Controller - do I really need one? Not liking the Apex reviews

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AtlCPA

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Up in the process of planning an upgrade to a 180 in a new home we are building. I've plugged in $800 to my budget for the newest apex system, but now I'm second guessing that.

The reviews of the Apex system and Neptune's customer support aren't very reassuring, with the poor customer support being my biggest concern. Second biggest concern is it seems when it goes wrong, it goes really wrong.

I've never had a controller and been ok. I plan to have Vortech pumps and Radions which I can control through reeflink.

I'm thinking at most I can get a reefkeeper to monitoring temp and ph and be done with it.

I had dreams of programming pumps to do autowater changes, etc, but just like with anything else, seems like the more you rely on technology, not bigger problems you can have.

I wish Ecotech would come out with a controller. Heard nothing but great things about them and their customer service.
 
You can do as much or as little as you want with most of the controllers on the market. I love my Apex system, BUT I do set several redundancies in any programming that I add and still keep a pretty close eye on the tank. Personally I don't want to run a tank where at least a fan and heaters are on a controller and that has an alert system.
 
Orphek OR3 reef aquarium LED bar
One thing to keep in mind (and this goes for a lot of products/reviews) is that you get a lot higher percentage of people posting bad reviews than good. People happy with the product may or may not go post a review saying so. People mad at a product get mad and want to tell the world how terrible the product is. So reviews generally skew towards the bad (same for movies, and amazon, etc).

FWIW, I've had Apex for about a year now, and love it. Very few issues (most user error or wifi issues, not Apex issues). The stability and awareness it has is worth every penny for me. I love knowing that my temp is correct, or that the water is flowing through the returns, or that no water is in the emergency drain, etc at any given time.
 
I loooove my Apex. I can check up on it from anywhere on my phone. I've had to contact Apex support a couple times in the last couple years, once for an emergency, and they've always replied within an hour or two, even on weekends (because emergencies always happen on Sundays).

Plus, the problems I've had could have happened with any equipment, but with the Apex, at least I can become aware of it instantly. As Drauka99 mentions, redundancies are key. Most my problems are user-error from when I forget to turn something back on or set the alarm.
 
from what I've been able to research, they all have their issues. I definitely agree you always get more negative posts/reviews than positive so I need to take that into consideration.

unfortunately there just aren't many options.
 
Tidal Gardens
I'm on my 3rd Apex. Started with a Jr, then bought the head unit of a full that was a back up for a friend, and just recently bought the "new" Apex. I've loved every single one and each has worked very well for me.

All that being said, the most "advanced" thing I've used it for is setting up AWC using a DOS. This was a critical feature right before my second cervical fusion though and worked great for me. IMO They aren't critical for most people but can make the hobby more enjoyable or fun for many of us. And yes, when they fail, more aggravating too. Personally, I like tech. The whole reason for buying the new apex was that it will support the Trident Alk/Calc tester due to come out soon. If you're tech adverse though, may want to skip it or go with the Jr version and use it just for controlling/monitoring temp and other basic functions.

I agree with @themcfreak though that you hear far more of the negatives about products than the positives. Neptune seemingly keeps growing which tends to strongly imply that people keep buying their products. The couple of times I've used their support, it was excellent, but neither time was a true emergency.
 
Apex are amazing controllers for your reef tanks. I personally do not have one, but will get one when I upgrade to a larger tank in like 2-3 years.
 
How many products that have worked perfectly right out of the box have you took the time to write about online? My guess is not many if are anything like me. Now how many products have you had issues with that you've written a less than positive review on? Several if you are like me.

IMHO its just a case of the squeaky wheel getting a lot more attention. Neptune (Apex) got to be one of the most popular controllers out there for a reason. The biggest complaint/problems I see usually is the lack of programming understanding, and I'm not even very good at it myself.
 
Top Shelf Aquatics
I would never run a tank without a controller. I'm on my 2nd Apex, currently the new model. The base unit died and support was great, had a new one in my hands within 24 hours.
 
Just keep in mind that any piece of technology can fail, and that the more complex your system, the more opportunity for something to go wrong. I've got a sizable 'investment' in apex gear, and while certainly not perfect, my experiences have been good. I see nothing wrong with their customer service either. Most poor customer service experiences are a result of unrealistic expectations. The flaw in apex is that it becomes a single point of failure in your system, so be mindful of that.
 
I have a new apex with just about every module available. Have had zero problems with it and have received responses to all my coding questions on the Neptune forums within a few hours.
 
Tidal Gardens
Short answer... no, you don't need one.

But.

I'll never own another tank without one.

I'm an automation developer... I do that kind of thing for a living, and long resisted making it part of my hobby. A few years ago, I was planning a 60g cube, and decided on a reefkeeper light instead of buying 3 light timers and a heater controller. Same price, really... just made sense. So... over time, I found myself adding power bars, automating more and more tasks, really happy with the results. It's not just consolidation... it's the layers of protection you can add to the system. I use Kalk with my ATO. Hey, if pH falls outside my window, shut the darned thing off! Simple, and might well save my tank one day. AC failure causing tank temp to rise? Turn off the lights! Power failure causing your skimmer to flood? Simple, don't start it for a set time after a power failure.

Everything was going very, very well... until my RKL started going weird on me. You're talking about poor support availability from APEX... just wait until you try DA. A few weeks of not trusting my controller, and constant frustration trying to get support... I bought an Apex.

Did a fair amount of research, first. Aquatronica, GHL ProfiLux... Seriously looked at DIY options, including the Raspberry PI version from a thread here. Apex ended up looking like the way to go for me.

So far... just a few weeks, and I'm overjoyed with my choice. The online access is great... email alerts.... Did a DIY breakout box, expanded functionality and visibility on my ATO reservoir refill cycle... Now I'm needing to buy another EB8.

Who knows. I may well regret it eventually, but right now, I'm happy as I can be with my Apex.
 
I have a stand alone heater controller, basic timers for lights and dosing pumps as well as my AWC.

I would enjoy the monitoring aspect (and the nerdy aspect) of it somewhat but frankly my discreet systems feel less prone to catastrophic failure.

I had previously built my own controller, but to be honest, that doesn't encourage the one thing everyone thinks is most critical in this hobby: consistency. The web interface was right there, I felt the need to fiddle all the time, just like people and their LED lighting profiles. I finally pulled everything apart and went as simple (and stable) as I could.
 
Greybeard said:
Short answer... no, you don't need one.

But.

I'll never own another tank without one.

I'm an automation developer... I do that kind of thing for a living, and long resisted making it part of my hobby. A few years ago, I was planning a 60g cube, and decided on a reefkeeper light instead of buying 3 light timers and a heater controller. Same price, really... just made sense. So... over time, I found myself adding power bars, automating more and more tasks, really happy with the results. It's not just consolidation... it's the layers of protection you can add to the system. I use Kalk with my ATO. Hey, if pH falls outside my window, shut the darned thing off! Simple, and might well save my tank one day. AC failure causing tank temp to rise? Turn off the lights! Power failure causing your skimmer to flood? Simple, don't start it for a set time after a power failure.

Everything was going very, very well... until my RKL started going weird on me. You're talking about poor support availability from APEX... just wait until you try DA. A few weeks of not trusting my controller, and constant frustration trying to get support... I bought an Apex.

Did a fair amount of research, first. Aquatronica, GHL ProfiLux... Seriously looked at DIY options, including the Raspberry PI version from a thread here. Apex ended up looking like the way to go for me.

So far... just a few weeks, and I'm overjoyed with my choice. The online access is great... email alerts.... Did a DIY breakout box, expanded functionality and visibility on my ATO reservoir refill cycle... Now I'm needing to buy another EB8.

Who knows. I may well regret it eventually, but right now, I'm happy as I can be with my Apex.
Click to expand...

great to hear. I think i'll feel ok with it if I can put enough fail safes in it. I've read about making sure you have your fall back programming done in case it goes haywire and you can't access it.

I saw a guy on youtube program two small pumps to do auto-water changes and it looked great....much better than the DOS AWC in my mind. I just need a trigger on something like that to make sure if the optical sensor fails, the refill pump wont unload my entire storage tank. I would think that would be as simple as saying "do not run more than xxx minutes....fall back programming is "off".

I do like technology and want to try Apex, just want to fully understand what I'm getting into.
 
First hand experience with fall backs. This past weekend, I decided it was time to clean up the cluster of wires that had invaded my "apex cabinet" (they are so easy to just throw in and let them coil up and get messed up!). I unplugged all of the modules and the head unit, and all of my equipment reacted the way I expected it to. The return pump stayed on, and vortechs stayed on, the lights turned off (the skimmer was already off, so can't say what that would have done). But even when my Apex was disconnected on purpose, fallbacks helped me out (All plugged into my EB832s). They obviously stopped working when I unplugged the power cords, but that, lol, was expected behavior also.
 
Tidal Gardens
Definitely don't need one but I can't imagine running a reef tank without one. My Apex (now termed a Classic) is 5 years old. I've only had one issue with it and their customer service was great. They made an appointment to log on to my computer remotely and fixed the problem in short order. It definitely makes life easier and contributes to the success of your tank.
 
No, you don't need one. The rest is personal bias and opinions. If you want mine Neptune has been around a while and I've had nothing but good results using their support system. Phone, email, and returned calls. 2000 I had a original neptune that was using X10's. No issues until my GSD thought it would make a great teething toy - go figure. I currently have a Apex and also a different GSD. This time I have the controller mounted so the dog doesn't think it is a chew toy :D

Back to my point though - it really is a personal opinion outside of do you need one. No, you don't. There are several controllers out there so find one that does what you want, maybe consider open source project like the ReefAngel, and if it makes sense roll with it. I also have a ReefAngel on my 40 breeder and it is a great product. Great support. Just more of a DIY system and you need to be able to write or copy and understand code. Believe it or not it actually offers some features not available (that I can see anyway) in my Apex like a "new" fish or coral acclimation setting to adjust lighting intensity lower. Storms and clouds are also not readily available using the VDM / DIY cables and LED's yet I can do this with my ReefAngel :)

TL;DR - no, you don't need one.
 
BRS

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%

  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%

  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%

  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
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