Copper treatment and testing

ellisz · Apr 28, 2017

I am treating 5 fish including a fairy wrasse with Kordon copper aid. I bought an api test kit to test my levels and have been having issues getting a reading. It says to use 5ml per 4 gallon of water. I added 35 ml to 28 gallons of water and did not get a reading.

Should I just add more slowly until I get a reading? This kit seems to be the right one for chelated copper.

Thanks

Humblefish · Apr 28, 2017

Kordon Copper-Aid is notoriously diluted chelated copper. Our very own @Maritimer can testify.

I suggest you switch over to using Coppersafe or Copper Power. Same kind of copper (chelated), but those products will get you closer to 1.5-2.0 ppm when used as directed.

ellisz · Apr 29, 2017

Thanks for the heads up.

ellisz · Apr 29, 2017

Looking for chelated copper or copper safe has proven to be harder than I thought. Local store recommends the ionic copper. Is this a bad idea?

I lost a kole tang this morning but I believe this was him not eating properly. The tang and carpenters wrasse were the only fish to show any outward signs of white spots.

I would like to get the treatment going but not sure if I should proceed with the ionic copper or mail order some copper safe?

4FordFamily · Apr 29, 2017

Another thing to be aware of is that if you have rock or sand in the tank it will absorb a considerable amount of copper. Not sure if you have that stuff in there, but ideally you shouldn't

ellisz · Apr 29, 2017

Understood. This is an old 29 gallon tank with some pvc and a power filter with seeded filter media. I have an ammonia alert on the tank so everything is good on that front for now.

Humblefish · Apr 29, 2017

I (personally) wouldn't use ionic copper on a wrasse, although others have done so with success. You'll need to do a large WC/run carbon before switching over to ionic.

ellisz · Apr 29, 2017

Hmm. I can order some copper safe from Amazon and have it by Monday. Based on what the wrasse looks like now and the fact that he is eating, I assume it will be fine. I have a clown, a chromis and a bangaii cardinal that don't have any spots. I did just noticed the clown has white string hanging from his belly. Should I order some prazi too?

4FordFamily · Apr 29, 2017

ellisz said:
Hmm. I can order some copper safe from Amazon and have it by Monday. Based on what the wrasse looks like now and the fact that he is eating, I assume it will be fine. I have a clown, a chromis and a bangaii cardinal that don't have any spots. I did just noticed the clown has white string hanging from his belly. Should I order some prazi too?

Yes I would advise both and you'll probably be fine waiting until Monday.

Humblefish · Apr 29, 2017

4FordFamily said:
Yes I would advise both and you'll probably be fine waiting until Monday.

+1 Prazipro is a good medication to use prophylactically.

ellisz · Apr 29, 2017

So, should I go ahead and do copper treatment if the spots don't come back? I was on the fence on whether it was ich or velvet but it would come and go.

I swear the spots were more prominent on Thursday night when I tore the display down to get them out but they look good now and are eating well.

Humblefish · Apr 29, 2017

ellisz said:
So, should I go ahead and do copper treatment if the spots don't come back? I was on the fence on whether it was ich or velvet but it would come and go.

If you've seen white spots and aren't sure if it's ich or velvet, my advice is to treat with copper.

4FordFamily · Apr 29, 2017

Humblefish said:
If you've seen white spots and aren't sure if it's ich or velvet, my advice is to treat with copper.

Agree.

Maritimer · Apr 29, 2017

I've had _abysmal_ luck with ionic copper and wrasses - but much less trouble with chelated copper such as CopperSafe. Your LFS may want to sell you ionic because they have it on their shelves, rather than because it's the best thing for your fish.

Prazi-Pro may help with the stringy white poo, but you might also look into MetroPlex, which can be bound to food with Seachem's "Focus". That'll treat any internal parasites where they live - inside the fish.

~Bruce (And yes ... the Kordon stuff, in my experience, is cut by about 75%. It'll get you there eventually, but take long enough to lose fish before you figure it out.)

Humblefish · Apr 29, 2017

Maritimer said:
Prazi-Pro may help with the stringy white poo, but you might also look into MetroPlex, which can be bound to food with Seachem's "Focus". That'll treat any internal parasites where they live - inside the fish.

Good catch. I missed the part about/photo of white stringy poop somehow

: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/internal-parasites-intestinal-worms.267419/

ellisz · Apr 29, 2017

Amazon did not have normal prazi in Stock so I bought API General Cure. This has both meds I believe. I can try to get some Focus as well. I planned on just treating the tank with the copper safe and the general cure when it comes on Monday. Is doing the copper via the water and the cure via the food a better option? I can order some focus if needed.

Humblefish · Apr 29, 2017

ellisz said:
Is doing the copper via the water and the cure via the food a better option? I can order some focus if needed.

It is better to food soak when battling internal parasites i.e. white stringy poop you are seeing. However, you will need Seachem Focus to prevent the medication from just leaching out of the food.

Now for external parasites (exs. brook & uronema) and external worms (exs. flukes & black ich), you'd want to dose GC directly into the water.

ellisz · Apr 29, 2017

Ok. Sounds like I need to order some focus and do both.

Thanks

ellisz · May 1, 2017

dang Amazon let me down. I got the Focus today, which I ordered after the copper and cure but not the actual medication I needed. Everyone appears to be doing ok and all are eating. Wrasse looks good but the clown has a few spots now.

Might see if I can get cure locally tomorrow. Bummed.

FYI, I added the rest of the bottle of Kordon and it barely registered on the API kit. That stuff was worthless.

ellisz · May 2, 2017

Well, I received my order today and instead of Copper Safe, I received F/2 Algae food! Now I am stuck waiting till Thursday... I believe I am ok with using the General cure by dosing the tank and combining with the Focus. Am I ok with doing this until Thursday and then dosing with the copper without any issues? Also, do I dose the tank based on the recommended dosage on the bottle(once I receive it)? Will this take me to 1.5-2 ppm or should it be ramped up slowly?