Could this be a bacterial infection?

[scubaboy]

Good Afternoon,

I have a Yellow Tang that has started scratching or "flashing" a couple of weeks ago. She is out and about, but does spend time at each end of my tank at one of the two shrimp cleaner stations. I have been watching her closely for any formation of spots but have not seen any as of yet.

Today I did notice she seams to have a red rash on her tail end. It is on both sides. Could this be a bacterial infection?

If so, can I treat her in the DT and what should I use, Metro?

I do not have any corals as of yet, but I have 14 other fish and a pretty extensive CUC with various snails and shrimp.

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Possible bacterial or inflammation from scratching
Is it eating?
How is the breathing rate?fast?
Is it twitching?
What are you feeding it?

 

[scubaboy]

Possible bacterial or inflammation from scratching
Is it eating?
How is the breathing rate?fast?
Is it twitching?
What are you feeding it?

Thank you for your quick reply.

Eating, not as much as she used to or I would like. It has definitely slowed down enough that I have been concerned.

Breathing is normal

No twitching, she will scrape on my rocks and sometimes on the sand bottom. She doe what i understand as "flash" (real quick scrape)

I feed twice a day frozen Mysis shrimp, Brine shrimp, a pinch of flakes and some real small pellet food and 1/4 sheet nori every day or two.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you for your quick reply.

Eating, not as much as she used to or I would like. It has definitely slowed down enough that I have been concerned.

Breathing is normal

No twitching, she will scrape on my rocks and sometimes on the sand bottom. She doe what i understand as "flash" (real quick scrape)

I feed twice a day frozen Mysis shrimp, Brine shrimp, a pinch of flakes and some real small pellet food and 1/4 sheet nori every day or two.

Increase diet from what I listed. Flashing is the twitching I was asking of. Many signs of irritation that suggest beginning of velvet or my suspect- flukes
A freshwater dip will determine flukes as when the fish has had a 4/5 minute bath, you can return it to the display tank. Look on bottom of container you used for dip and see if you can notice what looks like sesame seeds or fish scales.
If so, those are flukes. Assure FW is sane temp as display tank

 

[scubaboy]

Thank you. I may have missed the diet comment though, would you mind please repeating what you listed?

Getting her out of the DT is going to be quite the challenge. Will I need to treat the remaining fish in the tank also? None of them are showing any signs what so ever.

 

[adittam]

Thank you. I may have missed the diet comment though, would you mind please repeating what you listed?

Getting her out of the DT is going to be quite the challenge. Will I need to treat the remaining fish in the tank also? None of them are showing any signs what so ever.

You’ll definitely have to treat all of the fish in the display. If a 5 minute freshwater dip (make sure the fresh water is RO/DI, not tap, and is the same temp as the display, and it wouldn’t hurt to use an air stone to oxygenate it for 30 minutes beforehand also) shows flukes, you could do 3 courses of prazipro (remove all chemical filtration such as carbon, then treat back to back to back, one week between each treatment) in the display tank without harming the inverts. This will treat for flukes, but NOT for other parasites such as velvet, ich, etc. There are no effective display tank safe treatments for those diseases even if you don’t have corals yet. Copper is the only effective treatment for those diseases, and it will take a LONG time to remove from the rocks and substrate in your display.

 

[scubaboy]

Could it be bacterial? The red patches on hey back section are equal on both sides.
Can I use Prazi Pro for potential flukes and Metro at the same time for potential bacterial?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Good Afternoon,

I have a Yellow Tang that has started scratching or "flashing" a couple of weeks ago. She is out and about, but does spend time at each end of my tank at one of the two shrimp cleaner stations. I have been watching her closely for any formation of spots but have not seen any as of yet.

Today I did notice she seams to have a red rash on her tail end. It is on both sides. Could this be a bacterial infection?

If so, can I treat her in the DT and what should I use, Metro?

I do not have any corals as of yet, but I have 14 other fish and a pretty extensive CUC with various snails and shrimp.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Yellow tangs commonly show red skin due to a variety of irritations. Since it is scratching and posturing for the cleaner shrimp, the first diagnosis would be flukes. Prazipro can be used with invertebrates as long as you provide good aeration. I would dose twice, 10 days apart.
Jay

 

[scubaboy]

Thank you Jay for responding!

I am on day 5 of the first round and have removed my skimmer cup and increased the air flow as you have recommended in other threads.

You say I need to wait 10 days prior to the second round? I had been told to do a 25% WC and go right into the second round.

Do I need to do the WC if I wait 10 days in between?

 

[vetteguy53081]

You’ll definitely have to treat all of the fish in the display. If a 5 minute freshwater dip (make sure the fresh water is RO/DI, not tap, and is the same temp as the display, and it wouldn’t hurt to use an air stone to oxygenate it for 30 minutes beforehand also) shows flukes, you could do 3 courses of prazipro (remove all chemical filtration such as carbon, then treat back to back to back, one week between each treatment) in the display tank without harming the inverts. This will treat for flukes, but NOT for other parasites such as velvet, ich, etc. There are no effective display tank safe treatments for those diseases even if you don’t have corals yet. Copper is the only effective treatment for those diseases, and it will take a LONG time to remove from the rocks and substrate in your display.

TAP IS acceptable for freshwater dip and does not have to be oxygenated for 4-5 minute use.
PraziPro can be run with carbon and that is IF it is flukes. In many cases, flukes will not need multiple treatments (and can be treated with hyposalinity treatment).
90 minute baths with ruby rally pro will treat flukes and parasites on fish and can be achieved also in display as it is reef safe.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thank you. I may have missed the diet comment though, would you mind please repeating what you listed?

Getting her out of the DT is going to be quite the challenge. Will I need to treat the remaining fish in the tank also? None of them are showing any signs what so ever.

Diet:

Spirulina brine shrimp
Nori seaweed basted with garlic extract
LRS Herbivore diet
Formula 2 flake and frozen
Hikari Marine cuisine
Hikari Mega marine algae
Mysis shrimp
small plankton

Add selcon vitamins to the food 2-3X per week and garlic extract on alternating days for immunity system health and overall stamina

 

[scubaboy]

Thank you vetteguy53081 for responding!

I already feed some of these twice a day and will make the additions your recommending. I am assuming these are a mixed rotation of foods.

I already soak in Selcon at every feeding, I have done that for awhile and also currently dose phytoplankton daily. I will add the garlic and rotate it with the Selcon.

She gets a mix of Nori, 1/4 sheet every day, never thought of basting it, great idea.

Thank you!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you Jay for responding!

I am on day 5 of the first round and have removed my skimmer cup and increased the air flow as you have recommended in other threads.

You say I need to wait 10 days prior to the second round? I had been told to do a 25% WC and go right into the second round.

Do I need to do the WC if I wait 10 days in between?

That isn't correct - you don't want to redose prazi back to back like that. Here is the reason" some flukes are egg layers. Prazi has no affect on the eggs. If you redose right away, there can be unhatched eggs that then hatch and reinfect the fish. The ten day spacing helps kill off the newly hatched flukes, but before they have time to lay their own eggs. However, the timing on this isn't 100%, so there is always a risk that some flukes will get through. I will dose 3x, 10 days apart in stubborn cases.

Jay

 

[scubaboy]

That isn't correct - you don't want to redose prazi back to back like that. Here is the reason" some flukes are egg layers. Prazi has no affect on the eggs. If you redose right away, there can be unhatched eggs that then hatch and reinfect the fish. The ten day spacing helps kill off the newly hatched flukes, but before they have time to lay their own eggs. However, the timing on this isn't 100%, so there is always a risk that some flukes will get through. I will dose 3x, 10 days apart in stubborn cases.

Jay

Thank you for the explanation.

Do I do a 5 or 7 day cycle with the Prazi and do I do a WC in between dosing cycles and if so how much, 25%?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thank you for the explanation.

Do I do a 5 or 7 day cycle with the Prazi and do I do a WC in between dosing cycles and if so how much, 25%?

I prefer a 7 or 10 periods between doses. A 25% water change prior to the second dose is a good idea, but prazi is broken down by bacteria pretty quickly.
Jay

 

[scubaboy]

Okay, thank you.
So for simplicity, I am going to do a 7 on and 7 off cycles with a 25% WC right before each additional medicated cycle and I think you said do a minimum of 3

I will also increase there feedings and supplements as mentioned in an earlier post.

thank you so much everyone that responded!!!!!

I will let you know how things went!

 

[adittam]

TAP IS acceptable for freshwater dip and does not have to be oxygenated for 4-5 minute use.
PraziPro can be run with carbon and that is IF it is flukes. In many cases, flukes will not need multiple treatments (and can be treated with hyposalinity treatment).
90 minute baths with ruby rally pro will treat flukes and parasites on fish and can be achieved also in display as it is reef safe.

I’m not an expert, but I'm not making up the recommendations I listed.

Freshwater Dip

Freshwater Dip What It Treats – Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases: 1) Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum) 2) Brooklynella hostilis 3) Uronema marinum 4) Flukes (Monogeneans) 5) Black Ich (Turbellarians) Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes (see video...

www.reef2reef.com

“Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip.”

PraziPro Parasite Treatment

Protect your fish from parasites like flukes, tapeworms, flatworms, and turbellarians in your reef tank. If you see symptoms of infection, we recommend removing all fish to a quarantine system for treatment. This is a very gentle and safe treatment, but can negatively affect desirable...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

“Do not stop filtration, but remove activated carbon and stop foam-fractionation (protein skimming) and UV sterilization.”

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’m not an expert, but I'm not making up the recommendations I listed.

Freshwater Dip

Freshwater Dip What It Treats – Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases: 1) Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum) 2) Brooklynella hostilis 3) Uronema marinum 4) Flukes (Monogeneans) 5) Black Ich (Turbellarians) Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes (see video...

www.reef2reef.com

“Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip.”

PraziPro Parasite Treatment

Protect your fish from parasites like flukes, tapeworms, flatworms, and turbellarians in your reef tank. If you see symptoms of infection, we recommend removing all fish to a quarantine system for treatment. This is a very gentle and safe treatment, but can negatively affect desirable...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

“Do not stop filtration, but remove activated carbon and stop foam-fractionation (protein skimming) and UV sterilization.”

Some of the rules have changed
Did you notice the posting was from 2016?
Be careful what you read. I’ve been doing this 3.5 decades and @Jay Hemdal as long. Much has changed and continues to. Even Fowler period has been reduced as well as cycling times

 

[adittam]

Some of the rules have changed
Did you notice the posting was from 2016?
Be careful what you read. I’ve been doing this 3.5 decades and @Jay Hemdal as long. Much has changed and continues to. Even Fowler period has been reduced as well as cycling times

Yes, I did, and I understand that @vetteguy53081, but I was “be(ing) careful what I read.” Humblefish isn’t exactly a slouch, and I don’t think there have been any scientific advances in tap water or the biology of saltwater fish’s gills that would make the recommendations to preoxygenate the water or use RODI water obsolete.

Pretty much everyone here will agree that freshwater dips are stressful for fish; many (including @Jay Hemdal) going so far as to say that they will finish off fish that already aren’t doing well. Why introduce more stress to that scenario by using tap water and not pre-oxygenating? Just because you CAN do something a quicker way doesn’t mean it’s the best practice.

As far as the removing carbon recommendation, that’s directly from the Prazipro manufacturer.

If you have reasons that I should change my recommendations, please share. I’m all for learning and adapting from my mistakes.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yes, I did, and I understand that @vetteguy53081, but I was “be(ing) careful what I read.” Humblefish isn’t exactly a slouch, and I don’t think there have been any scientific advances in tap water or the biology of saltwater fish’s gills that would make the recommendations to preoxygenate the water or use RODI water obsolete.

Pretty much everyone here will agree that freshwater dips are stressful for fish; many (including @Jay Hemdal) going so far as to say that they will finish off fish that already aren’t doing well. Why introduce more stress to that scenario by using tap water and not pre-oxygenating? Just because you CAN do something a quicker way doesn’t mean it’s the best practice.

As far as the removing carbon recommendation, that’s directly from the Prazipro manufacturer.

If you have reasons that I should change my recommendations, please share. I’m all for learning and adapting from my mistakes.

Please don't misunderstand - when a fish dies due to a properly done FW dip, that means it was too far gone to have survived for long without a dip - OR the fish had so many parasites, that when the dip knocked them off, the fish bleeds out and dies.

In terms of aeration during and before a dip: I do not use RODI for dips - poor oxygenation and no pH control. I use dechlorinated tap water since I can draw it from the tap at the correct temperature, and then use it right away. In my region, it also has a pH above 8. People who have soft, low pH tap water may need to consider another source.

Aerating during a dip? Absolutely! It keeps the fish up and moving, so you can better judge its behavior. It also helps dislodge flukes during the dip.

Jay