Coral Pricing Justification

[787will]

Ok so im probably starting a discussion that may get some people hot under the collar and may even spark some debates, but its something that has been bothering me a while and recently the news of the Bounce Mushroom selling for 6K at RAP has started to grind my gears again.

I would like to hear what people think about coral prices nowadays. For me i think a lot of stuff is being priced ridiculously high of the piece. An example that i would give would be the Jedi Mind Trick monti. Average retail price i see a lot is $39 but come on, really! It grows like a weed! it should be at $15 by now. (kudos to WWC though for their monti pack yesterday, that was an awesome deal)

I know im going to hear that you get what you pay for but whats the limit and how do we justify 6k for a coral! Especially one thats doing the rounds and easy to aquaculture. I said it in another thread, its knuckleheads with more money than sense that are pricing us average Joe's out of this hobby and dictating the market.

It would be interesting to see some vendors chime in to hear their thoughts. I understand they have to put a price on the time and money they put in to getting a new release ready for the aquarium trade and i can get the few hundred dollar price tags they will put on new releases. I just wont to know how we're seeing stupid money price tags off $1000s on other stuff.

I would like to say though R2R does have some awesome honest vendors that have excellent pricing and its these vendors that i acquire my coral from, but unfortunately there are other vendors and individuals out there that i just in it for the money and steering pricing in the direction nobody want to go.

 

[Tahoe61]

It's a buyer beware world out there, always has been, always will be. We as hobbyist set the price, it's the nature of the game.

Hobbyist were saying the same thing about designer clowns when they hit the market. Simple skimmers used to be extremely expensive when they hit the market.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

Meh. I would be frustrated if ALL coral were super expensive, but the truth is that you can still buy frags for $5 of plenty of types of coral, so the hobby is still accessible to people who aren't made of money. If someone is willing to pay $6k for a coral, can you really blame the guys who sells it to him?

 

[Joshky]

Supply and demand, I can't put it any other way. It may not be fair, it may seem like price gouging, but if people weren't paying the prices they wouldn't be that high. You don't have to own these corals to have a nice reef, there are plenty of examples out there.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I also should say that I think it's really hard to generalize about coral prices simply because of the wide range of prices. If you ask me do I think that a $6k bounce shroom was priced ridiculously high, I'll say "yes" (which is obviously a different opinion than the guy who paid it), but if you ask me do I think that $5-$15 for a green slimer frag is priced fairly, I'll also say "yes." Ultimately, the answer to your poll will depend on how we generalize coral prices. I do think most coral is accessibly priced. The hyped corals that are the rage are obviously going to be high priced...after all, it's simple economics...you gotta want to buy more than I want to sell. Prices are dictated by a combination of supply and demand & willingness to sell vs. willingness to pay (meaning that even if you have 100 of something, I still have to pay you enough that you're willing to part with 1 instead of hoarding. LOL).

 

[787will]

I believe generally corals are prices too high, in some instances ridiculously high. Most of the time i get around this by going directly to the vendors to work out package deals. Or i wait for sales/live sales but even then we have to be careful because i still see prices in a 'sale' that are above the norm....

 

[dbl]

Supply and demand, I can't put it any other way...

Very true Josh, and to stress your point, let’s define what Fair Market Value is. FMV is the price a willing and able buyer will pay to a willing and able seller. That is true for any product. Apparently the FMV of the now infamous bubble coral is $6k, if the story is even valid.

Edit: mdbannister was saying the same thing, but he obviously types faster!!!

 

[Harry_Y]

This hobby is like any other hobby (A luxury), as long as
people are willing to pay the price they will sell for that price.

If someone is willing to pay $500 for a common then why sell it for $5

Business is business, I don't work for free I don't expect them to either.

 

[Pete polyp]

Beautiful corals come at all prices. Patience is a must in this hobby as we all know. If you're patient and selective it can be affordable. If you want the latest named hotness then you will have to drop the coin on it.

 

[acolotto]

funny how your 4 options are ridiculously high, very high, high, and fair. Your poll is very biased to begin with to push the answer to your opinion. Do i think coral prices are to high no not at all. I love my named sticks and easily spend $250+ on 1/2 frags pretty commonly and im not made of money. Every tank is different, every person has a different price they think is high some people wouldnt pay $50 for a frag but to me those are brown sps chunks i buy to throw in the frag tank and see what they turn into and some people have a complete reef where every coral was started with a under $50 frag. Beauty about this hobby is there is something for everybody no matter what their price range may be.

 

[steve&mari]

I see it as it's up to us as buyers to be responsible for what we spend on corals ect. As said it's all about supply and demand if people are going to pay 1k or more it's going to remain high until people stop buying it for unrealistic prices. But most of us are guilty of overpaying for some corals we want now versus waiting for market to drop in price. To some the hobby is collection of rarer and higher end corals others a nice healthy budget friendly reef. It's definitely possible to have a great reef without 1k and up priced corals in it.

 

[Harry_Y]

Beautiful corals come at all prices. Patience is a must in this hobby as we all know. If you're patient and selective it can be affordable. If you want the latest named hotness then you will have to drop the coin on it.

Indeed, I typically check out my LFS at least once a week (with cash in hand)

If I'm on the fence I'll wait and sometimes the price drops to where I'm willing to pay and I get it.
Other times I see a new coral that really catches my eye and know I better snag it before it's gone.

 

[787will]

We talk about FMV but does that really come into play these days on any product? just because one person is willing to part the cash doesnt mean that is the value of a product. Take a home for example, just because the buyer and seller agree on a price does not mean that is the value of the property.

 

[D maul]

Beautiful corals come at all prices. Patience is a must in this hobby as we all know. If you're patient and selective it can be affordable. If you want the latest named hotness then you will have to drop the coin on it.

I think Pete said it well, wait for the price drop it will. I wanted the JF jacko when it was the thing to have but not for 300. I waited for somebody local to sell me a frag for 75.

 

[Tahoe61]

Take a home for example, just because the buyer and seller agree on a price does not mean that is the value of the property.

And that is exactly why it's a buyer beware world. We take personal responsibility for those decisions we make.

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

We talk about FMV but does that really come into play these days on any product? just because one person is willing to part the cash doesnt mean that is the value of a product. Take a home for example, just because the buyer and seller agree on a price does not mean that is the value of the property.

I'm afraid you're going to need to explain further because that actually IS pretty much the definition of FMV. A quick search for FMV definition reveals: Fair market value (FMV) is an estimate of the market value of a property, based on what a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured buyer would probably pay to a knowledgeable, willing, and unpressured seller in the market. (We should qualify that "unpressured" means the seller and buyer are not under duress to make the transaction.)

I think you mean that property may be sold for more (or less) than the averaged value of houses in a neighborhood, and that is certainly true. However, it doesn't mean that the sale itself was unfair. Instead, there is usually a reason this takes place--the property is extraordinary in some way (thereby creating a higher demand for the specific property), the supply of property in the area is now significantly less than it was before, or there has been some other significant change in the region as a whole causing the entire market to shift as something has made the whole market more (or less) desirable. In any case, FMV in neighborhoods is determined by what houses are currently selling for (and the out-of-the-ordinary sale will now affect FMV of the other houses in the neighborhood).

When we apply this principle to corals, the FMV is determined by looking at the sales of other corals, and this is typically how pricing of corals works. If my memory serves me correctly, the $6k bounce was extraordinary (...if my memory serves me, it was huge...), so it still falls within this principle. Now, the sale of that bounce is affecting the FMV of other bounce mushrooms (still following the principle). ...at least one way is that the sale of a $6k bounce shroom has made bounce shrooms (and probably other mushroom corals) more desirable to collectors. Eventually, the price will fall due to supply/demand principles and a lack of buyers willing to pay those prices will drive the prices down which will bring the FMV down. So, unless I'm missing something somewhere, the economic principles in play with regard to properties also apply to corals.

Now, it is true that in the housing market (and coral market) there are some buyers who are NOT knowledgeable and therefore pay more than they need to in order to purchase a property (or coral), but that generally does not generally affect FMV as the price will not remain at the "sucker price" since other buyers who are knowledgeable will not pay that same price. (For example, someone might be able to "dupe" an uninformed hobbyist into paying $300 for a green slimer frag, but that is unlikely to impact the price of green slimer frags in the market.)

 

[Pete polyp]

I think Pete said it well, wait for the price drop it will. I wanted the JF jacko when it was the thing to have but not for 300. I waited for somebody local to sell me a frag for 75.

I wanted that one too. I waited it out and actually got one as a freebie yesterday [emoji1]

 

[ngvu1]

And we have frags for $10-$15 here in Socali . Not very big frags but they tend to live and grow well!
these corals will be cheap like the tyree toad stool if you wait.

I think Pete said it well, wait for the price drop it will. I wanted the JF jacko when it was the thing to have but not for 300. I waited for somebody local to sell me a frag for 75.

 

[dbl]

We talk about FMV but does that really come into play these days on any product? just because one person is willing to part the cash doesnt mean that is the value of a product. Take a home for example, just because the buyer and seller agree on a price does not mean that is the value of the property.

It's my opinion it comes in to play in nearly all products, but then again I'm the one that mentioned FMV. As to real estate, the hypothetical sale you mention absolutely dictates market value. Just ask your realtor or property appraiser. Or if your neighbor sells their similar home for a big number, my guess is you'd be pretty happy. Admittedly I'm over simplifying here, but trying to make a point.

Again, and simply my opinion, and as others have said, some people are willing to pay what we might consider ridiculous prices for corals, but it's their decision, but they are determining a value for that coral, at least until the next person buys the same coral.

 

[Wiz]

easily spend $250+ on 1/2 frags pretty commonly and im not made of money

I would argue that last part. Lol ;-)

But honestly The simple fact is people charge what they can And people pay what they will. I agree that a beautiful reef is easily had And cheap enough if you buy the right stuff. I would also agree that if you can afford some of these prices like $6,000 for a mushroom you have entirely too much money. Lol