Corals looking bad and not growing

[ZoWhat]

No. You definitely want some nitrate to go with your phos.

IME... if you plan to just keep zoas and LPS, you don't strip the water down to 0ppm no3.

You need no3 at around 5-10ppm. I wouldnt start worrying about no3 until it went above 25ppm

You also want po4 around 0.1-0.5ppm. I'm not concerned until it gets to 2ppm

You aim for those #s.... you'll see a big turnaround

 

[elorablue]

Hey you started I’m finishing it

Good. You win.

 

[attiland]

Good. You win.

There are things they don’t seems to teach in school.

 

[anthonygf]

This is simply incorrect.

You know what I am seeing? My animals love the higher nitrate, are fluffed up better, growing faster. If I get a little green algae that is good too.

 

[anthonygf]

OP your getting a lot of bad advise. Your water was fine coral loves clean water. What I see was the same problem I had and just fixed. My light intensity was way to high. Leds are strong and having intensity to high won't bleach corals as much as having what happened to you. My advise is to turn intensity way down. I'm at 10% blue and 1% white and now my growth and color all came back. I never feed, that's optional. But clean water the most important. This slightly dirty water a new fad I don't buy into. All my spawning events happened in the best water possible. Good luck

The only bad advice I have seen is you don't want nitrates. That is absolute rubbish. Some reefs run good at zero and some don't, you just need to know how to do it. I have seen better results with a higher No3 and po4 than at the low end.

 

[Rmckoy]

The only bad advice I have seen is you don't want nitrates. That is absolute rubbish. Some reefs run good at zero and some don't, you just need to know how to do it. I have seen better results with a higher No3 and po4 than at the low end.

Agree 100%

 

[anthonygf]

Thank you Rmckoy!

 

[outhouse]

"Getting nitrates as low as possible" was all the craze a few years back for algae control.

Not really true. It always has. Not just a few years back, no3 management has been a problem since people started raising coral in aquariums. People have had many ways to try and combat the issue. Fact is we are trying to mimic the natural reef where nitrates are so low they are not detectable.

Edit: now the pendulum seem to have swung back to "some excess nitrate" is OK,

This is all recent, people forget if you feed fish, you have nitrates period. only in the last few years is this so called "advise" being thrown around.

I promise you I have never seen coral like OP's from doing to many water changes. This is not OP's problem. Having clean water has never effected the health of a tank, can trace amounts of nitrates help growth sure, but it does not stunt growth, nor does it make your corals look sick like OPs.

Since LED lighting is semi new, there is not enough information out there about growth under these lights. And literal morons have sucked up all the bait for the companies selling them and people think they need to upgrade and try and hit certain par numbers. its a joke at how many think they need a par meter to grow coral. IF YOU want to know about the most recent screw up, its over intensity of LEDS that are far to bright for most aquariums they are used on. after 5 hours most corals have reached their maximum amount of light they can use, and the main reason today for lack of growth is due to intensity being set to high. Look at how many threads exist about Kessils and no growth. I grow LPS professionally and this bit me. One last time for those having similar issues like OP turn your lights down. LIKE OP I tried for years at 50% intensity and when growth stopped I tried turning it up to turn up growth. Wrong move. in a 30" 210G display tank which I have outgrown multiple times with coral and had to harvest, my growth and tank health declined until I lowered lights to 10% B and 1 % W.

 

[outhouse]

I know the corals I keep like nutrients so I feed heavy and spot feed phytoplankton at least once a week, but I think my skimmer might be over skimming. I also upgraded my lights to the AI prime 3 months ago and I’ve been fairly lost on how to use them

So OP admits introducing plenty of nitrates despite his claim of 0, we know this is danged near impossible, nor would 0 be the problem with that much food.

I have not fed corals ever while professionally growing and selling them. Its not needed unless your getting into SPS

OP admits to having issues with lighting, try focusing your answers to problems where the actual problem lies.

 

[elorablue]

Not really true. It always has. Not just a few years back, no3 management has been a problem since people started raising coral in aquariums. People have had many ways to try and combat the issue. Fact is we are trying to mimic the natural reef where nitrates are so low they are not detectable.

This is all recent, people forget if you feed fish, you have nitrates period. only in the last few years is this so called "advise" being thrown around.

I promise you I have never seen coral like OP's from doing to many water changes. This is not OP's problem. Having clean water has never effected the health of a tank, can trace amounts of nitrates help growth sure, but it does not stunt growth, nor does it make your corals look sick like OPs.

Since LED lighting is semi new, there is not enough information out there about growth under these lights. And literal morons have sucked up all the bait for the companies selling them and people think they need to upgrade and try and hit certain par numbers. its a joke at how many think they need a par meter to grow coral. IF YOU want to know about the most recent screw up, its over intensity of LEDS that are far to bright for most aquariums they are used on. after 5 hours most corals have reached their maximum amount of light they can use, and the main reason today for lack of growth is due to intensity being set to high. Look at how many threads exist about Kessils and no growth. I grow LPS professionally and this bit me. One last time for those having similar issues like OP turn your lights down. LIKE OP I tried for years at 50% intensity and when growth stopped I tried turning it up to turn up growth. Wrong move. in a 30" 210G display tank which I have outgrown multiple times with coral and had to harvest, my growth and tank health declined until I lowered lights to 10% B and 1 % W.

That’s extremely interesting about the lighting. When you say LPS do you mean all types? From Favia to hammers?
10% and 1% seems incredibly low, barely above ambient. LEDs?
I know Mitchell at NDA keeps his lps tanks at a lower temperature, around 24 degrees, and swears by that method but his lighting is more in the ‘normal’ range.

 

[Impala67]

Not really true. It always has. Not just a few years back, no3 management has been a problem since people started raising coral in aquariums. People have had many ways to try and combat the issue. Fact is we are trying to mimic the natural reef where nitrates are so low they are not detectable.

This is all recent, people forget if you feed fish, you have nitrates period. only in the last few years is this so called "advise" being thrown around.

I promise you I have never seen coral like OP's from doing to many water changes. This is not OP's problem. Having clean water has never effected the health of a tank, can trace amounts of nitrates help growth sure, but it does not stunt growth, nor does it make your corals look sick like OPs.

Since LED lighting is semi new, there is not enough information out there about growth under these lights. And literal morons have sucked up all the bait for the companies selling them and people think they need to upgrade and try and hit certain par numbers. its a joke at how many think they need a par meter to grow coral. IF YOU want to know about the most recent screw up, its over intensity of LEDS that are far to bright for most aquariums they are used on. after 5 hours most corals have reached their maximum amount of light they can use, and the main reason today for lack of growth is due to intensity being set to high. Look at how many threads exist about Kessils and no growth. I grow LPS professionally and this bit me. One last time for those having similar issues like OP turn your lights down. LIKE OP I tried for years at 50% intensity and when growth stopped I tried turning it up to turn up growth. Wrong move. in a 30" 210G display tank which I have outgrown multiple times with coral and had to harvest, my growth and tank health declined until I lowered lights to 10% B and 1 % W.

Finally someone I can agree with lol

 

[LiveFreeAndReef]

I agree with you on the phos but the nitrate going to have to disagree with you all I know is nitrate brings algae and algae brings problems!!

Nitrate brings algae, 0 nitrates brings dinos. Algae is a good thing (in moderation)

 

[anthonygf]

Nitrate brings algae, 0 nitrates brings dinos. Algae is a good thing (in moderation)

You are correct about both, but with zero nitrates and no good algae can promote bad algae to take over. I have been reefing for only 7 years, fresh for 40, have run my system with zero No3 and trace po4 and had cyano, dinos etc., low nitrates at 5 and Po4 .03 lots of GHA algae and cyano, now that I have removed all traces of GHA and most of cyano my No3 shot up to 25ppm and Po4 at 0.131 for 2 months now and notice improved health of corals-maybe due to lack of cyano, no algae yet, a trace of cyano if I run my whites too high. I consider myself still learning whats best for my reef. You have to do what is best for your reef, if you can do ULN then good for you but I think ULN system is harder to maintain for new reefers.

 

[LiveFreeAndReef]

You are correct about both, but with zero nitrates and no good algae can promote bad algae to take over. I have been reefing for only 7 years, fresh for 40, have run my system with zero No3 and trace po4 and had cyano, dinos etc., low nitrates at 5 and Po4 .03 lots of GHA algae and cyano, now that I have removed all traces of GHA and most of cyano my No3 shot up to 25ppm and Po4 at 0.131 for 2 months now and notice improved health of corals-maybe due to lack of cyano, no algae yet, a trace of cyano if I run my whites too high. I consider myself still learning whats best for my reef. You have to do what is best for your reef, if you can do ULN then good for you but I think ULN system is harder to maintain for new reefers.

I was battling dinos for a while in a smaller (15 gallon) tank, every time I tested my water my nitrates were at 0. I fed a TON of food and still couldn't get past 0. A couple weeks ago I removed my skimmer and started dosing nitrogen and my tank has been dino free since. (knock on wood) Every tank is different, but I would rather have algae over dinos 110% of the time.

 

[RMS18]

You do not want your nitrate it’s great that it’s at zero phos needs to be a little higher though but you do not need nitrate nor do you want it!!!!

This is not good advice at all. All systems need no3, especially with LPS. I run s a SPS tank with 15ppm of no3 with no algae, i run a LPS tank at 5ppm no3 with no algae. This member has other issues going on to state this.

To the OP, Alk is high for a ULN system. If you choose to keep your alk this high, i'd highly recommend you increase po4 to .04-.1 and no3 to 5-10ppm. If you choose to bring your alk down to 8-9 dkh range you can run a lower nutrient system but i'd recommend you get off the 0's for no3 and po4. Shutting down your skimmer is a ok idea, but dosing some liquid no3 and po4 is a better idea. You can place the skimmer on a timer for example, i run my skimmer for 4 hours a day.

There is some really bad advice in this thread and some solid advice. To many changes at once is not good, i'd work on the alk, no3 and po4 before anything else.

 

[anthonygf]

This is not good advice at all. All systems need no3, especially with LPS. I run s a SPS tank with 15ppm of no3 with no algae, i run a LPS tank at 5ppm no3 with no algae. This member has other issues going on to state this.

To the OP, Alk is high for a ULN system. If you choose to keep your alk this high, i'd highly recommend you increase po4 to .04-.1 and no3 to 5-10ppm. If you choose to bring your alk down to 8-9 dkh range you can run a lower nutrient system but i'd recommend you get off the 0's for no3 and po4. Shutting down your skimmer is a ok idea, but dosing some liquid no3 and po4 is a better idea. You can place the skimmer on a timer for example, i run my skimmer for 4 hours a day.

There is some really bad advice in this thread and some solid advice. To many changes at once is not good, i'd work on the alk, no3 and po4 before anything else.

You see, I even forgot about the fact that high alk is bad for ULN systems. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[outhouse]

That’s extremely interesting about the lighting. When you say LPS do you mean all types? From Favia to hammers?
10% and 1% seems incredibly low, barely above ambient. LEDs?
I know Mitchell at NDA keeps his lps tanks at a lower temperature, around 24 degrees, and swears by that method but his lighting is more in the ‘normal’ range.

I have lobo branching hammer and frogspawn and a scolie and rbtas. So its not barely above ambient. Most people underestimate how much light 3W leds actually put out.

I am embarrassed because it took me so long to figure this out, now many report 10% to 20% with B out of our lights and and the 1% white gives my tank a look like when I ran MH 175SE 20K bulbs for over 25 years before switching to leds. All I can say is my frogspawn which at one time was about 500 heads is now down to 10 or so. I sold most and lost 30 in my display due to this lighting fiasco, I started with 3 heads close to 30 years ago. Branching hammer in Sacramento probably came from my tank which I started with 7 heads and at one time had about 2000. Down to a few hundred right now at best. Last 5 years have been a waste.

So now with lowering my lights growth is flying again and everything is back on track.

 

[outhouse]

0 nitrates brings dinos

Not really true. It depends on how mature your tank is and your individual chemistry. In 30 years I have had dinos once from not changing water for a few years. Never have I had it from clean water which 2/3 of the time my water shows 0. Ive only seen dinos effect new tanks, meaning under 5 years old, and never from clean water. Not saying it does not happen, im sure its happened to you, and your not making it up. So yes it can but its generally not true in established systems.

 

[SifuMemphis]

I’ve been trying to get ahold of a par meter but no lfs in my city will let me rent one. I’m still trying to get ahold of one on local forums. I always look at my tank with a flashlight when the lights go off, and I dipped all my corals before putting them in. I’ll re dip if things don’t turn around soon. Thanks for the help!

Rent one via BRS.

 

[LiveFreeAndReef]

Not really true. It depends on how mature your tank is and your individual chemistry. In 30 years I have had dinos once from not changing water for a few years. Never have I had it from clean water which 2/3 of the time my water shows 0. Ive only seen dinos effect new tanks, meaning under 5 years old, and never from clean water. Not saying it does not happen, im sure its happened to you, and your not making it up. So yes it can but its generally not true in established systems.

True, every tank is different! Just from personal experience, 0 nitrates wasn't working out lol I dose nitrogen daily to keep my nitrates between 5-10, corals seem happier since I started too. I wonder how many tanks actually make it to the 5 year mark, I bet the majority of people give up before that point!