Controllable deep sand beds - a discussion thread

Lasse · Jul 20, 2018

Sleep tight,don't let the bedbugs bite

Sincerely Lasse

Dr.Xipoles · Jul 20, 2018

Would a brs dosing pump be a good pump for this application so as to not create hydrogen sulfide?

Thanks.

Dennis Cartier · Jul 20, 2018

Dr.Xipoles said:
Would a brs dosing pump be a good pump for this application so as to not create hydrogen sulfide?

Thanks.

The BRS dosing pumps are not rated for a continuous duty cycle. You are into Masterflex and Watson Marlow pumps for this type of use (or plan for pump failure and keep spares).

Dennis

Forsaken77 · Jul 20, 2018

So is this basically a fluidized sandbed filter of old, with added bacteria to feed it? Lifeguard Aquatics still makes them and can be modified most likely.

Another member on here, who unfortunately passed away earlier this year, came up with his own DIY Nitrate Destroyer. He used 2 pvc pipes (first pipe was in-flow at the top, the second was fed from the first at the bottom and exited the top) and filled them with a mix of all different shapes and sized medias. The slow flow rate enabled aerobic bacteria in the first chamber to form and allowed anaerobic bacteria in the second chamber to gas off the nitrogen that formed to eliminate nitrates.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/poor-man-nutrients-control-donovans-nitrate-destroyer.302685/

Sallstrom · Jul 21, 2018

Forsaken77 said:
So is this basically a fluidized sandbed filter of old, with added bacteria to feed it? Lifeguard Aquatics still makes them and can be modified most likely.

Another member on here, who unfortunately passed away earlier this year, came up with his own DIY Nitrate Destroyer. He used 2 pvc pipes (first pipe was in-flow at the top, the second was fed from the first at the bottom and exited the top) and filled them with a mix of all different shapes and sized medias. The slow flow rate enabled aerobic bacteria in the first chamber to form and allowed anaerobic bacteria in the second chamber to gas off the nitrogen that formed to eliminate nitrates.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/poor-man-nutrients-control-donovans-nitrate-destroyer.302685/

Yes, Donovan's filter is the same idea. Haven't read his thread yet. Will do. Thanks!

If you want it to fluidize I think you need a lot larger pump then the dosing pump I was thinking of

And probably put the pump at the inlet. My thought was low flow.

Sallstrom · Jul 21, 2018

Dennis Cartier said:
The BRS dosing pumps are not rated for a continuous duty cycle. You are into Masterflex and Watson Marlow pumps for this type of use (or plan for pump failure and keep spares).

Dennis

Please add some links to the pumps if you know where to find them. Would really like to find more controllable pumps 10-100 l/h.

We have some membrane pumps for our large calcium reactors, great pumps but they are very loud. Here's it is: http://www.makab.se/shop/pumpar/849-pump-membran-bl-15-2-1-bar.html

Sallstrom · Jul 21, 2018

I didn't intended for this thread to be just about the filter I sketched. If you have other types of sand bed filters please share you thought and setups!

I know @Lasse has a slightly different setup which are up and running now. We want more filters!

/ David

Tajaba · Jul 21, 2018

Hi guys..... Idk how the tech over in the west has developed, but I have used this system for quite some time already. Its pretty similar to the Dymico system but I made it much simpler and added an algae reactor to raise the pH. I designed it myself about 3 years ago and the test tank ran for 2 years before I moved house and started a new tank (4k L tank)

here's some pics of the tank in early 2015

And here is the tank in late 2016.

All corals as you can see are grown from frags. Mortality was very low with this tank and I could even raise gorgonians and some NPS without any problem.

The main reason I did this tank was because of the "skimmer craze" here in Thailand a few years back where everyone was trying to sell skimmers like they're hotcakes or something. I wanted to see whether it was possible to have a system designed and maintained without using a skimmer at all. This system was the result. It uses an active deep sand bed (I call it an aDSB) for main filtration and a chaeto reactor for secondary filtration.

again, ran this for 2 years, no problem whatsoever. Only problem was it ticked off alot of people that it succeeded.

Scrubber_steve · Jul 21, 2018

Tajaba said:
Hi guys..... Idk how the tech over in the west has developed, but I have used this system for quite some time already. Its pretty similar to the Dymico system but I made it much simpler and added an algae reactor to raise the pH. I designed it myself about 3 years ago and the test tank ran for 2 years before I moved house and started a new tank (4k L tank)

here's some pics of the tank in early 2015

And here is the tank in late 2016.

All corals as you can see are grown from frags. Mortality was very low with this tank and I could even raise gorgonians and some NPS without any problem.

The main reason I did this tank was because of the "skimmer craze" here in Thailand a few years back where everyone was trying to sell skimmers like they're hotcakes or something. I wanted to see whether it was possible to have a system designed and maintained without using a skimmer at all. This system was the result. It uses an active deep sand bed (I call it an aDSB) for main filtration and a chaeto reactor for secondary filtration.

again, ran this for 2 years, no problem whatsoever. Only problem was it ****** off alot of people that it succeeded.

I like it.

Scrubber_steve · Jul 21, 2018

Tajaba said:
Hi guys..... Idk how the tech over in the west has developed, but I have used this system for quite some time already. Its pretty similar to the Dymico system but I made it much simpler and added an algae reactor to raise the pH. I designed it myself about 3 years ago and the test tank ran for 2 years before I moved house and started a new tank (4k L tank)

here's some pics of the tank in early 2015

And here is the tank in late 2016.

All corals as you can see are grown from frags. Mortality was very low with this tank and I could even raise gorgonians and some NPS without any problem.

The main reason I did this tank was because of the "skimmer craze" here in Thailand a few years back where everyone was trying to sell skimmers like they're hotcakes or something. I wanted to see whether it was possible to have a system designed and maintained without using a skimmer at all. This system was the result. It uses an active deep sand bed (I call it an aDSB) for main filtration and a chaeto reactor for secondary filtration.

again, ran this for 2 years, no problem whatsoever. Only problem was it ****** off alot of people that it succeeded.

Did you inject co2 to utilise it as a calcium reactor as well as nutrient export?

Tajaba · Jul 21, 2018

Hey Steve,

No I didn't I saw that Dymico was using something like that, but I used a kalkreactor instead since I wanted to keep the pH higher (I managed to keep it at a stable 8.2).

I forgot to mention that I didn't do any water changes for the last year of this test tank.

CherBear811 · Jul 21, 2018

Jomama said:
There draw back of dymico is cost, and not simple enough. Give it time, when microprocessor fails (with time), won't be fun. Personally. My denitrator on dt, simply 5 gallon bucket, I use clay 1/8" size. water enters top. With pump(dedicated to it) in refugium,pump keeps recirculation , let gravity do its job. Works fine. I use to use sulfur denitrator, but it effects calcium, alkalinity, etc....

Would love to see a pic of this (the 5 gallon set up you mentioned)!

Dr. Dendrostein · Jul 21, 2018

CherBear811 said:
Would love to see a pic of this (the 5 gallon set up you mentioned)!

The clay is cat litter

Erica-Renee · Jul 21, 2018

MY DSB . Deep sand bed is in form of 1.5 gallon buckets of sand In my sump. Each one is numbered.. I have 6 of them.. Every 4 months I remove the oldest one and replace with new sand Dumping the content. .. This to me is the easiest to maintain .

Val Shebeko · Jul 22, 2018

I’ve been running a dsb for 4 years now. With just a hang on back skimmer. Nice to see there are others out there. For a while I thought I was the only one.

Val Shebeko · Jul 22, 2018

Following

jjflounder1 · Jul 22, 2018

I use a set up like that in my sump . So water flows through my ruble rock .. instead of just over it .

For tight packed sand you have to do some testing for size of the pipe . A valve or a pump that would let the water flow once or twice a day . Like the shifting currents of the ocean would do .
Otherwise you would just be making a huge fluidized bed filter .

bblumberg · Jul 22, 2018

Has anyone read Paul B's thread about his 47 year old tank? He runs a reverse flow undergravel filter which is conceptually not so different from what is being discussed here, just less complicated.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-make-a-tank-last-for-40-years-with-few-problems.290237/

Val Shebeko · Jul 22, 2018

jjflounder1 said:
I use a set up like that in my sump . So water flows through my ruble rock .. instead of just over it .

For tight packed sand you have to do some testing for size of the pipe . A valve or a pump that would let the water flow once or twice a day . Like the shifting currents of the ocean would do .
Otherwise you would just be making a huge fluidized bed filter .

You all, it seems to me are talking about “plenums’. My understanding of dsb is 4 - 6 inches of oolite 9 and (excuse the spelling) sand and no water flows through.

Nothing disturbs the sand.

Tajaba · Jul 22, 2018

What I used is not exactly a plenum. Water does run through the sand though but all the way to the bottom and flows out. The flow is incredibly low though.

My aDSB was 12 inches thick if that helps