Coral Beauty not eating, looking thin :(

[citymouse]

I've had my coral beauty for over a year, mostly she has been hiding, I would have to look for her all the time just to make sure she was still alive. Today I noticed that her stomach area looks caved in, like she's starving, I never noticed before because I never see her I fed them and she didn't even try to eat, so I added more food and made sure it sunk down by her, she went for it as if she were going to eat but I don't think she ate anything at all. She looks like she's picking at the live rock sometimes, but not a lot, there is hair algae in there. Anyone know why she would stop eating? She looks like she's starving herself but I feed them regularly! I feed NLS Marine formula pellets.

The tank is 75g, I've had it for 7 years with the same 2 clowns. I have a PJ fish, the Coral Beauty, blue/green chromis, possibly a tiger goby (but I haven't really seen him since adding him last year, just a face sighting recently which tells me I still have one! I also have hermit crabs and some snails.

About 1 1/2 weeks ago I bought a yellow tang and 4 Chromis. They were all happy and fine, then one of the Chromis died. My nitrate levels were close to 200 so I did a 30g water change, the Tang started acting really odd, disoriented, flying around the tank really fast, resting, twitching etc. Later that night he was nowhere to found, moved a rock and out he came, swam full speed upwards and slammed into the lid, he did this few times, long story short, he died on Tuesday.

Today I lost another Chromis. My nitrates are down to 40 after my 2nd water change yesterday, my salinity is fine (2 hydrometers giving me diff. reading 1.021 to 1.024, not sure which one is accurate.

When the Tang died I meant to do the fresh water dip but I forgot and flushed him after taking pic etc. to try and figure out what was u. I'm wondering if I should do this with the Coral Beauty? I'm thinking of putting her in the quarantine tank and feeding her alone.

I do plan on buying some frozen food ASAP too.

 

[4FordFamily]

Well first of all I'd recommend feeding live blackworms and live brine for a fish that needs to eat yesterday.

Second of all, twitching sounds like it could be flukes, but the fact that the tang and angel seem affected makes me wonder if you have velvet or ich in there. It going be that the fish lost control after velvet infested the gills to its final blow, leading the fish to twitch and have seizure-like behavior.

Any fish swimming in to powerheads? Heavily breathing? Scratching?

You already have a hiding/cryptic fish clearly distressed and darting that's not eating so the other questions will help us.

I'm going to assume you don't quarantine your fish?

Sorry for the losses and your trouble

 

[ngoodermuth]

Definitely get some frozen food, or better yet some live brine shrimp or black worms. That might be more palatable if she's stressed or ill.

I think there is more than one thing going on here, take a look at this list and let us know if you've seen any of these sysmptoms:

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/306975/

The tang reacting to the water change is weird. Do you have access to a refractometer? I don't trust hydrometers on a good day, I'm wondering if faulty readings are causing salinity shifts.

Also, have you checked all of your equipment lately? In the DT and your mixing station?

 

[citymouse]

Well first of all I'd recommend feeding live blackworms and live brine for a fish that needs to eat yesterday.

Second of all, twitching sounds like it could be flukes, but the fact that the tang and angel seem affected makes me wonder if you have velvet or ich in there. It going be that the fish lost control after velvet infested the gills to its final blow, leading the fish to twitch and have seizure-like behavior.

Any fish swimming in to powerheads? Heavily breathing? Scratching?

You already have a hiding/cryptic fish clearly distressed and darting that's not eating so the other questions will help us.

I'm going to assume you don't quarantine your fish?

Sorry for the losses and your trouble

I'm going out today to get brine etc. for them.
The Coral Beauty isn't twitching or doing anything out of the ordinary, she has always hidden since the day I got her over a year ago. I think it's because I don't have a lot of fish swimming around out in the open.
Because of the way she was always hiding in the rocks, I could always find her but she stayed in the "tunnels", I never saw her enough to notice she wasn't eating or see her full body, she appears to go after the food but I'm guessing she hasn't actually been eating it based on how she looks now. She just started coming out in the open when I got the school of Chromis and the Tang, lots of activity drew her out of hiding.
I did fear velvet with the Tang, it went from totally normal and healthy looking all week, to crazed and dead within 2 days., I had the fish less than 2 weeks. I did have another post going on here about the Tang as well. Do you think I should do the fresh water dip with the Beauty?

Yes, stupidly I didn't quarantine the new fish...I didn't have an extra tank set up when I bought them...but since then, I have set up a 20g tall, filled and ready to go. I'm going to put the Coral Beauty in there unless that's a bad idea? To move her to a new unestablished tank? I was assuming I should move her, acclimate her to the tank etc. It's the same temp but being unused it's just clean saltwater.

I don't have a sump, I have canister filters, no power filter etc. I am upgrading to a 215 with sump soon, it was ordered today. All of the fish are acting normal, no scratching or heavy breathing. I'm watching them all closely now. There is only 1 Chromis left out of 4, they never acting abnormal, they swam in a school, ate and were all very active and normal. I'm wondering if the spike in Nitrates killed them, it was up to 200 before I did the water changes, it is down to 40 now, maybe a little less. I don't have corals, just live rock. I thought maybe the spike and then drop could have affected them? They are/were very small fish.

Every fish I get will now be quarantined for a month before adding to my new tank! I screwed up, I know it. I added hermits, snails and the followed up by adding 5 fish (the chromis and tang) a few days later. I read not to quarantine snails though, which confuses me, couldn't they also carry disease from one tank to another?

 

[citymouse]

Definitely get some frozen food, or better yet some live brine shrimp or black worms. That might be more palatable if she's stressed or ill.

I think there is more than one thing going on here, take a look at this list and let us know if you've seen any of these sysmptoms:

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/306975/

The tang reacting to the water change is weird. Do you have access to a refractometer? I don't trust hydrometers on a good day, I'm wondering if faulty readings are causing salinity shifts.

Also, have you checked all of your equipment lately? In the DT and your mixing station?

I was thinking the same, that several things might be happening all at once. Also, the Tang may have injured itself when it was freaking out, it swam very fast upward and slammed against the tank lid a few times in a row before settling down, it seems to need to be under or beside something to keep its balance, it was weird, hours later it was dead.

Thanks for the link, I"m going to read that after I'm done here.

I have 2 canister filters, I just cleaned them both a week apart. Before adding the fish I did a 30g water change, cleaned one filter and then cleaned the 2nd one a week later. My whole set up is going away soon, within a month. I bought a 215g tank and stand, looking into buying a sump and everything needed for a new set up.

I have also been thinking of buying a refractometer, I was just reading about them and how they are more accurate than hydrometers. I've used the same hydrometer for 7 years and have never had any issue, I've never had sick fish etc. Not in my saltwater or freshwater tank..knock on wood! This is the first time I've had so many issues with this tank.

 

[citymouse]

Definitely get some frozen food, or better yet some live brine shrimp or black worms. That might be more palatable if she's stressed or ill.

I think there is more than one thing going on here, take a look at this list and let us know if you've seen any of these sysmptoms:

https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/306975/

That link is talking about Michael Jordan and sports, my fish def. hasn't been playing basketball or acting like Michael Jordan. lol

 

[melypr1985]

She was pointing you towards this link I believe. Fish Disease Index - Pictorial Guide

It does sound like you have several issues going on here. I'd like to ask (along with the other questions posed) if you have checked for current leaking into the tank? Maybe an old powerhead or heater since the tank has been running for 7 years?

 

[citymouse]

She was pointing you towards this link I believe. Fish Disease Index - Pictorial Guide

It does sound like you have several issues going on here. I'd like to ask (along with the other questions posed) if you have checked for current leaking into the tank? Maybe an old powerhead or heater since the tank has been running for 7 years?

I don't have a powerhead, I have a glass Eheim heater. The heater hasn't been in there for 7 years but don't know how long ago. How do I check that?

 

[Humblefish]

I don't have a powerhead, I have a glass Eheim heater. The heater hasn't been in there for 7 years but don't know how long ago. How do I check that?

Do this: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/stray-voltage.304627/#post-3731920

And report back with your reading.

 

[citymouse]

I don't think we have a voltmeter? I'll ask my husband tomorrow (well, technically today) when he gets home from work, he might have one. So, I put one probe in the water and the other where? In an electrical socket? am I reading that right? because that sounds dangerous.

All of my fish so far, are acting normal, eating etc. I got frozen brine shrimp with Spirula and the Coral Beauty went after it a few times, but I'm not sure she ate it, she stays in an area under some rocks, I can see her mostly but she moves to area where I can't see her and may or may not be eating fallen food! She is poking at the rock a lot though, not sure if there's food there or if she's eating algae. I also put kelp in the tank, I clipped it down by the rocks she hangs around, she switches from one side of the tank to the other all the time, she still stays under the 2 areas where the rocks make a tunnel or cave on each side. I think I'm going to move her to the quarantine tank so I can keep an eye on her eating, she is a shy fish, when I feed them, the clowns are aggressive eaters, the Chromis is at the top trying to eat everything, including bubbles... the Cardinal is a middle to top swimmer..so the Beauty and the PJ fish are getting food that falls down to the bottom, they don't come out or swim up to eat, they never have.

Completely unrelated and on top of everything...my son has a 75g freshwater tank in his room, he had about 8 to 10 fish in there, all but 1 large fish and 1 catfish died! He has had these fish forever, changed the water a week or 2 ago and they were all fine, tonight just a bunch off floating fish! The big one is in a quarantine tank right now looking pretty bad, so weird! We tested the water, it's all normal, temp of the water is normal, there isn't a heater in there, the water maintains about 75 degrees or so all the time, the water temp from the tap this time of year is 80 degrees, the temp in my house is steady year round, nothing electrical in his tank, no explanation for the group death, they were all bleeding heart tetras that died. His tank has nothing at all to do with mine, he has his own equipment and everything, didn't get any fish from the store I went to..so absolutely unrelated to my fish issues! My tank is downstairs, his up in his room, we don't even drain them in the same sink. So weird.

I use RO/DI water and mix the salt in 5g jugs (for now, until I get the bigger tank), we have a system set up in the garage just for the fish tht need that water, my sons fish do not use this water, he fills from the tap and dechlorinates.

 

[citymouse]

Oh, I meant to ask and forgot (sorry for the babbling here) If I put the Beauty in the Quarantine tank, should I treat her as a precaution? In case she has velvet or something? I got some Cupermine today and a copper test kit, I just don't know the proper way to use it, I have read that I should ignore what the bottle says and add less and treat slower? Can it hurt the fish to treat precautionary?

 

[Humblefish]

Oh, I meant to ask and forgot (sorry for the babbling here) If I put the Beauty in the Quarantine tank, should I treat her as a precaution? In case she has velvet or something? I got some Cupermine today and a copper test kit, I just don't know the proper way to use it, I have read that I should ignore what the bottle says and add less and treat slower? Can it hurt the fish to treat precautionary?

Whether to treat proactively or just observe in QT is a hotly debated subject. From my way of thinking, it actually has more to do with you than the fish.

People who should always prophylactically treat for ich, velvet & flukes are:

1. Not the overly observant types.
2. Don't have 10-15 minutes every day to sit in front of the QT to observe for symptoms.

Folks who can get by with just passive observation in QT include:

1. Attention to detail types, who will notice not just obvious physical symptoms of disease but behavioral ones such as scratching/rubbing, flashing, head twitching, yawning, heavy breathing, swimming into the flow of a powerhead, purposely staying out of the light, etc.
2. Have the time & patience to sit in front of the QT every single day to observe for the above.

 

[citymouse]

Whether to treat proactively or just observe in QT is a hotly debated subject. From my way of thinking, it actually has more to do with you than the fish.

People who should always prophylactically treat for ich, velvet & flukes are:

1. Not the overly observant types.
2. Don't have 10-15 minutes every day to sit in front of the QT to observe for symptoms.

Folks who can get by with just passive observation in QT include:

1. Attention to detail types, who will notice not just obvious physical symptoms of disease but behavioral ones such as scratching/rubbing, flashing, head twitching, yawning, heavy breathing, swimming into the flow of a powerhead, purposely staying out of the light, etc.
2. Have the time & patience to sit in front of the QT every single day to observe for the above.

Ok, thanks. I have been watching her daily for longer and more often than that anyway, I just thought maybe if symptoms show up that it might be too late to treat, especially given how fast my Tang died and since he was new, me and my family had been watching him a lot, he was cool then all of the sudden he was acting weird and died a day later. Still not sure why, but I thought maybe preventative treatment was a good idea. So when quarantining new fish, do you just observe or treat with copper? I read a bunch of people saying to always treat with copper in the QT, I thought that was odd if the fish wasn't sick but then also thought maybe it prevented death or spreading the disease that didn't show until after they're put in the DT.

 

[Humblefish]

So when quarantining new fish, do you just observe or treat with copper? I read a bunch of people saying to always treat with copper in the QT, I thought that was odd if the fish wasn't sick but then also thought maybe it prevented death or spreading the disease that didn't show until after they're put in the DT.

I personally prophylactically treat with Chloroquine phosphate or copper, and then two rounds of Prazipro. Or vice versa if I suspect flukes are more pressing than treating for external parasites such as ich, velvet, etc.

The blue links above contain more detailed info.

 

[citymouse]

Tonight all of my fish are looking well, no issues. The Coral Beauty is still acting completely normal other than looking like she hasn't been eating, she's active, color is good etc. She did go after the frozen brine and I saw her eat at least 1 piece, she was swimming around through the rocks and out of my sight a lot, so I don't know if she ate more as it fell. She is currently being acclimated into the quarantine tank where I can keep a closer eye on her, the tank is in the room I spend most of my time with the TV and computer, so I'll be able to see the majority of the day and night. Hopefully, she eats and fattens up a bit and doesn't have any other issues. I'll try to get a good pic of her once I let her out of the bag and into the QT. Praying that she has just been skipping meals and my tank doesn't have any diseases!!

My hope is that the problem with the tang and the small blue fish was the very high nitrates and not something contagious. My Nitrates are staying at 40, but I'll be doing another water change soon as well. Cycling this new tank is going to be a challenge, it's been so long since I had to do that! I am adding media from the other tank to the QT filter as well.

 

[citymouse]

The Coral Beauty has been in the QT for 2 days now, acting normal, still not eating. I've tried frozen brine with Spirulina, I saw her eat 1 or 2 pieces again but that's it. I tried New Life Spectrum cichlid formula (I've fed them this in the past), NLS food that is very small, didn't touch it. She darts toward the food like any normal fish would do but doesn't eat it, it just floats past her. She has no other symptoms at all and all of my other fish are still fine. She's in an uncycled tank and now I'm worried that I shouldn't have moved her out of the main tank as I battle ammonia, btw the way those ammonia patches don't work at all, the API test comes up a color I can't match with anything on the card, but I assume it falls between the top 2 readings. I'm thinking I should put her back in the main tank and continue to try and get her to eat something. I thought maybe because she was shy, the other fish were eating everything before she could get it, but now that she's alone, I see that she's just not eating more than a bite each night.

 

[citymouse]

oh and I gave her garlic kale, also didn't touch it.

 

[4FordFamily]

Try live blackworms. Order them online if yo have to. The sooner you add them, the better your chances of getting fish to eat. Good luck!

 

[Humblefish]

btw the way those ammonia patches don't work at all, the API test comes up a color I can't match with anything on the card, but I assume it falls between the top 2 readings.

You have to view the ammonia alert badge under a bright white light to see it's true reading. It always looks sorta green under ambient light.

 

[citymouse]

You have to view the ammonia alert badge under a bright white light to see it's true reading. It always looks sorta green under ambient light.

This one has never changed color, it's still a white or light yellow shade. I use the testing kit instead, hoping it's accurate.