Coral Boring Spionid Worms- Anybody Killed them?

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

For me, I didn’t do any treatments. I removed the birds nest rock, and never put it back. I had 2 other rocks similar to that one. I chiseled every last one to dust. I stopped dosing phyto and it’s not anywhere as noticeable as it was in my pic.

Here is my question for the group:

I’m doing a tank consolidation. I have a new 400g peninsula on its way. I can easily put on my rock (with and or without coral grown onto) in the new tank along with the 150 pounds of new TBS rock and the 250 pounds of TBS sand and do a treatment to that. Should I consider that?

 

[Dburr1014]

Help please. They are in some rather expensive acans. I have plucked with tweezers grabbing the base of the tube and they come back in a week. Done this twice. followed by dip in revive after time 1 and coral rx after plucking 2

I have investigated the tank and don’t see them anywhere else. Don’t think whole tank fragment is needed and these frags are small. These buggers definitely live inside the rock

Only recommend as a dip.

 

[Reefahholic]

I had a raja rampage I was growing out from frag to 8” disk and they bored holes right through the middle about 5 months ago. Put large holes right in the middle of the colony. I used gorilla super glue and glued up the live rock holes they lived in. The chalice spent the next 6 months growing larger and larger and the holes were recovering. Then out of the blue for no reason I can identify, the whole colony rapidly declined and I lost it. I feel it was infection caused by their damage, or they were coming back. I tossed the rock

I have seen them get in a acro base, and if left alone long enough they kill the inside of the base. I’ve got in there to dig and scrape them out and as I begin to remove the tissue where the cluster is, it’s all completely dead and dry under that area. It’s like a big hole under there on some pieces that you can’t see from the top.

 

[Reefahholic]

For me, I didn’t do any treatments. I removed the birds nest rock, and never put it back. I had 2 other rocks similar to that one. I chiseled every last one to dust. I stopped dosing phyto and it’s not anywhere as noticeable as it was in my pic.

Here is my question for the group:

I’m doing a tank consolidation. I have a new 400g peninsula on its way. I can easily put on my rock (with and or without coral grown onto) in the new tank along with the 150 pounds of new TBS rock and the 250 pounds of TBS sand and do a treatment to that. Should I consider that?

I think the majority of mine came from Florida rock. Personally as beneficial as LR is…in the future I’ll dip or treat all my rock. However, all it takes is a few to survive. That’s why I’m really trying to get a small in-tank treatment dose worked out. Not only will it kill Spionid worms, but red, black, white, and grey bugs. It also kills Limpet snails which drive me nuts. I’m more of a SPS guy, and for me this is more interesting than it might be to others. Having a tank with almost zero pests, but thriving acro colonies is tempting. It does seem to be a big issue for some LPS also apparently. I think spionid are opportunistic. Not sure they really target a particular species. They just screw up whatever is in their path.

 

[Reefahholic]

Only recommend as a dip.

Same here. Do not treat your tank!

Understand that everything will die! Only the Acro’s seem to tolerate and come back better than ever.

The problem is that many of us CAN’T remove larger encrusted colonies to dip them. Plus, in my case, the only way I’ll get the Spionid’s out, and kill the massive Limpet population is to treat my whole tank which I may end up doing. I’m just gathering data and trying to calculate the dose I want to use.

 

[Dburr1014]

Same here. Do not treat your tank!

Understand that everything will die! Only the Acro’s seem to tolerate and come back better than ever.

The problem is that many of us CAN’T remove larger encrusted colonies to dip them. Plus, in my case, the only way I’ll get the Spionid’s out, and kill the massive Limpet population is to treat my whole tank which I may end up doing. I’m just gathering data and trying to calculate the dose I want to use.

I used 1.5ml per 12 gallons as a dip and the rock went into my new system after some GAC.

Post in thread 'Safe Interceptor Dose | Coral Boring Spionid Worms.' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...al-boring-spionid-worms.1016413/post-12502892

I think *if* you were to do in tank, this dose can easily be for 25 gallons.
I would think you would have to dose really low and wait to see what's happening to the worms. Maybe start at 0.5ml, Keep slowly dosing every 10~15 minutes until the worms start dropping and stop and immediately add GAC and start skimmer. It would be a hugh risk though.

 

[Reef-Engineer]

Great read here. I suffered from these guys in my last tank. I second the impact of them stunting the SPS growth. Color would be fine, but they just would not grow once they were infested. Spent all their time trying to encrust over the tubes or deal with the boring. I tried to take a hands-off approach figuring the SPS would be fine, but over years I saw some corals just sit there and do nothing, while the worms just spread.

I'll definitely plan to dip any incoming in ivermectin per the instructions here if I see any of these guys. With any luck they aren't on the liverock already...

 

[Reefahholic]

I tried to take a hands-off approach figuring the SPS would be fine, but over years I saw some corals just sit there and do nothing, while the worms just spread.

Yep, same here. They’re in almost every base of 40+ Acro’s. I’ve epoxy putty them several times, but they coming up through it. I’ve treated frags in ivermectin dip and killed them, but they get reinfected later with new worms. Tank is still growing, but it’s slowing down several nice pieces. I’m not one to do crazy treatments, but this time may be the time I risk it all. Even if I have to start over, I know the corals will be thriving and worm free, and with the tank being 2.5 yrs now…anything added will just start to take off because they won’t be dealing with worms boring into their base or skeletons. I may start with 1-2mL per 100/G volume. Watch closely every 30 minutes and increase the dose until I get the desired results. I think it’s important to set up the room and be well prepared before you start, but also start early in the morning. I definitely want to keep the skimmer running with as much aeration and oxygenation as possible. I will just keep the cup off and put a bowl over the top of the skimmer. I’m sure the bubbles are going to be a big problem, but maybe I can turn it on and off periodically to keep the oxygen going. Also could use a shop vac to suck out excessive foam if it comes to that which I suspect it will especially at higher doses. I just think having a good couple of fine mesh dip nets, carbon, plenty of water change water, a garbage can near, siphon hose ready, filter socks, floss, power filter, etc…will really help keep the nutrients down in the next 24-72 hrs. You just need to collect all the death, because it will be massive. I will also set up a quarantine tank for the fish to quickly net them out and get them in untreated water so they can recover if they go down.

The great thing is that after all the death is over, the second treatment is a breeze. That’s if you even need a second treatment. The Fish are already in a quarantine tank. Everything else is dead. Then you can easily slowly ramp up the dose to wherever you want it to make sure you absolutely nuke every worm w/o stressing the corals with one large “one time” dose.

Just a thought, but if using a higher dose… maybe dose in increments of 20-30 minutes until you hit the target instead of dosing 15 to 20 mL’s at one time. That way the corals kinda get used to it gradually instead of like one initial shock dose.

I may even run it through my GHL. 150 x 0.1 mL. That would do about 7.5 mL in 12 hrs. Dosing 0.1 mL every 10 minutes are so. Watch the tank all day and see how it responds. That would definitely be less stressful on the fish and corals until the potency reached a certain point.

 

[Reef-Engineer]

@Reefahholic would you then basically do a 100% water change after 12 hours, and then another big one after 24 while running lots of carbon?

I feel for you here, because I know how much it sucks to put lots of work into a tank to have the SPS do little/nothing since they have such a bad infection, and then to know that you cant just get others, because the problem is the rock.

That being said, and hear me out, what if we remove your rock?

1.All of it. Put it in tubs.
2. Put fish in another tub (easy to catch once rock out at night)
3. Maybe Treat Tank to get any living in substrate or on surfaces, maybe not.
4. With just rock/coral in the tub, treat the tub. Water change after.
5. Put new rock in tank, cycle should be fast (ish) with existing substrate?
6. Put fish back in, then put only dipped SPS back into tank, none of the old rock (in case there are any worms in deep).

I bet lots of reefers around you have tubs they could loan? I am just trying to think of any way other than the "expect a lot of death" method, because your beloved SPS may die if the nutrients spike to 20482304 ppm.

 

[Dburr1014]

@Reefahholic would you then basically do a 100% water change after 12 hours, and then another big one after 24 while running lots of carbon?

I feel for you here, because I know how much it sucks to put lots of work into a tank to have the SPS do little/nothing since they have such a bad infection, and then to know that you cant just get others, because the problem is the rock.

That being said, and hear me out, what if we remove your rock?

1.All of it. Put it in tubs.
2. Put fish in another tub (easy to catch once rock out at night)
3. Maybe Treat Tank to get any living in substrate or on surfaces, maybe not.
4. With just rock/coral in the tub, treat the tub. Water change after.
5. Put new rock in tank, cycle should be fast (ish) with existing substrate?
6. Put fish back in, then put only dipped SPS back into tank, none of the old rock (in case there are any worms in deep).

I bet lots of reefers around you have tubs they could loan? I am just trying to think of any way other than the "expect a lot of death" method, because your beloved SPS may die if the nutrients spike to 20482304 ppm.

Your points;

1) good idea
2) once the rock is out you wouldn't need to
3) see #2
4) another good idea. This is kinda what I did but just moved them to a clean water tub.
5) what's the point? You just cleaned the rock.
6) SPS would be totally encrusted on the rock and the Ivermectin will get into the Rock through all the tubes and crannies and holes. It's extremely hard to get encrusted SPS off a rock.

 

[Reefahholic]

@Reefahholic would you then basically do a 100% water change after 12 hours, and then another big one after 24 while running lots of carbon?

I’m just kind of wondering if you even need a water change if the dose is low enough? The corals don’t seem to be affected by it, but with that being said, I probably would do one after 8-12 hours. Maybe 24?

I feel for you here, because I know how much it sucks to put lots of work into a tank to have the SPS do little/nothing since they have such a bad infection, and then to know that you cant just get others, because the problem is the rock.

The corals are growing. Not all corals have them in the skeleton. I mean the tank is progressing. The problem is I’m not happy every time I look at the bases and see the worms everywhere. I want them to be thriving as much as possible w/o any interference. I want the bases to look healthy for pics.

I bet lots of reefers around you have tubs they could loan? I am just trying to think of any way other than the "expect a lot of death" method, because your beloved SPS may die if the nutrients spike to 20482304 ppm.

I would just go to tractor supply and get a big tub if I was going to go that route, I could probably mitigate the nutrient spike a little better in the main system, but I think as long as you collect enough death, perform water changes, and check nutrients frequently you can still reduce the spike enough so that corals don’t die. You just need to have all the items I mentioned above like filter floss, filter socks, power filter, siphon hose, mesh dip nets (LG and SM), garbage can close by, fish quarantine set up, etc.


If I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna treat the whole thing, because I know the Limpet snails are all in my piping, pumps, skimmer, I really want to get those little turds too. And I know from dipping a lot of fags it kills them dead. I’ll have to siphon out about 1000 of those things. But if you start in the morning, make some coffee, have everything ready and planned, know that your day is going to be 12 hours. You’re good to go.

 

[Reefahholic]

A lot of the pods, brittle stars, etc…will die in the rock, under the rocks, or get stuck under the rocks. That is why it’s important to collect as much death as possible, because nutrients are gonna start elevating after 24-72 hrs. This is why you’d want to get some base line nutrient values, but also for Alk and Ca. I don’t think Ca will matter too much at all, but it would be nice just to kinda see what Ca is doing also. Mg shouldn’t be affected much. If I do this, and I definitely plan to, and understand the risk of loosing it all and needing to start over…I’ll be collecting data every 2 hrs initially for first 6 hrs. I’ll get a baseline at 7am let’s say (N, P, Alk, & Ca). Then test N, P, Alk at 9am, 11am, and 1pm. Then test every 6-8 hrs after that to see what the tank is actually doing for the next 24 hrs, but also test 2x daily for the next 3-4 days until the system stabilizes with carbon and water changes
watching for the nutrient spike.


My Friend said pH wasn’t affected too much, but usually if fish are dying there’s an oxygenation issue. Did anybody see a pH drop on their monitor? Would also like to know if the Alk was affected? Apparently, changes to chemistry have been minimal from what I’ve seen so far as all the corals rebound “like magic” and “better than ever” they say.

Makes you wonder what is the ivermectin really doing? Has to be killing some of the bad bacteria in the water column that’s irritating the corals. The question is how much is it killing and how much bacteria is left over afterwards. You have to think of all the guys hitting their tanks with Cipro. How much bacteria do we really need.? I carbon dose and utilize bacteria as a food for the corals, but I find it does a great job keeping the tank stable. However, when I ask my friend if any changes to the stability of the tank… like anything unstable or weird algae blooms or swings….his response is “nothing bro.” Several times I ask this question. He’s not some idiot either. He’s a Physician from Vietnam. Never underestimate a Vietnamese man with reef tank. Haha. Every tank is different though. My current tank has been a very strange system. I’m assuming the worse will probably happen, but hoping for the best.

So yeah…I’ll be happy to do some pre/post Aquabiomics testing if that guy wants to send me a few for research purposes. Let me know and I’ll document and get it done before I dose and do the 2nd one on the 3rd after treatment or similar. Would be really interesting to see what all dies as far as bacteria is concerned. Maybe nothing….maybe some, but maybe everything.?

I just orderd (2) large mesh fish nets, and will be getting my (2) 44/G brutes ready for water changes. I ordered some Red Sea Blue salt tonight, and have about 1/2 of a 175/G bucket ready to go already. Will also get (2) Power-filters ready to go. Will make sure that the Sera filter wool is very thin for good suction power to grab the dead pods, worms, brittle stars, limpets, etc. Will put one Power-Filter on each side of the tank. Will also deploy (1) 8” Red Sea Filter cup with Sera wool in the sump. I’ll make up a few batches of fresh Carbon. Trying to decide if I want to use a mesh bag in drain section, or use a fluidized reactor. Thoughts? Will get the Fish hospital tank ready and probably transfer some of my Pods over with the fish to add back later. Maybe I’ll dip everything on the frag racks and on the bottom of my tank and put all of that in the 40B hospital tank with the fish. That should help me restart with clean frags should the tank go south.

Other than that…I think I’ll be pouring coffee at 7am here soon…and let the fun begin.

I’m just kinda at that point where I don’t really care what happens, and my curiosity has gotten the best of me. I want to see it in my own tank and deal with it myself so that I can document it and maybe help others in the future.

 

[Vested]

A lot of the pods, brittle stars, etc…will die in the rock, under the rocks, or get stuck under the rocks. That is why it’s important to collect as much death as possible, because nutrients are gonna start elevating after 24-72 hrs. This is why you’d want to get some base line nutrient values, but also for Alk and Ca. I don’t think Ca will matter too much at all, but it would be nice just to kinda see what Ca is doing also. Mg shouldn’t be affected much. If I do this, and I definitely plan to, and understand the risk of loosing it all and needing to start over…I’ll be collecting data every 2 hrs initially for first 6 hrs. I’ll get a baseline at 7am let’s say (N, P, Alk, & Ca). Then test N, P, Alk at 9am, 11am, and 1pm. Then test every 6-8 hrs after that to see what the tank is actually doing for the next 24 hrs, but also test 2x daily for the next 3-4 days until the system stabilizes with carbon and water changes
watching for the nutrient spike.


My Friend said pH wasn’t affected too much, but usually if fish are dying there’s an oxygenation issue. Did anybody see a pH drop on their monitor? Would also like to know if the Alk was affected? Apparently, changes to chemistry have been minimal from what I’ve seen so far as all the corals rebound “like magic” and “better than ever” they say.

Makes you wonder what is the ivermectin really doing? Has to be killing some of the bad bacteria in the water column that’s irritating the corals. The question is how much is it killing and how much bacteria is left over afterwards. You have to think of all the guys hitting their tanks with Cipro. How much bacteria do we really need.? I carbon dose and utilize bacteria as a food for the corals, but I find it does a great job keeping the tank stable. However, when I ask my friend if any changes to the stability of the tank… like anything unstable or weird algae blooms or swings….his response is “nothing bro.” Several times I ask this question. He’s not some idiot either. He’s a Physician from Vietnam. Never underestimate a Vietnamese man with reef tank. Haha. Every tank is different though. My current tank has been a very strange system. I’m assuming the worse will probably happen, but hoping for the best.

So yeah…I’ll be happy to do some pre/post Aquabiomics testing if that guy wants to send me a few for research purposes. Let me know and I’ll document and get it done before I dose and do the 2nd one on the 3rd after treatment or similar. Would be really interesting to see what all dies as far as bacteria is concerned. Maybe nothing….maybe some, but maybe everything.?

I just orderd (2) large mesh fish nets, and will be getting my (2) 44/G brutes ready for water changes. I ordered some Red Sea Blue salt tonight, and have about 1/2 of a 175/G bucket ready to go already. Will also get (2) Power-filters ready to go. Will make sure that the Sera filter wool is very thin for good suction power to grab the dead pods, worms, brittle stars, limpets, etc. Will put one Power-Filter on each side of the tank. Will also deploy (1) 8” Red Sea Filter cup with Sera wool in the sump. I’ll make up a few batches of fresh Carbon. Trying to decide if I want to use a mesh bag in drain section, or use a fluidized reactor. Thoughts? Will get the Fish hospital tank ready and probably transfer some of my Pods over with the fish to add back later. Maybe I’ll dip everything on the frag racks and on the bottom of my tank and put all of that in the 40B hospital tank with the fish. That should help me restart with clean frags should the tank go south.


Other than that…I think I’ll be pouring coffee at 7am here soon…and let the fun begin.

It’ll prolly go something like this…

7am…dose 1mL 1% ivermectin.
Observe for deaths.
No death…
7:30am dose another 1mL ivermectin.
Observe…
Limpet snails crawling around drunk.
8am dose another 1mL ivermectin.
9am….OH SH|T grab the mesh net….Test parameters.
9:15am Acro’s loose PE.
9:30am….I can’t believe my eyes!!!
10am…Skimmer is out of control…
10:30am….HELP!
10:45 Acro PE back, but slimming.
11am…Spionid worms hanging from tubes…test parameters.
12am…make second coffee and breathe…
1pm…Wow…didn’t realize I had AEFW, Red Bugs, White bugs, etc…
2am change clogged Power filters and filter cup in the sump…
2pm…Acro look better than before treatment started…
3pm…take deep breath…relax. Make another coffee.

How does the plan sound so far???

I’m just kinda at that point where I don’t really care what happens, and my curiosity has gotten the best of me. I want to see it in my own tank and deal with it myself so that I can document it and help others later.

Sounds like a stressful couple days lol, goodluck appreciate you sharing how it goes.

 

[Reefahholic]

Your points;

1) good idea
2) once the rock is out you wouldn't need to
4) another good idea. This is kinda what I did but just moved them to a clean water tub.

Not a good idea!!

The Spionid worms are on multiple surfaces inside the tank. Mostly on the rocks, but they’re also on the bottom of my tank, frag plugs, overflow box, etc..the flow carries them or they’re crawling around the tank.

IMO, the entire system needs to be NUKED especially in my case.

On the surface it sounds like a great idea and I have two independent aquascapes that are easily removable and cemented with E-Macro that I can lift out no problem, but I don’t want to waste my time only to have them return to my corals once again as I’ve seen that after dipping and 100% killing the worms only to have new worms find and infect them later on.

If I were to remove and dip these two scapes…for sure in just a few months the worms that are still in the system will find the corals again, and we’re back to square one. Not to mention I want to nuke all the Limpet snails with them.

 

[Reefahholic]

Sounds like a stressful couple days lol, goodluck appreciate you sharing how it goes.

Yeah, but if the tank doesn’t crash…it will be so nice not to see a worm in the base of the corals or coming up in the skeleton. I’m almost more excited to nuke 1,000 Limpet snails, and completely eradicate them from my system 100%. That will bring joy to my life, and even if the system crashes…I think that alone will give me all the satisfaction I need to restart. I’m not sure why they bug me so much. They’re harmless, but they get on every plug, they’re all over the starboard bottom. They stick to the frag plugs and get underneath them. I can’t easily slide things around because they’re stuck to the bottom everywhere. They’re just freaking annoying. Can’t wait to siphon them all out.

I doubt the corals will die. I think the majority will survive no problem. I’ve dipped enough frags to know they really don’t care about ivermectin even at insanely high dose’s. I’m kinda wondering what is making them slim and loose all PE initially inside the DT.? I don’t remember them doing this in the dips. Maybe a little PE reduction because the coral is moved to dip, but nothing crazy. It must be from the death in the tank. Maybe the dying bacteria in the water column.? There’s no nutrient spike initially so I’m not sure what is stressing them for that first hour. They seem to rebound quickly though.

 

[Reefahholic]

Checklist…I believe I’m ready. Haha.

 

[Vested]

Not a good idea!!

The Spionid worms are on multiple surfaces inside the tank. Mostly on the rocks, but they’re also on the bottom of my tank, frag plugs, overflow box, etc..the flow carries them or they’re crawling around the tank.

IMO, the entire system needs to be NUKED especially in my case.

On the surface it sounds like a great idea and I have two independent aquascapes that are easily removable and cemented with E-Macro that I can lift out no problem, but I don’t want to waste my time only to have them return to my corals once again as I’ve seen that after dipping and 100% killing the worms only to have new worms find and infect them later on.

If I were to remove and dip these two scapes…for sure in just a few months the worms that are still in the system will find the corals again, and we’re back to square one. Not to mention I want to nuke all the Limpet snails with them.

If you do ever remove your entire scape, cover the tops of the shelfs (where you would put coral) with sand and very thin super glue. It makes a really hard almost plastic surface that the worms at least cant get into from the base.

 

[Reefahholic]

If you do ever remove your entire scape, cover the tops of the shelfs (where you would put coral) with sand and very thin super glue. It makes a really hard almost plastic surface that the worms at least cant get into from the base.

I did that. The whole scape is like that. Cyanoacrylate super thin with sand and Marco powder. The little turds still bore through it. I think they secrete an acid to bore with.

 

[Vested]

I did that. The whole scape is like that. Cyanoacrylate super thin with sand and Marco powder. The little turds still bore through it. I think they secrete an acid to bore with.

Are you kidding? Wow. I hate them

 

[Reefahholic]

This is how elusive they are, and why nobody knows that they’re in their system. These are newborn babies just ready to infect your SPS. As you could probably imagine doing an in- tank treatment is about the only way to eradicate them. I’ve been able to find them in about every system I’ve visited locally. That Acro you’ve been waiting on to grow for two years that’s not doing anything might just have these in the skeleton or base irritating it.



Normal snail?? Think again!

Boom…. Stealthy!