Considering saltwater... on a budget

[Magnapinna]

Pretty much sums up a sump lol… it’s added water volume for more stability and hides all your equipment and filtration.. it’s not essential in a reef tank but makes thing easier as a skimmer is a big plus.. again they have hang on back ones if you really wanted one. Fish with a canister has worked for years and will be just fine.. at worst you’ll see your nitrates go up and that’s just an indication to clean your filters out.

I'm in no big hurry, so I'll spend some more time researching sump setups. Maybe I will decide I want one, but more money for immediate essentials upfront is a huge plus. A HOB/canister is something I can always repurpose, so no sunk cost there. I've found some reasonably priced HOB skimmers and know some people who may want it when I'm done.

 

[Magnapinna]

You could take any of your fresh water setups and change the floor substrate and throw a couple live rocks in with salt water and be done honestly… the only catch to that is keeping up with your water changes on a hob filter etc. how much work you wanna put in is the question haha.

For all I've heard about how hard saltwater is, I'm honestly really surprised. Then again I've heard axolotls are supposedly really difficult too, but I think they're about as easy as it gets. Personally I enjoy cleaning my tanks! I like being involved and hands-on. I'd be more worried about it stressing the fish than anything

 

[PotatoPig]

The $500 ballpark is just as much -- if not a little less -- than what I expect to spend on the alternative, which is an elaborate, fully planted freshwater scape. I'm not afraid to spend some money! The $200 overflow doesn't scare me on its own; it's the horror stories about failures, seemingly complicated setup, and the fact I feel the money could go towards more essential pieces of equipment right now. I would plan on adding a sump & overflow later anyways but I'll be honest, I can't even really figure out what a sump does, other than store equipment. Aesthetics and conveniences aren't my main focus right now.

Fair enough. The main benefits of a sump are moving all your life support gear out of sight, added filter options, space for a refugium (if needed for your fish goals - eg very handy for a mandarin dragonet, or for things like chaeto), added water volume for added stability and some ease of maintenance for water changes and similar.

 

[Troylee]

For all I've heard about how hard saltwater is, I'm honestly really surprised. Then again I've heard axolotls are supposedly really difficult too, but I think they're about as easy as it gets. Personally I enjoy cleaning my tanks! I like being involved and hands-on. I'd be more worried about it stressing the fish than anything

Keeping a saltwater fish tank is not hard at all.. a reef tank can be tricky at times with dosing etc but just fish is no different than fresh water in my opinion..

 

[Magnapinna]

You can get an all in one kit for a 40b for about 150.

I've thought about that! Aside from neatness, is there any benefit to an AIO versus just HOB?

 

[Magnapinna]

Keeping a saltwater fish tank is not hard at all.. a reef tank can be tricky at times with dosing etc but just fish is no different than fresh water in my opinion..

Thanks so much for your help! Really encouraging, I'm a lot less intimidated now.

 

[Magnapinna]

If you’re happy to start out with run of the mill soft corals and a few fish you don’t need to spend a lot of money. Something like the XP Aqua Sumpless ATO, some decent live rock, a wave maker and an AI Blade will get you in the game and learning the ropes.

Perfectly happy with this --- if I can keep some soft corals, that's even a bonus as I planned on fish only. Learning the ropes is all I want to do before I spend a fortune on a hobby that isn't for me. I have a feeling I'll really enjoy it though, always been a big ocean lover.

 

[Magnapinna]

To start out fish only with live rock (fowlr):

wave maker
HOB filter
Cover w/ light (or a cover and find someone with a used t5 fixture for a good price)
Heater
Live rock (or dry)
Sand
Salifert or Red Sea test kits (ammonia and nitrate)
RO/DI
Refractometer (a good one, I went cheap and it works, but if I was doing it over I’d get a good one to start)
Bottled back (microbactr 7 or 9, dr time, or I have used seachem stability)(only if you are skipping the cycle and putting fish in after the first week)

Later on, a skimmer would be useful and I made a hob refugium too.

Good food is essential for healthy fish, I’m still learning how to get them to eat it though

And stay away from fresh water stuff if possible

I think all told, I did all that with my original 20g long for under $500, but closer to $300… if I remember correctly. I made a mistake buying the API test kits first, go with Red Sea or Salifert for budget and to start you only need amonia and nitrate, I’ve never read nitrites on my tank (ever ) but other people have, but Jay says insalt water nitrites are not toxic unless crazy high.

edit: abov price included tank

Sounds great! $500 is a very comfortable amount for me. I plan on live rock & a HOB skimmer from the start, and I plan to cycle the tank. I would like a HOB refugium but I've heard varying opinions on their usefulness due to small size.

I'm a little confused about the RO/DI system. Lots of options and I don't really know which to choose, some seem far cheaper than others but I don't know how they'd work. Any suggestions?

 

[Magnapinna]

Bingo

I have a 22g mid range build compared to most on here and I’m easily 2500 without a doubt. Probably more because I’m just counting the big stuff. We’re not even talking livestock yet. That’s just hard goods and rock.

Your three most expensive hurdles are going to be RODI system, Lighting and rock.

it’d almost be worth scaling down your tank size. You’re not saving a whole lot of money by having your 40 breeder and stand. You could go 20g long at petco for 20 bucks and save tremendously on rock and lighting. Also with a 20g you don’t need RODI. You can use distilled water ( after about a year though the RODI would pay for itself so consider that)

the bigger the tank the more it cost.

please don’t use dry rock either because it’s cheaper. There’s a 80 percent chance you’ll be plagued with algae problems and tear the tank down essentially throwing money down the drain. There’s a post here every single day of a new reefer that used dry rock, dry sand and a fishless cycle. Posting about endless problems. There are reefers that do it very successfully. But I can’t and there’s a ton of others that can’t either. Go look at how many build threads from new reefers stop at page 3 and they’re never heard from again. Same chain of events in every one almost

this is just my opinion. I wasted money two times back to back resulting in tear down. 10g and 45g both dry rock fishless cycle

I mean, I'm not on a shoestring budget haha. I just want to save money for absolute essentials. I can comfortably spend up to $800 at the current moment and maybe a bit more. The more I can save, though, the better. I do not plan on corals right now.

I had plans for live rock, not dry, and live sand. As I understand these will be a huge part of my filtration and are one of the things I won't cut corners on. I did plan on a fishless cycle though, and will change that plan if fish-in/bottled bacteria is better.

Now, the tank size... there's an interesting idea. I have a 20 long. My axolotl is in there and I considered moving him to the 40. I thought the 40 may be better due to increased volume & much larger footprint. I planned on understocking my 40 though anyways... if others think this may be worthwhile I could totally do it. The stand is small with no cabinet but I can easily build a new one.

 

[Magnapinna]

For starters you could try a fish only with live rock system (FOWLR). It would be as simple as possible to use good old over the back filters (same ones used for freshwater) for your mechanical filtration and the sand and live rock for the chemical filtration. You could use freshwater lighting until you decide if want corals, then you would have to upgrade. The must haves are a refractometer, good NON API test kits for phosphates and Nitrates, access to rodi/distilled water (can buy a cheap rodi unit?) and maybe seachem ammonia badge to get you through the cycle. And of course salt…OH!… and patients.

I don't plan on corals right now and don't know when I will. Upgrades are no worries, I sell stuff secondhand and upgrade all the time. Any ideas of a reasonably priced RO/DI unit? I don't mind the cost of those so much as I just don't know which to use.

 

[Magnapinna]

Here's an honest reply.

You have college coming up, and you're already on a budget.

Test kits alone are going to cost you around $200 before you even get your hands wet.

Wait until later, when you have money and time to invest in what is for most folks a very expensive hobby that takes up a lot of time.

You have other priorities right now.

I'm over halfway done with college and my tuition is cheap! I have all the time in the world. My budget is flexible and I will be spending a good few hundred dollars on this tank either way. Any freshwater setup I do will be very involved, likely heavily planted and will probably not be much cheaper, if at all. And will also take a ton of time and maintenance.

Really I just don't want to spend unnecessary hundreds extra upfront when that money could buy me higher-quality essentials. Nor do I want to bite off more than I can chew. My limitations are there but not really that extreme, and would probably be no different if I weren't in college

 

[Magnapinna]

It all depends on what your end goal is. If you’re ok with something that will probably look janky as hell but you’ll have a good time with (provided you understand the limitations of such a setup) it’s definitely doable.
I started my first tank on a fairly limited budget when I was 13 a couple of decades ago and it did fine for what it was.

However, if your goal is to have a really nice tank to look at, then I’d hold off until you can afford a proper setup.

Ha! I'm okay with janky. None of my tanks are exceptionally brilliant. I love them anyways. I'm a marine bio guy, the life interests me more than the display. I'd be very happy just keeping a few healthy fish until I'm ready to expand.

 

[Fort Salty]

I think the secret to doing it on a budget is just taking your time. The biggest cost is going to be rock and livestock, as far as I can tell. I have a single Viparspectra over my tank (36x12x18 or so) and I get by with that. You probably don't need a skimmer when you are starting, and can pick it up as you go. You probably only need nitrate and phos tests as well as something to measure salinity.

As far as hob overflows, I think it is generally pretty safe. I have an eShopps hob and there is no issue shutting off power to the tank and losing siphon. You just need to tune your return to match the overflow rate. I have a ball valve to adjust mine. Then you should not have to worry about air building up.

I don't know your college plans in terms of moving back and forth, but that is something to take into consideration as well. It is not a small task moving everything over you are up and running.

FS

 

[Magnapinna]

I think the secret to doing it on a budget is just taking your time. The biggest cost is going to be rock and livestock, as far as I can tell. I have a single Viparspectra over my tank (36x12x18 or so) and I get by with that. You probably don't need a skimmer when you are starting, and can pick it up as you go. You probably only need nitrate and phos tests as well as something to measure salinity.

As far as hob overflows, I think it is generally pretty safe. I have an eShopps hob and there is no issue shutting off power to the tank and losing siphon. You just need to tune your return to match the overflow rate. I have a ball valve to adjust mine. Then you should not have to worry about air building up.

I don't know your college plans in terms of moving back and forth, but that is something to take into consideration as well. It is not a small task moving everything over you are up and running.

FS

I am over halfway done with my degree! My transportation & housing is all sorted, or I wouldn't be thinking about a new tank at all. I have 4 other tanks... I don't even want to think about it lol. I also know I will have daily access to it and plenty of time for maintenance.

Good to know about the skimmer, I'll look more into that. There are some affordable options at my LFS so no big deal either way.

Someone else said I may want to consider downsizing to a 20gal. I thought about redoing my 20 long but I liked the bigger volume + footprint of the 40. It would help me with the costs of rock and lighting though... I planned on understocking the 40 anyways so would the 20 be a better choice? I know people keep nano tanks, but I don't know if the downgrade would be worth it.

 

[GatorGreg]

Don't let everyone scare you on the outrageous amounts of money they have spent on their tanks, it's totally doable to have a fun low tech 40. Seems to be the more I read on here the more you see that everyone says you need to have thousands of dollars in unnecessary gear. I started a 40 mixed reef with a 40 breeder, an aquaclear hob filter and jeboa powerheads. I have since gone from a 40 to a 75 and now a 220. For lighting I have had very good success with cheap Chinese black boxes(mars aqua, and now viparspectra) here is the progression of me being in the reef hobby, 40, 75 and lastly my 220.

You have left out the most expensive parts that OP will need. OP has nothing for saltwater. You left out ROCK, RODI and Livestock. Test kits, miscellaneous supplies etc. you way minimized this lol. No one here recommended anything besides the basics.

 

[Magnapinna]

I think no matter your limited budget you'd be hard pressed to spend less than a grand no matter how cheap you went.

Livestock $200+ (Could easily be way higher)
cheap wavemaker $30
Salt $40
Cheap hang on back filter $30
Heater $30 (Maybe you have this already?)
Sand $30-50
Lights $100-200
cheap test kit $30
RODI $200-250
Hydrometer/refractometer $15-35
Miscellaneous Equipment supplies $50-100 (Buckets, glass scraper, gloves, any fittings you need to buy to hookup RODI, etc)
Fish Food $30-50
40ish pounds of dry rock $100+ (If you are just starting out id reccomend you buy a couple pieces of live rock to seed your dry rock which is more expensive.)

Thats bare minimum and im probably forgetting something. You filtration might be an issue but you could always get a hangon back Protein skimmer whichwill be additional cost. If that's ok then I'd say go for it.

This doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all. I can try to find some things secondhand, and I already have a lot of miscellaneous equipment lying around. I don't plan on any ambitious stocking to start with, nor any corals, but my LFS is reasonably priced. Much of what you've listed I've already found affordable options for. I'm not suffocating for money, just looking to save on what I can I'd also like to familiarize myself a little with keeping saltwater fish before I get into a more involved setup. More cleanup at that expense is fine by me. Maintenance expenses like salt aren't a big deal at all compared to upfront setup costs.

 

[Magnapinna]

You have left out the most expensive parts that OP will need. OP has nothing for saltwater. You left out ROCK, RODI and Livestock. Test kits, miscellaneous supplies etc. you way minimized this lol. No one here recommended anything besides the basics.

These are all things I've thought about and actually need the least advice on Do need help with choosing the right RO/DI system however. Someone said I wouldn't need one if I downgrade to a 20gal? Regardless, I would rather buy the unit upfront than buy water all the time.

Rock is a top priority, cost of salt is easy, more worried about a functional tank than a crazy amount of livestock and I don't plan on corals either. Plenty of people have mentioned testing supplies, and I have an enormous amount of miscellaneous equipment not currently in use.

Honestly, my biggest question marks right now are the RO/DI unit and filtration. Also wondering if I should downgrade to my 20 long, but I know nothing about the pros vs. cons

 

[GatorGreg]

The people minimizing the cost are probably reefers who have multiple tanks and hobby things laying around that they take for granted because they’ve been in for years . Things that you’re going to have to buy. 15-20 dollar here’s and there’s add up very quickly. Keep in mind you’re starting from scratch. Can you get started in your budget you listed? Absolutely. Will you almost immediately be unsatisfied and be spending more money? Absolutely. There’s things you’re going to find that you need that you’re not even thinking about right now.

I’m not trying to discourage you. Please don’t think I am. I’m just saying you need to have your expectations in line. I’ve spent more than your entire budget on corals and fish alone. They’re not even anything special either. Many wouldn’t even blink an eye at the corals I have. They’re just meh. You’re stocking a 40g too. The little finger nail pieces of coral most people sell today isn’t going to fill your tank well and satisfy you.

it’s just reality

 

[Magnapinna]

The people minimizing the cost are probably reefers who have multiple tanks and hobby things laying around that they take for granted because they’ve been in for years . Things that you’re going to have to buy. 15-20 dollar here’s and there’s add up very quickly. Keep in mind you’re starting from scratch. Can you get started in your budget you listed? Absolutely. Will you almost immediately be unsatisfied and be spending more money? Absolutely. There’s things you’re going to find that you need that you’re not even thinking about right now.

I’m not trying to discourage you. Please don’t think I am. I’m just saying you need to have your expectations in line. I’ve spent more than your entire budget on corals and fish alone. They’re not even anything special either. Many wouldn’t even blink an eye at the corals I have. They’re just meh. You’re stocking a 40g too. The little finger nail pieces of coral most people sell today isn’t going to fill your tank well and satisfy you.

it’s just reality

With all due respect, I think you're overestimating my expectations --- and my limitations. Future expansion and maintenance costs aren't really my concern at all; don't even have a fixed budget, I just don't want to spend thousands upfront on a hobby I have no prior experience with, on equipment I can do without at the cost of convenience or looks. No corals either until I'm more familiar with keeping saltwater. I don't want to bite off more than I can chew at first, money aside. A starting point is all I want/need.

Honestly, I don't care if the tank looks junky. I don't want it to look like a scrap heap but none of my tanks are really spectacular to look at. Some interesting, healthy fish are all I need to enjoy a basic setup. Expanding as I go is something I'm very used to and don't mind at all, it keeps me engaged. I honestly enjoy tank maintenance.

As for why I want to keep saltwater? Marine life fascinates me, plain and simple. I'm the type to be amazed by sparrows and doves in my yard lol. I don't need overly extravagant stocking yet, and prefer not to overspend here anyways in case something goes wrong.

Someone else mentioned downgrading to a 20gal may be worth considering, but I'm not sure what this would mean for the current setup nor future expansion. I do want a reef eventually. But I have a 20 long I can use instead if that might benefit me.

 

[C4ctus99]

The $500 ballpark is just as much -- if not a little less -- than what I expect to spend on the alternative, which is an elaborate, fully planted freshwater scape. I'm not afraid to spend some money! The $200 overflow doesn't scare me on its own; it's the horror stories about failures, seemingly complicated setup, and the fact I feel the money could go towards more essential pieces of equipment right now. I would plan on adding a sump & overflow later anyways but I'll be honest, I can't even really figure out what a sump does, other than store equipment. Aesthetics and conveniences aren't my main focus right now.

$500 is a good starting number, I started sumpless and was glad cause when I was ready to upgrade had learned exactly what I wanted to do and why