Constantly Failing At SPS What Am I Missing?

[RMS18]

Do you have your ZEO reactor programmed to come on for 3 hours, turn off for 3 hours, etc etc? I found that to be absolutely vital in my system.

No it runs 24/7 the on off is when you are adding zeo to a existing system with corals i belive. I did zeo from start up. I've worked with Alexander the top guy on the zeo forum to fine tune my zeo system and it was said to have my reactor running 24/7. This might also be because of my high fish bio load.

 

[CoralWealth]

I had this exact same thing happen to me. I would bet a ton of money that it is the water, having your own RO/DI with 2 DI resins would be my first move. Adding an extra DI compartment to any RO/DI system would cost a total of $30 extra. When you are talking about buying SPS frags that are hundreds of dollars, well worth it.

This was my biggest mistake and like a lot of other people said above, it is probably the most important thing besides stability but you said you have that already

 

[RMS18]

My 2 cents...
I struggled for a long time with acros with similar symptoms to what you have. And your parameters are way better than mine were at least from a nutrient standpoint (mine were way too low). Maybe it's something that Triton is not picking up, I don't know. But what I would do is ditch the Zeovit and start reducing variables.

I tried Zeovit and I know it works for some, but it was just too many variables for me and too much anecdotal recommendations.

A big turning point for me and my way of thinking was this Jason Fox talk at a local reef club. Just dead simple and his results are just out of this world IMO.


I've watched it like 10 times. The only thing I do different is dose nitrate because I can't seem to maintain them otherwise.

I am by no means an expert, but I went from acro frags dying to acros doing pretty good. And the other corals - LPS, montis, etc that I thought were doing ok are exploding now.

Very much appreciated! I'll check that video out tomorrow... My past experiences with gfo have not been good as far as consistency goes with po4. That is my downside with gfo. I think I have some other options to attmpat forst before I make a drastic move and change out my export system.

 

[RMS18]

I had this exact same thing happen to me. I would bet a ton of money that it is the water, having your own RO/DI with 2 DI resins would be my first move. Adding an extra DI compartment to any RO/DI system would cost a total of $30 extra. When you are talking about buying SPS frags that are hundreds of dollars, well worth it.

This was my biggest mistake and like a lot of other people said above, it is probably the most important thing besides stability but you said you have that already

I agree... I do not see why I will not have a rodi system ordered by tomorrow night. I'll have to research the differences between all the kits BRS has and get the plumbing set up figured out.

 

[justingraham]

I do not think u run ur Lights long enough (which would make sense why there is no coraline at least in my eyes)
@saltyfilmfolks what do u think? he’s running 325 - 250 par for 6.5 hours

 

[RMS18]

Thoughts on the 5 stage plus system? I'm on city water, I would say it's hard water due to the build up I get on my shower head over time.

 

[RMS18]

I do not think u run ur Lights long enough (which would make sense why there is no coraline at least in my eyes)
@saltyfilmfolks what do u think? he’s running 325 - 250 par for 6.5 hours

Wouldn't SPS darken up if not getting enough light?

 

[Arif]

How long have you had the tank and don you have enough live rock, good flow?

 

[RMS18]

How long have you had the tank and don you have enough live rock, good flow?

I have all the possible information you could want in my first post in this thread. Tried to provide everything possible for everyone.

35 lb of rock. Power heads on are on. Controller I have random flow, it's strong current.

 

[Mikemccafe]

With 8 months of it running I'd say it should be there to support some basics SPS at least.
There is a decent amount of coraline, I started to see a growth increase about 2 months ago. I only introduced 2 lps frags that had Coraline on them and that was 3-4 months ago.

Yes to ATO and Yes to doser using red Sea alk, Cal and mag. Alk, Cal and potassium are on doser. Mag dosent budge much before wc day.

I was thinking the same thing about tank maturity, be patient if everything is looking good a few more months could be all you need

 

[iemsparticus]

No it runs 24/7 the on off is when you are adding zeo to a existing system with corals i belive. I did zeo from start up. I've worked with Alexander the top guy on the zeo forum to fine tune my zeo system and it was said to have my reactor running 24/7. This might also be because of my high fish bio load.

There are three stages of the ZEOvit system... Stage 1 is just starting out fresh with a new tank (where you were). Stage 2 is when your system is running ZEOvit but is not ULN yet, or established tanks just starting ZEOvit. Stage 3 is when your system is running ZEOvit and is a stable ULN.

You are in stage 2, so please keep that in mind. As you started your tank with dry rock, it’s likely you will be in stage 2 for much longer than if you had started it with live rock... this has been my experience at least. It’s not an issue, it’s just extremely helpful to keep this in mind and adjust your system accordingly.

It is recommended that you alternate between 3 hours on and 3 hours off all day every day when you are running ZEOvit in a nutrient rich environment.

What is your dosage of ZEOvit media (sorry if you already said and I missed it)? As you are in stage 2, you should be running 1 liter or ZEOvit per 150 gallons net water volume.

 

[iemsparticus]

Doesn’t that help support anoxic bacteria? That would help NO3 Control, what if you just leased the supply?

That’s correct... it alternates between aerobic and anaerobic conditions. By lessing the supply, do you mean the amount of flow through the reactor, or the amount of zeolites in the reactor?

 

[bif24701]

That’s correct... it alternates between aerobic and anaerobic conditions. By lessing the supply, do you mean the amount of flow through the reactor, or the amount of zeolites in the reactor?

The flow. I don’t run Zeo, but I understand the concept. Flow through those reactors is already kinda low right?

 

[rck329]

Very much appreciated! I'll check that video out tomorrow... My past experiences with gfo have not been good as far as consistency goes with po4. That is my downside with gfo. I think I have some other options to attmpat forst before I make a drastic move and change out my export system.

I used to run GFO on previous tank and I think it was stripping too much. I don't run it on my current setup (40B with 20g sump). Nor do I run carbon. (although I keep them on hand in case I would want to). It's a bare bottom system and my experience has been PO4 is directly controllable with feeding. I got a little crazy with feeding the corals and PO4 went up to 0.12 ppm (in 3 years I'd never seen more than 0.05). Cut back on the feeding and it came right back down.

My thinking now is just that GFO and carbon are just 2 more variables to control (when they are new, when they exhaust, when to change, how much). No doubt they do what they are supposed to, and certainly a method can be worked out for how much and when to change, but if you can run without them, why not. Same for every other thing we use on our tanks.

Sounds like you have the right approach. Good luck and don't give up! I know I had some really down times, but I've been too stubborn to let it "beat me." Acros are tough - at least they have been for me! Stylos, montis and other are not too bad, but man, the acros have driven me half nuts.

 

[VP616]

Not to take away from further investigating your source water, but have you considered a coral bacterial infection? It's something not too many reefers list as a possibility, especially when all the parameters look stable enough, such as in your case. Exact causes are relatively unknown but the effects are well documented.

Joe Yaiullo and several researchers have discussed a doxycycline treatment as an option. It's usually a 24-hour treatment cycle and can be repeated after a week. I, myself, have gone through what you are experiencing now and have turned things around for the better after a 2-time doxycycline cycle. But, please note, this was based off my own experience from the advice of Joe Yaiullo, so the end result might be completely different for you.

Also, don't expect instant results, but rather a "lessened" occurrence of the RTN/STN episodes. Not to say that you'll never have a coral die after trying this option, but it is one more variable to eliminate. The plus side of it is that there is very little, if any, side effect of dosing directly into the display tank. So therefore, why not try it. Might be worth a shot, before you start messing with the kitchen sink drains.

Attached is the exact instruction I was given direct from Joe, himself.

 

[Hockeypunk1]

When my acros have looked like that it has been lack of nutrients. 15 no3 sounds pretty high for a zeovit system. I know you have a high bioload but with the large skimmer and zeo it just seems like your test kit could be off. Maybe you can bring a water sample to your lfs and have them double check. The only other time my acros have looked like that is when a 2 little fishies veggie mag leached out in my tank slowly killing some of my sps until I removed the veggiemag.

 

[justingraham]

Not to take away from further investigating your source water, but have you considered a coral bacterial infection? It's something not too many reefers list as a possibility, especially when all the parameters look stable enough, such as in your case. Exact causes are relatively unknown but the effects are well documented.

Joe Yaiullo and several researchers have discussed a doxycycline treatment as an option. It's usually a 24-hour treatment cycle and can be repeated after a week. I, myself, have gone through what you are experiencing now and have turned things around for the better after a 2-time doxycycline cycle. But, please note, this was based off my own experience from the advice of Joe Yaiullo, so the end result might be completely different for you.

Also, don't expect instant results, but rather a "lessened" occurrence of the RTN/STN episodes. Not to say that you'll never have a coral die after trying this option, but it is one more variable to eliminate. The plus side of it is that there is very little, if any, side effect of dosing directly into the display tank. So therefore, why not try it. Might be worth a shot, before you start messing with the kitchen sink drains.

Attached is the exact instruction I was given direct from Joe, himself.

Where did u get doxycycline from? This is interesting

 

[justingraham]

Wouldn't SPS darken up if not getting enough light?

It an go both ways but a slow bleaching of Corals like I beleive u describe could be from not enough light @saltyfilmfolks is way smarter then me in the light catogory and hopefully he will show up and either tell me I’m wrong or right

But to me 6.5 hours at 250 par isn’t enough it’s a DLI of 5.85 and the goal is somewhere in the 15-20 DLI

More on DLI here
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/5/aafeature

 

[iemsparticus]

The flow. I don’t run Zeo, but I understand the concept. Flow through those reactors is already kinda low right?

Flow is recommended as 50-100 gph UNLESS you are in stage 2, as @Bmwm235i is... in stage two, yes, you want to slow the flow through the reactor down... 50-60 gph is recommended.

Stage 2 is important to recognize... it requires slower flow through the reactor, lower dosage of materials, and alternating the reactor on and off. And there is no set timetable to get out of stage 2... it lasts until you hit a stable ULN system.

 

[iemsparticus]

It an go both ways but a slow bleaching of Corals like I beleive u describe could be from not enough light @saltyfilmfolks is way smarter then me in the light catogory and hopefully he will show up and either tell me I’m wrong or right

But to me 6.5 hours at 250 par isn’t enough it’s a DLI of 5.85 and the goal is somewhere in the 15-20 DLI

More on DLI here
https://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/5/aafeature

Great article, @justingraham.