Constantly Failing At SPS What Am I Missing?

justingraham · Mar 15, 2018

Bmwm235i said:
I do not grow Chaeto. I appreciate all the feedback, i think going with my rodi system and a lighting change is where i want to start. I do not want to do to many things at once because i wont know what the issue was. I do have a list however of all the suggestions. I basically rated the changes by most popular and rodi and lighting was top 2.

I think with these two adjustments u will be on ur way

bif24701 · Mar 16, 2018

Please take a look at this recent post of a vendor and grower of high end acros. He also express some frustrations he has with a system that is newish. Read and take heed. You may not be doing anything wrong or missing anything but time.

....THE BEST AND WORST OF TIMES....THAT FIRST YEAR.....
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php...ORST-OF-TIMES....THAT-FIRST-YEAR......369474/

RMS18 · Mar 16, 2018

bif24701 said:
Please take a look at this recent post of a vendor and grower of high end acros. He also express some frustrations he has with a system that is newish. Read and take heed. You may not be doing anything wrong or missing anything but time.

....THE BEST AND WORST OF TIMES....THAT FIRST YEAR.....
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/....THE-BEST-AND-WORST-OF-TIMES....THAT-FIRST-YEAR......369474/

Thanks for sending this to me! FYI I have a 5 stage BRS rodi on its way. Should be another great help.

bif24701 · Mar 16, 2018

Bmwm235i said:
Thanks for sending this to me! FYI I have a 5 stage BRS rodi on its way. Should be another great help.

Great. Really IMO the most important equipment.

Be sure and follow directions for breaking in the RO to get it fully wet before collecting water. If you have questions please ask.

minder_mano · Mar 16, 2018

Get a triton test kit. That’s the only way to know for sure what your parameters are and it will let you know if anything bad is in the water

itisjp · Mar 16, 2018

Just my opinion from reading the posts... My system is 280 total gallons but the system I ran before this one 10 years ago was about the same size as you are running now. I am have always run a low flow fudge with macro algae in it, as large as you can. You can plumb in any tank size you can fit if you don’t have the space in the sump. Or hang on the back, whatever fits. The macro seems to suck up excess nitrate and phosphate. Good to see your going to start making your own water. My current system is only six months old and the fudge is exploded with life with sponges and pods. I have SPS doing great for three months now. Your parameters seem in range. Only other thing is start the intensity on the LED’s lower than you think. I run T5’s and Kessil LED’s ... my SPS were getting lighter in color after two or three weeks then I knocked the intensity down on the LED’s to 30% and slowly started to move it up once the coral started getting more color and stoped looking lighter in color. I moved it about 3 to 5 % ever week or two until the polyps started extending and looking good.Keep at it and change one thing at a time and go slow. Just curious have your LPS changed color since you got them ... like gotten lighter in color. Say from green to a turquoise color?

SteadyC · Mar 16, 2018

Bmwm235i said:
6.5 hour with T5 and LED on, 1.5 ramp dawn and 1.5 ramp dusk. My pars are on my first post.

Too short in my opinion, most people’s schedule I notice are full lights for 8 hours and then ramp up/down time of 1 or 1.5 hour on each side, for total of 10-11 or 12 hours. Not that this is a silver bullet, but if you look at SPS AB+, they use 1 hour ramp, 8 hour full, 1 hour ramp down.

jahnje · Mar 16, 2018

Since no one else mentioned this. Get some copepods from algae barn and dump them in after the lights go off. I've got a 1.5 gallon pico system with stacked travertine tiles in it as the only rock. My sps was not happy until I really bumped the coral specific nutrients up. But the biggest improvements came from the addition of pods. Just my two cents.

Mike810 · Mar 16, 2018

How old is your system? I am sorry if I missed it. I started my tank July of 2017 and struggled with keeping acros alive. I started with all dead rock, dead sand and when parameters were stable, I tried acros. Thousands of dollars later to have just a bunch of dead sps frags. I simply gave up on the tank and let it do it's thing. I also have a very high bioload of fish. 50+ fish in a 360 gallon tank with 7-9 tangs ranging in size from med to XL. When I gave up, hair algae took over completely but something else also grew, coraline algae! When I tried to keep SPS, there was no coraline algae. Now there is a ton and the sps are able to hold their color and show PE. I run the zeovit system also but I am no where ULN.

I think people chase numbers too much and do this or that to correct it. My NO3 is above 50 and po4 .31 with hanna ULR yet I have no algae or cyano problems. I had more problems with SPS when my nutrients were low. Is my growth great? No, I know that is due to the high po4 but am I actively trying to reduce the nutrients? No, in time, the tank should be able to process the nutrients on it's own granted I don't overfeed like crazy. I will give the tank and zeovit time to do it's thing but right now even with such high nutrients which are completely out of the norm when it comes to today's reefing standards, I am having success which I never had before following the "keep your nutrients very low" methodology.

I would say, sit back and relax. Wait for the coraline to show up and a lot of it. Don't worry about your nutrients so much and keep your alk rock solid throughout the day/week. Let the tank mature and let your corals tell you what they need, not some magic set point numbers. I don't buy into the, you must keep your nutrients low to succeed with SPS. If you have the proper herbivores and CUC in place, you need not worry about algae. I am more than happy to post some pics if you want to see. They won't be the greatest pics you will see my SPS has color and PE even in a super high nutrient environment.

My net water volume is 378 gallons so I should be running 3.7 liters of stones right with about 370 gph through the reactor. I only run 3 liters of stones with 300 gph through the reactor. You can find my thread on the zeovit forum regarding high nutrients and zeovit. As long as my colors look good, are colorful with PE and growing, I am in no rush to make any changes. I believe any changes you make should be done slowly over the course of a few days if not weeks.

If you ask me, your corals look like they're getting way too much light or they're starving.

1stNoel · Mar 17, 2018

Bmwm235i said:
Yes I am running Zeovit for nutrient control. Because of my high bio load of fish I'm not getting uln like others. I used to run gfo and carbon on my lps systems however had issues with gfo staying consistent with po4. When I was building this tank, it was about 1.5 years in on BRS Zeovit tank and decided to try it out to gain the consistency with nutrients being stable. I only dose the basic 3 for the system because I'm not uln so the other additives would not apply to me. To much fish poop!

Haven't read through the entire thread...but ditch the Zeovit. My tank was running fine until I switched to it. Take a look at my posts and you'll see before and after Zeovit pictures.

I even started a brand new tank to give Zeovit a fresh start, but it just didn't work for me. Anytime you change zeolites, it feels like your corals go through shock (no matter how small of a change I tried).

bif24701 · Mar 17, 2018

jahnje said:
Since no one else mentioned this. Get some copepods from algae barn and dump them in after the lights go off. I've got a 1.5 gallon pico system with stacked travertine tiles in it as the only rock. My sps was not happy until I really bumped the coral specific nutrients up. But the biggest improvements came from the addition of pods. Just my two cents.

Better biodiversity and CC never hurts. Just as long there are no pests.

VP616 · Mar 17, 2018

Bmwm235i said:
Safe for fish and inverts?

Yes, doxycycline treatment is completely safe for fish and inverts. I've done two cycles of it on my own tanks and all fish and inverts made it without incident.

Robert Vacchiano · Mar 17, 2018

Sps will not tolerate tap water a Ro di is a must .I would not do any more water changes till you get your system

Robert Vacchiano · Mar 17, 2018

Even when you put in additives to remove chlorine sps will not fair well.I am pretty sure this is your problem. Your parameters are good nitrate is fine just try to keep it at 25 or lower

RMS18 · Mar 17, 2018

minder_mano said:
Get a triton test kit. That’s the only way to know for sure what your parameters are and it will let you know if anything bad is in the water

Look back a few pages.. already did one.

RMS18 · Mar 17, 2018

itisjp said:
Just my opinion from reading the posts... My system is 280 total gallons but the system I ran before this one 10 years ago was about the same size as you are running now. I am have always run a low flow fudge with macro algae in it, as large as you can. You can plumb in any tank size you can fit if you don’t have the space in the sump. Or hang on the back, whatever fits. The macro seems to suck up excess nitrate and phosphate. Good to see your going to start making your own water. My current system is only six months old and the fudge is exploded with life with sponges and pods. I have SPS doing great for three months now. Your parameters seem in range. Only other thing is start the intensity on the LED’s lower than you think. I run T5’s and Kessil LED’s ... my SPS were getting lighter in color after two or three weeks then I knocked the intensity down on the LED’s to 30% and slowly started to move it up once the coral started getting more color and stoped looking lighter in color. I moved it about 3 to 5 % ever week or two until the polyps started extending and looking good.Keep at it and change one thing at a time and go slow. Just curious have your LPS changed color since you got them ... like gotten lighter in color. Say from green to a turquoise color?

Yes I did turn down the LEDs, it's still follows the AB+ but it was provided to me by another member for LED/T5 combo.

Some LPS have lost a bit of vivid color others have not. For example hammer is still super green and vibrant and growing... Purple bubble is getting huge and gowing babies.. gonipora lose deep coloration but are growing.

RMS18 · Mar 17, 2018

jahnje said:
Since no one else mentioned this. Get some copepods from algae barn and dump them in after the lights go off. I've got a 1.5 gallon pico system with stacked travertine tiles in it as the only rock. My sps was not happy until I really bumped the coral specific nutrients up. But the biggest improvements came from the addition of pods. Just my two cents.

Already ahead of you. I'm on their auto subscription every 2 months. Been using them for years. Great vendor

RMS18 · Mar 17, 2018

Mike810 said:
How old is your system? I am sorry if I missed it. I started my tank July of 2017 and struggled with keeping acros alive. I started with all dead rock, dead sand and when parameters were stable, I tried acros. Thousands of dollars later to have just a bunch of dead sps frags. I simply gave up on the tank and let it do it's thing. I also have a very high bioload of fish. 50+ fish in a 360 gallon tank with 7-9 tangs ranging in size from med to XL. When I gave up, hair algae took over completely but something else also grew, coraline algae! When I tried to keep SPS, there was no coraline algae. Now there is a ton and the sps are able to hold their color and show PE. I run the zeovit system also but I am no where ULN.

I think people chase numbers too much and do this or that to correct it. My NO3 is above 50 and po4 .31 with hanna ULR yet I have no algae or cyano problems. I had more problems with SPS when my nutrients were low. Is my growth great? No, I know that is due to the high po4 but am I actively trying to reduce the nutrients? No, in time, the tank should be able to process the nutrients on it's own granted I don't overfeed like crazy. I will give the tank and zeovit time to do it's thing but right now even with such high nutrients which are completely out of the norm when it comes to today's reefing standards, I am having success which I never had before following the "keep your nutrients very low" methodology.

I would say, sit back and relax. Wait for the coraline to show up and a lot of it. Don't worry about your nutrients so much and keep your alk rock solid throughout the day/week. Let the tank mature and let your corals tell you what they need, not some magic set point numbers. I don't buy into the, you must keep your nutrients low to succeed with SPS. If you have the proper herbivores and CUC in place, you need not worry about algae. I am more than happy to post some pics if you want to see. They won't be the greatest pics you will see my SPS has color and PE even in a super high nutrient environment.

My net water volume is 378 gallons so I should be running 3.7 liters of stones right with about 370 gph through the reactor. I only run 3 liters of stones with 300 gph through the reactor. You can find my thread on the zeovit forum regarding high nutrients and zeovit. As long as my colors look good, are colorful with PE and growing, I am in no rush to make any changes. I believe any changes you make should be done slowly over the course of a few days if not weeks.

If you ask me, your corals look like they're getting way too much light or they're starving.

My system is 7 months 4 days. Yes I'm also not at uln and I'm not trying to be. My thought process behind using zeo was to keep nutrients more stable and handle my heavy bio load. I have made 2 changes after starting this thread.
1. I have a 5 stage rodi on it's way
2. I lowered my LEDs a bit.

Once the rodi system comes in I plan on doing 2 big water changes within a week.

RMS18 · Mar 17, 2018

Robert Vacchiano said:
Sps will not tolerate tap water a Ro di is a must .I would not do any more water changes till you get your system

I wasn't using tap, it was rodi from LFS but who knows who clean the water is.

justingraham · Mar 17, 2018

Bmwm235i said:
I wasn't using tap, it was rodi from LFS but who knows who clean the water is.

I like u bought rodi water years ago and was having algea problems. I was stumped had no idea what was going on or why I had so much algea.
I then bought a tds meter from the same lfs and tested there water
it came in at 100 tds I showed them this and since everything was from there store they blamed my bucket for the tds. I then took a brand new empty solo cup and got the same tds they the blamed the tds problem on a bad meter that they wouldn’t refund me for
So long story short I bought an rodi unit and have never looked back and have never been back to that lfs.
If u ever go back to the lfs ask for them to test the tds of it for u or bring your own meter and test it. If it is zero tds no big deal but if it’s anything higher and they give u the run around u might want to find a better lfs