $150-200
Buy the salt water locally or get an RODI from Amazon
Cup of RODI water 2x a day for top off.
Get a RedSea master test kit from Ebay $50-60
Salifert PO4 test kit from amazon $16
Refractometer get a good one and don't mess with the cheapos. I learned the hard way on this one. Or just get a Hyrdrometer.

 

[Lineatus]

Eh, I think a budget reef is very possible. People are over reacting a little with their budgets imo. Light, quality live rock and flow is all you need if you have the dedication to keep up with maintenance.

the smaller you go the cheaper as well, if your on a shoe string I’d downsize from a 40b.

I was in the exact same situation as you a few years back and made it work. I’d get a 15 g tank (£20), second hand AI prime or similar (£140), a small wave maker (£40), heater if needed (£20), live rock (not familiar with the price these days), salt (£60).

then fill the tank with cheap frags and a single fish (can cost as much or as little as you like, just shop around).

an RO unit isn’t necessary with a tank this size, just get distilled water or RO from your lfs. It’s a pain but gets rid of any upfront costs. Then your upkeep is relatively cheap, just a few quid every week on water and food.

test kits are over rated in tanks with easy to keep corals, I see no need for that investment.

with weekly water changes and daily manual top offs you can make a low tech system easily work. Consistency is key, be careful with burn out.

 

[NCcoastalreefer]

I think starting low tech, low budget makes a better experience in the hobby overall.I started in this hobby when I had to scrape together money to buy things but, I enjoyed the heck out of it. Diy projects and constantly changing/adapting tanks are what make this fun for me. I would have been bored of this hobby long ago if i had all the money to buy all the high tech equipment from the beginning. I have had reef tanks for the past 8 or so years and have just now started using a protein skimmer(most on here think its the second most essential piece of equipment) Start slow and enjoy it its NOT that hard!

 

[PotatoPig]

Maybe (probably) I'm missing something, but it seems like an enormous amount of additional hardware and setup. The overflow box alone is $200 and the more crap I have to assemble, the more likely I am to do something wrong and flood my house. I also hear they're really loud --- I would honestly much prefer daily maintenance over constant noise. I am really apprehensive about the flood risk as well because that seems like a pretty common issue with HOB overflows, and I've seen a number of posts here recommending against them.

The cost is the big thing though. As of this moment, I just can't justify an extra several hundred dollars on equipment that's more convenience than necessity, especially when that equipment has a high chance of failure. I want to be able to afford my filtration first and foremost because I figure a sump can be added later. For the cost of just the overflow (maybe even less) I could get an RO/DI unit, which I would much rather have until I can comfortably afford a sump. If I really can't get away without one I'm just going to have to stick with fresh.

In terms of a HOB flood risk:
If you do a sump you should set it up so the return pump is behind a baffle that limits how much water it actually has access to. Should the drain fail it’ll just pump a few gallons into the tank and then run dry. Not great, but not something you’re going to need to call your insurance company for. The bigger risk is siphons back to the sump when you turn the pump off, and for this you need to make sure you have adequate spare capacity in the sump to contain water siphoned down until the return head hits air. This is less complex than it sounds.

That said - I’m trying this on a budget too and running a FOWLR, which is about as budget as you can get. If $200 for a HOB is unacceptable then this might be something you put on hold until graduation and go with hardier and much more economical freshwater. Costs will add up very fast. Even buying dry rock you’re probably looking at ~$200 for rock, then there’s salt, you’re going to want a RODI system (another $150 or so this will pay for itself vs buying water from a store in about 3-6 months), power heads for circulation are another $100 or so at the low end, then you’re looking at testing kits and other ancillary items - realistically expect another $100-200 on this, you can skip lights in a FOWLR if you have a hood or room lights you’re happy with. So expect somewhere in the region of $500ish +/- $100 from where you are now, after that the absolute cheapest fish are $20 a piece, rapidly going up to ~$50 a piece for fairly basic fish livestock, and a *lot* of these saltwater fish are highly particular and die very easy in an aquarium.

 

[Magnapinna]

If you do fish only it can be relatively cheap! It’s when you get into corals that it gets expensive with lighting and flow etc. if you just want rocks and fish it can be done cheap….

This is what I've inferred so far. I would love corals eventually, but right now I'm happy with fish only. Expanding later on might be tedious but I want to start small first anyways in case the hobby isn't right for me.

 

[Magnapinna]

Yes you can do it on a budget.

You can get some jeabo powerheads for flow, smatfarm leds or noop leds, a heater, and rock.

That alone makes a reef. All other filtration is completely optional depending on your bioload of fish and such.

HOB (I like l Seachem tidals) is better than canister as they are easier to maintain.

This is one of my favorite tanks as it is so low tech and beautiful. It is a 75g, no sump, no hob equipment. Just rock, light and flow.

Rock is biological filtration.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wv-reefer’s-75-gallon-big-and-dirty.400080/

Wow, I knew the rock is bio filtration, but I had no idea you didn't need all sorts of extra mechanical filtration. Research has been difficult because there's been so much stuff to read about. Great to know about the canisters, I've heard they can be a pain. With axolotls, I have to clean my HOBs all the time, so I certainly don't mind that. Would two HOBs be better than one? I don't mind the look.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Tamberav]

Wow, I knew the rock is bio filtration, but I had no idea you didn't need all sorts of extra mechanical filtration. Research has been difficult because there's been so much stuff to read about. Great to know about the canisters, I've heard they can be a pain. With axolotls, I have to clean my HOBs all the time, so I certainly don't mind that. Would two HOBs be better than one? I don't mind the look.

Thanks for the advice!

Yes, there are about 10000x different ways to run a reef from very bare bones to super advanced.

It might be marginally better. Basically you can use them to run something like carbon but you have floss on the top to catch the debris, toss the floss every few days and replace. Don't bother with sponges or such.

 

[Magnapinna]

In terms of a HOB flood risk:
If you do a sump you should set it up so the return pump is behind a baffle that limits how much water it actually has access to. Should the drain fail it’ll just pump a few gallons into the tank and then run dry. Not great, but not something you’re going to need to call your insurance company for. The bigger risk is siphons back to the sump when you turn the pump off, and for this you need to make sure you have adequate spare capacity in the sump to contain water siphoned down until the return head hits air. This is less complex than it sounds.

That said - I’m trying this on a budget too and running a FOWLR, which is about as budget as you can get. If $200 for a HOB is unacceptable then this might be something you put on hold until graduation and go with hardier and much more economical freshwater. Costs will add up very fast. Even buying dry rock you’re probably looking at ~$200 for rock, then there’s salt, you’re going to want a RODI system (another $150 or so this will pay for itself vs buying water from a store in about 3-6 months), power heads for circulation are another $100 or so at the low end, then you’re looking at testing kits and other ancillary items - realistically expect another $100-200 on this, you can skip lights in a FOWLR if you have a hood or room lights you’re happy with. So expect somewhere in the region of $500ish +/- $100 from where you are now, after that the absolute cheapest fish are $20 a piece, rapidly going up to ~$50 a piece for fairly basic fish livestock, and a *lot* of these saltwater fish are highly particular and die very easy in an aquarium.

The $500 ballpark is just as much -- if not a little less -- than what I expect to spend on the alternative, which is an elaborate, fully planted freshwater scape. I'm not afraid to spend some money! The $200 overflow doesn't scare me on its own; it's the horror stories about failures, seemingly complicated setup, and the fact I feel the money could go towards more essential pieces of equipment right now. I would plan on adding a sump & overflow later anyways but I'll be honest, I can't even really figure out what a sump does, other than store equipment. Aesthetics and conveniences aren't my main focus right now.

 

[Troylee]

The $500 ballpark is just as much -- if not a little less -- than what I expect to spend on the alternative, which is an elaborate, fully planted freshwater scape. I'm not afraid to spend some money! The $200 overflow doesn't scare me on its own; it's the horror stories about failures, seemingly complicated setup, and the fact I feel the money could go towards more essential pieces of equipment right now. I would plan on adding a sump & overflow later anyways but I'll be honest, I can't even really figure out what a sump does, other than store equipment. Aesthetics and conveniences aren't my main focus right now.

Pretty much sums up a sump lol… it’s added water volume for more stability and hides all your equipment and filtration.. it’s not essential in a reef tank but makes thing easier as a skimmer is a big plus.. again they have hang on back ones if you really wanted one. Fish with a canister has worked for years and will be just fine.. at worst you’ll see your nitrates go up and that’s just an indication to clean your filters out.

 

[Magnapinna]

Yes, there are about 10000x different ways to run a reef from very bare bones to super advanced.

It might be marginally better. Basically you can use them to run something like carbon but you have floss on the top to catch the debris, toss the floss every few days and replace. Don't bother with sponges or such.

I've read about sponges, they turn into nitrate factories in my 'lotl tanks too. I'll do some more reading about filtration because it seems like there are a lot of opinions. I tend to prefer running lower-tech setups, but I don't like pushing too hard on sensitive tanks. I plan on understocking the tank too, at least to start.

I want to get something more powerful, but I already have an Aquaclear 50. Could I use it for anything on this tank? If not I may move it to my 20gal.

 

[Troylee]

I've read about sponges, they turn into nitrate factories in my 'lotl tanks too. I'll do some more reading about filtration because it seems like there are a lot of opinions. I tend to prefer running lower-tech setups, but I don't like pushing too hard on sensitive tanks. I plan on understocking the tank too, at least to start.

I want to get something more powerful, but I already have an Aquaclear 50. Could I use it for anything on this tank? If not I may move it to my 20gal.

You could take any of your fresh water setups and change the floor substrate and throw a couple live rocks in with salt water and be done honestly… the only catch to that is keeping up with your water changes on a hob filter etc. how much work you wanna put in is the question haha.