Coral prices?

[mainereefer]

not sure where to post this but here we go

I am wondering where ppl come up with their prices for corals?

I was looking at a site the other day that showed some sweet chalices along with that it showed some sold chalices and had links to the us vendors that bought them and were selling frags. I thought that was cool, until I saw the prices the "local" stores were selling them for.

my favorite was a red and blue chalice the site was selling a large 7"x4" piece with about 70 -100 eyes for 95 euro thats about 119 u.s. the site here in the us was selling it for $700 per eye!
or football size acros that sell for 85 euro and the lfs here sell it for $85 per 1.5"frag


is this normal practice? is their really this much of a mark up?

 

[Quinn123]

I have to agree with u on this, I have seen 1,500.00 per eye, and a grand on a hammer coral

 

[KLR]

I have noticed the varied prices when comparing North America and Europe. I am not sure why they are so different but I would assume it is because hobbyist in Europe enjoy saltwater aquariums for their soothing, elegant, and natural looks while the people that sell corals in America for $$$$ are in the hobby to have the best collection of corals. I am not bashing either side, and I am one of the Americans who does like the hobby for the collecting side of it.

That is just what I would assume on the situation, but I have absolutely no evidence to back up the European perspective on the hobby.


However another point of view may be that the hobby has not became a big market in Europe like it has in North America. Perhaps there is absolutely no interest in 1/2in. frags for $500+ so no coral suppliers in Europe offer them because they know they would not sell. If they can sell 10 colonies for $100 each and sell out, why would they sit on 1 frag of one of those colonies marked at $1,000 when it will not sell?

Once again this is just an assumption.

 

[mainereefer]

just makes me want to order everything the euro site has and sell them with the 1/3rd markup every other regular store sells things for.

no more 1/2" frags with a 1500% markup!! looks like us hobbyists need to protest.
along with others I thought it cost more because it cost them more? I guess I am to honest to have a frag site

 

[wysiwyg]

unfortunately its not the sellers coming up with the prices there just selling there frags for what they know people are willing to pay or what they have sold them for in the past. and that is probally why the gap in pricing is so differnet between the us and europe. the coral keeping hobby in the usa might have a higher demand for high end corals which will also elevate prices. cant speak much about europes coral keeping hobby so it would be nice if they could chime in and let us know what its like across the pond

 

[strange33w]

I would say it’s our fault because like said before wepay it. It is shown every time a person puts up a chalice frag that’s like .25inches with one eye for several hundred dollars and someone always says wowwhat a deal and then it gets sold within a few hours. The prices will not comedown till people stop paying these prices. This is the main reason why I haveno chalices or plan to add any in the near future. It was like this with acansa few years ago.

 

[mainereefer]

unfortunately its not the sellers coming up with the prices there just selling there frags for what they know people are willing to pay or what they have sold them for in the past. and that is probally why the gap in pricing is so differnet between the us and europe. the coral keeping hobby in the usa might have a higher demand for high end corals which will also elevate prices. cant speak much about europes coral keeping hobby so it would be nice if they could chime in and let us know what its like across the pond

not talking about the hobbyist buying and selling a frag, I am talking about the company that buys multiple chalice colony's for $100 with 50+ eyes and cuts it up and sells it for $300-$750 per eye or z's&p's or...........
then its the new craze because it has a cool name and is expensive not because it is rare, then everyone that already has the coral tries to capitalize starting a war with the frag shop because of price/name/origin.............

I have to find the link to the site where 3 "chop shops" get there livestock.
hope its not a problem with the frag shops or will it be a problem because they are sponsors here?

 

[m and m]

This thread appears about every week or so.

I think some one has misled you or you have gotten the wrong Impression alot of high dollar chalices dont come in with 50 plus eyes for 100 dollars. Wholesalers are not dumb they know when they have a one of a kind piece. When they get that jaw dropping colony in which in most cases is no more then four inches. 2-3 most the time they have there people they call. Which will do either do two things either sell it to a vender for a couple hundred dollars or say place a couple thousand dollar order and it's yours at a reasonable price. I on multiple occasions have bought mini colony's for over 1k wholesale the only way to make my money back is sell them for 300 dollars a eye. Ontop of recouping the initial investment I also have to cover sponsership fees, web site fees, elc a place to house my system it all adds up.

 

[cdness]

It is all the standard supply and demand model. There is such a high demand here for colorful named corals that the suppliers can charge what they want. Unfortunately this is a market controlled by you and I. I for one have not supported the high priced coral market and have zero plans to do so. If there is a coral I want, I will wait until it is affordable. All those "rare" chalices, zoas, etc don't look as pretty to me when zeros are added. For some people it's the opposite where they think the higher the price makes it cooler. To each their own I guess.

I would be interested in that link just for informational purposes. Please PM it to me if possible.

It all comes down to if you don't like the price, then don't buy it. This does come up many times and is the same old answer. Remember, every step along the way has a margin to make ends meet. Each step will increase the price. If it was a goldmine to buy and chop up corals, everyone would be doing it. It's just a business like all others with people making a living supplying corals to buyers.

 

[Dashiki]

They charge that much because this is a hobny and we are willin too pay.

Its the same as anything else thats a hobby. Baseball cards are nothing more than cardboard but people pay thousands for one they want.

I myself dont think i would pay 1500 or even 150 for an eye of a chalice but i could not say the same for a frag of a nice sps. Its all what you like and what you can afford. 250 for a frag of bali slimer is crazy but id pay 250 for that sweet rr avengers that sexy corals has.

 

[mainereefer]

ok this isnt the site I was talking about but look at the prices

40+ head blue with orange center acan wysiwyg $30
Oceanarium - Marine Aquarium Supplies

orange/purple chalice 50+ eyes $25
Oceanarium - Marine Aquarium Supplies

these are the norm prices for outside the u.s. frag market

trying to find the bookmark I had but there are 100's of sites outside the u.s. that "mislead" me about the u.s. prices lol
I was just on a Canadian site they were complaining about 1 of the 3 sites I am talking about saying "they need to get off the crack pipe"

if your bored just look threw this site anyone with a cites permit can ship to the u.s. without a problem
Tropical Fish Find Importers

 

[Jon Warner]

I just wanted to add something.

Back in the late 80's I was a jobber out of Los Angeles shipping/selling fish and corals to dealers nationwide. Back then you would see an order form for coral from the importer/collector and one line would be "Staghorn Coral" and the line under it would be "Colored Staghorn". If you ordered "Staghorn" you would get your basic brown twigs possibly with colored tips. But if you ordered "Colored Staghorn" you would get a variety of colorful SPS from A.Gemmifera to deep water SPS.

But within the last 10 years importers/collectors have seen the prices that dealers charge and have changed their marketing accordingly. I used to order "Large Hammer Coral, Colored" for like $14 + shpg and it would be a 10" beast of a metallic green hammer for maybe $25 landed.

Boy have things changed! I see selection lists from importers/collectors nowadays and they price accordingly now. I see like 6 different grades of chalices. They literally photograph chalices after collection in Australia and send pictures to prospective buyers... and the prices are sky-high. If it's a potential "Limited edition" type coral, it's a 4 figure price tag for the colony. They have educated their divers on how to collect, they dive and collect with LED blue flashlights... they LOOK FOR the nice stuff. And they always break up colonies of the super nice stuff.

So... bottom line is the demand for "ultra quality" pieces has led to some pretty outrageous pricing even at the wholesale level.

Oh and one MORE thing! You can't just see a screamin' chalice on a import list and order it and receive it. No, no... you have to be a loyal customer regularly and reliably buying his bread and butter common stuff before you are ALLOWED to buy the good stuff.

And one last thing... many wholesalers will buy 10 "not so great" colonies for every sweet one they get. So when you see that $100+ eye of a chalice I know it sounds ridiculous... but usually it wasn't that easy to get the mother colony.

 

[mainereefer]

This thread appears about every week or so.

I think some one has misled you or you have gotten the wrong Impression alot of high dollar chalices dont come in with 50 plus eyes for 100 dollars. Wholesalers are not dumb they know when they have a one of a kind piece. When they get that jaw dropping colony in which in most cases is no more then four inches. 2-3 most the time they have there people they call. Which will do either do two things either sell it to a vender for a couple hundred dollars or say place a couple thousand dollar order and it's yours at a reasonable price. I on multiple occasions have bought mini colony's for over 1k wholesale the only way to make my money back is sell them for 300 dollars a eye. Ontop of recouping the initial investment I also have to cover sponsership fees, web site fees, elc a place to house my system it all adds up.

yes this makes seance and thats not the case I am talking about
I am talking about I went to a site and they showed a pic of the coral on a wire rack sitting in the ocean with the price of that coral right on the pic. also they listed some of the companies they export to the top 3 were sponsors here so I wont go there. on top of that they showed sold corals and where you can get a frag of it the price mark up was in the 1000% range on most of the corals I looked at frags of

 

[KJAG]

I just wanted to add something.

Back in the late 80's I was a jobber out of Los Angeles shipping/selling fish and corals to dealers nationwide. Back then you would see an order form for coral from the importer/collector and one line would be "Staghorn Coral" and the line under it would be "Colored Staghorn". If you ordered "Staghorn" you would get your basic brown twigs possibly with colored tips. But if you ordered "Colored Staghorn" you would get a variety of colorful SPS from A.Gemmifera to deep water SPS.

But within the last 10 years importers/collectors have seen the prices that dealers charge and have changed their marketing accordingly. I used to order "Large Hammer Coral, Colored" for like $14 + shpg and it would be a 10" beast of a metallic green hammer for maybe $25 landed.

Boy have things changed! I see selection lists from importers/collectors nowadays and they price accordingly now. I see like 6 different grades of chalices. They literally photograph chalices after collection in Australia and send pictures to prospective buyers... and the prices are sky-high. If it's a potential "Limited edition" type coral, it's a 4 figure price tag for the colony. They have educated their divers on how to collect, they dive and collect with LED blue flashlights... they LOOK FOR the nice stuff. And they always break up colonies of the super nice stuff.

So... bottom line is the demand for "ultra quality" pieces has led to some pretty outrageous pricing even at the wholesale level.

Oh and one MORE thing! You can't just see a screamin' chalice on a import list and order it and receive it. No, no... you have to be a loyal customer regularly and reliably buying his bread and butter common stuff before you are ALLOWED to buy the good stuff.

And one last thing... many wholesalers will buy 10 "not so great" colonies for every sweet one they get. So when you see that $100+ eye of a chalice I know it sounds ridiculous... but usually it wasn't that easy to get the mother colony.

Well said. There's a vendor or two I refuse to buy from, but for the most part I have no issue with coral prices or the direction the hobbys going. Still plenty of low priced coral avail , but I don't mind throwing down some $ for a sick piece.

 

[CarolinaReefin]

To me Corals are not a huge market locally for anyone, at least my case it's several hours drive to just get to a LFS that even sells corals so yea the online world is all that there is for most of us making it a huge mark up market to cover cost.

 

[huuta]

i refuse to pay over $50 for a frag of anything.I don't have the the latest Mike this or Jerry that and my tank looks just as good as the next tank.I will pay higher prices for a colony but not frag.

 

[WesF]

ok this isnt the site I was talking about but look at the prices

40+ head blue with orange center acan wysiwyg $30
Oceanarium - Marine Aquarium Supplies

orange/purple chalice 50+ eyes $25
Oceanarium - Marine Aquarium Supplies

these are the norm prices for outside the u.s. frag market

trying to find the bookmark I had but there are 100's of sites outside the u.s. that "mislead" me about the u.s. prices lol
I was just on a Canadian site they were complaining about 1 of the 3 sites I am talking about saying "they need to get off the crack pipe"

if your bored just look threw this site anyone with a cites permit can ship to the u.s. without a problem
Tropical Fish Find Importers

Those 2 examples wouldn't be much more expensive here. They are both pretty ordinary.

But to answer your question on pricing, supply and demand determine the price. Vendors wouldn't be selling corals for high prices if people in the U.S. were not willing to pay it.

 

[mainereefer]

maybe its just me but "norm high" mark up is, part x 3. meaning if they pay $30 for a coral I can see paying $90 at the lfs.
thats to cover cost,shipping,profit
same goes with auto parts,furniture,food............ I live in maine, the best example I can think of is lobster. boat price is $1.25 per pound dock price is $2.50 a pound store price is $3.99 per pound.


I was looking at an acan that was almost exactly like the one in the link the lfs had it marked at $350

personally I have never payed more than $35 for any frag or $80 for any colony and I have quite a few "high end" or "ultra" corals
its great when I have had a coral for 3-4 years and then a big name frag shop releases it as their new ultra coral for $250 a polyp! yes that just happened to me, they even changed the name of their coral when they got it to what mine was called. but it did bump up the price of my polyps from $35 to $100 per polyp. I usually gave extras when ppl bought them because I pd $10 per polyp

 

[WesF]

Lobster is a great example. For us outside of the new England area the lobster doesn't even have a price on the menu when you go out to dinner. It simply says "market price". The price goes up when the demand increases and goes down when supply increases.

The market determines the price. If you sell corals and nobody buys anything because your prices are too high, you lower them until people start buying them. So the reason the prices are higher in the U.S. is because the demand is higher. It is the fundamentals of economics we are talking here.

 

[SPSjunky]

My advice would be to find a good local lfs if possible and try to build a relationship with them.I do my best not to buy coral online because i have a lfs(2 hour drive) that gets in nice corals and has pretty fair pricing.Ive been shopping there for a few years now and they make it worth my time when i drive down.Hope this helps.