Coral beauty possible velvet

Claus84 · Jan 19, 2018

Hello all,

This hobby gets more and more frustrating to me at the moment and I was hoping once again for some advice.

I have a coral beauty as the only fish in my 55g FOWLR which I believe has velvet, may be Ich but as the treatment is the same I am planning for the worse.

I have an 18g QT running but it currently houses an orchid dottyback and kole tang which I was planning on treating with CP followed by prazi (haven't started either yet). The QT has 2 power filters so I could set a bucket up for the angel with heater and powerfilter. The trouble with this is I am low on CP and not sure I can get any more yet (Vet won't help me so I am using leftover Avloclor from a recent holiday). My questions are:

- Should I risk adding the affected coral beauty to this QT and treat all fish at 40mg/l? I am concerned there may be some squabbling with the tang in such a small space.
- Is there a risk, in a QT pre-medicated at 40mg/l that the angel could pass infection on to the other 2 fish once introduced?

Thanks in advance

Nick

Claus84 · Jan 19, 2018

Claus84 said:
Hello all,

This hobby gets more and more frustrating to me at the moment and I was hoping once again for some advice.

I have a coral beauty as the only fish in my 55g FOWLR which I believe has velvet, may be Ich but as the treatment is the same I am planning for the worse.

I have an 18g QT running but it currently houses an orchid dottyback and kole tang which I was planning on treating with CP followed by prazi (haven't started either yet). The QT has 2 power filters so I could set a bucket up for the angel with heater and powerfilter. The trouble with this is I am low on CP and not sure I can get any more yet (Vet won't help me so I am using leftover Avloclor from a recent holiday). My questions are:

- Should I risk adding the affected coral beauty to this QT and treat all fish at 40mg/l? I am concerned there may be some squabbling with the tang in such a small space.
- Is there a risk, in a QT pre-medicated at 40mg/l that the angel could pass infection on to the other 2 fish once introduced?

Thanks in advance

Nick

Update - I have sourced more CP tablets, my current plan now is to transfer the infected angel and the non infected tang and dotty to a 20g qt and treat them all together. Also in my first post I meant to say 40mg/gallon not litre, that would be a lot of CP!

Smo · Jan 19, 2018

Not ideal to introduce a known infected fish with others that may not be infected. But if it is your only option better to act quickly in an attempt to save your angel.

Humblefish · Jan 19, 2018

Smo said:
Not ideal to introduce a known infected fish with others that may not be infected. But if it is your only option better to act quickly in an attempt to save your angel.

+1

Claus84 · Jan 19, 2018

Thanks, I have just fw dipped and the fish is now in a heated, aerated bucket. I could only find pond strength acriflavin which did not specify %product so I have adeed myxazin to the bucket, which is a combo of acriflavine and malachite green with a small amount of formalin too i believe.

Presumably this is still safe to use? Any issues with me transferring from myxazin to CP??

Humblefish · Jan 19, 2018

Claus84 said:
Presumably this is still safe to use? Any issues with me transferring from myxazin to CP??

Shouldn't be, but pull the fish out of the bath at the first signs of distress. Acriflavine by itself is relatively mild to use, but some fish react adversely to malachite green.

Claus84 · Jan 19, 2018

Humblefish said:
Shouldn't be, but pull the fish out of the bath at the first signs of distress. Acriflavine by itself is relatively mild to use, but some fish react adversely to malachite green.

Great,thanks. I am keeping a good eye on it and so far seems to be okay after 35mins. I was planning on using all 6 of the CP tabs I have at the moment, equating to around 930mg of CP base, if my calculations are correst this should put my 20g QT at around 46mg/g, hopefully this will be sufficient for now!

Claus84 · Jan 19, 2018

Actually I have just second guessed myself at the last minute, the packet says 'each tablet contains 250mg of Chloroquine phosphate (equivalent of 155mg of chloroquine base)'

I was working on the assumption that its the 155mg base that is important, have i got that right so 6 tablets are equivalent to 930mg CP??

Humblefish · Jan 19, 2018

Claus84 said:
I was working on the assumption that its the 155mg base that is important, have i got that right so 6 tablets are equivalent to 930mg CP??

That is correct. Always dose according to the chloroquine base when using the tablets.

Claus84 · Jan 19, 2018

Humblefish said:
That is correct. Always dose according to the chloroquine base when using the tablets.

Great, thanks for the quick response, much appreciated. The coral beauty has had a 5 min temp/ph adjusted fw dip followed by a 90min myxazin bath at a fairly low concentration and both angel, tang and dottyback are all in the 20g pre-dosed with 45mg/G of CP. They all seem okay so far so fingers crossed.

I also want to say thanks for your awesome guides to both CP and velvet, they have been a huge help to me and i'm sure countless other people on R2R!

Out of interest do you have any experience with the NT Labs brand of acriflavine? It seems to be the only one readily available here in the UK but as the website states its for pond use only I am guessing the concentration is way higher than the 6% found in Acriflavine MS.

Humblefish · Jan 19, 2018

Claus84 said:
Out of interest do you have any experience with the NT Labs brand of acriflavine? It seems to be the only one readily available here in the UK but as the website states its for pond use only I am guessing the concentration is way higher than the 6% found in Acriflavine MS.

No experience with that product, but can you get Ruby Reef Rally over there? It contains acriflavine and aminoacridine (two antiseptics). Very useful as a bath treatment, for helping to prevent/control a bacterial infection (antibiotics in QT are still required to treat an active infection).

Claus84 · Jan 20, 2018

Humblefish said:
No experience with that product, but can you get Ruby Reef Rally over there? It contains acriflavine and aminoacridine (two antiseptics). Very useful as a bath treatment, for helping to prevent/control a bacterial infection (antibiotics in QT are still required to treat an active infection).

Unfortunately I don't think Rally is available over here. I'll see if I can get a SDS from NT labs for the acriflavine for future. reference.

Re the antibiotics I have kana and metro but the 48 hour wc's will be a problem until my additional CP arrives. Could I potentially skip the water changes for a few days and add prime to detoxify any possible ammonia spikes?
it seems seachem have advised people with fw tanks to use the two together but I know mixing conditioners and meds is generally not a good idea.

Humblefish · Jan 20, 2018

Claus84 said:
Re the antibiotics I have kana and metro but the 48 hour wc's will be a problem until my additional CP arrives. Could I potentially skip the water changes for a few days and add prime to detoxify any possible ammonia spikes?

Mixing an ammonia reducer with any medication can be dicey. Copper is a definite no-no, but with other medications it's more hit-or-miss. I mixed Prime with Kanaplex + Metroplex + Furan-2 half a dozen times and everything was fine. And then one morning I woke up to a QT full of dead fish.

Claus84 · Jan 20, 2018

Humblefish said:
Mixing an ammonia reducer with any medication can be dicey. Copper is a definite no-no, but with other medications it's more hit-or-miss. I mixed Prime with Kanaplex + Metroplex + Furan-2 half a dozen times and everything was fine. And then one morning I woke up to a QT full of dead fish.

Oh wow thats horrible, must have been a shock after your previous success with the mix, I won't take the risk then. The angel is active and picking at bits of food, so far so good. I may give it another day before dosing the kana as I need to be 100% on the filtration first. I'm getting a slight ammonia reading from an API kit but I read on another of your posts that is to be expected with CP, my ammo badge is yellow so fingers crossed it'll all work out!

Thanks

Nick

Claus84 · Jan 22, 2018

Humblefish said:
Mixing an ammonia reducer with any medication can be dicey. Copper is a definite no-no, but with other medications it's more hit-or-miss. I mixed Prime with Kanaplex + Metroplex + Furan-2 half a dozen times and everything was fine. And then one morning I woke up to a QT full of dead fish.

Hmm have you noticed appetite suppression from CP at 40mg/g? My kole tang hasn't eaten since I started the CP, at first I thought it was just the move to a new QT but yesterday it took some flake in and just held it in its mouth for a while then spat it out. Getting slightly concerned it might be the effects of the CP.

Humblefish · Jan 22, 2018

Claus84 said:
Hmm have you noticed appetite suppression from CP at 40mg/g? My kole tang hasn't eaten since I started the CP, at first I thought it was just the move to a new QT but yesterday it took some flake in and just held it in its mouth for a while then spat it out. Getting slightly concerned it might be the effects of the CP.

With a few fish here & there; but with the vast majority of fish I experimented on, I didn't see any appetite suppression until CP reached 80mg/gal.

Claus84 · Jan 22, 2018

Humblefish said:
With a few fish here & there; but with the vast majority of fish I experimented on, I didn't see any appetite suppression until CP reached 80mg/gal.

Okay thanks, I'll just keep an eye on the tang and move it in a couple of days if it doesnt start eating again

Claus84 · Jan 24, 2018

My tang still isn't eating properly, it ate a couple of bits of flake as soon as they hit the surface today but anything that's in the water for a more than a second it spits out, it went around and picked at every bit of garlic/vitamin enriched brine that hit the bottom of the tank and spat them all out. I guess its the taste of the CP that is the issue once it has been absorbed by the food. It's also very skittish which doesn't help when trying to feed it, I have only had it for a fortnight but it was almost eating flake out of my hand pre CP in my other QT. I think another factor may be that my smaller QT was on a stand whereas the 20g they are in now is on the floor so the different perspective may take some getting used to.

I'm at a bit of a loss now, I don't think I have much choice but to pull the tang out, its now gone 5 days without eating. I would be willing to set my 16g QT back up just for the tang but I'm not sure how I would treat it, I can't really do TTM due to work commitments, from reading R2R sounds like hypo is ineffective and I have read that kole's don't react well to copper so I may be running out of options.

Any suggestions appreciated, it would be a real shame to take it back to the shop but rather that than have it waste away or risk introducing a potentially infected fish to my DT.

Thanks

Humblefish · Jan 24, 2018

How long has the tang been in CP thus far? If 10 days or more, you can move him to another QT (at least 10 feet away) and parasite treatment should have been successful. Do not reuse ANYTHING from QT#1 to setup QT#2.

Claus84 · Jan 25, 2018

Humblefish said:
How long has the tang been in CP thus far? If 10 days or more, you can move him to another QT (at least 10 feet away) and parasite treatment should have been successful. Do not reuse ANYTHING from QT#1 to setup QT#2.

It's been 6 days so far, do you think its worth waiting it out? I'm not sure how long tangs can go without a decent meal.

Alternatively I may have figured a TTM plan that would work with my schedule if i were to start today and transfer Day 1, 4, 7, 10, 12 & 14.

Thanks

Nick