Could this be why I've been losing SPS?

[BigJohnny]

Well, yeah. Neglect will always cause issues. Trick is tracking down the issue not identifying one.

This is the main one, alkalinity. No trick. You need stable params, especially alkalinity. You cant do that without frequent testing and dosing and/or water changes.

 

[Crustaceon]

Personally, I think the necessity for water changes is greatly over exaggerated. Take for example my tank. I haven’t done a water change in over 8 months yet my acros are perfectly happy. The reason why I don’t do them is because honestly, in my system there is no reason to do them. My nitrates and phosphates won’t go above 5ppm and .03ppm unless I grossly overfeed the tank. I’m also running a calcium reactor along with a kalk powder that’s loaded with pretty much all of the trace elements I’ll ever need. A lot of my success is in exporting excessive nutrients through other means aside from water changes, such as my skimmer, algae scrubber and just blasting out my sand from time to time and changing out the filter sock a few hours later. These methods do not cause rapid shifts in water parameters like water changes often do. As I see it, his alkalinity level and stability are probably to blame. Both of which would be addressed through less or better yet, simply much smaller, yet more frequent water changes in conjunction with proper feeding to keep the nutrient levels low. Sps are far less tolerant of water parameter changes than excessive nitrates or phosphates.

My most basic advice in this case would be to get the nitrate test done on friday and if it’s over 20ppm, do a 1/2 gallon daily water change for a while and monitor the nitrate level. Odds are, your nitrate levels will drop with even such a small amount removed, especially if that volume is coming through a gravel vac. This will also reduce the alkalinity to a more conducive level if you use a salt mix that naturally sits at a lower level, or go with natural sea water. Using salt that mixes at such a high alk and keeping overall alk at a reasonable level is a pain when used in tanks with low to non-existent alk demand. I had the exact same problem with my 36 gallon tank using IO reef crystals.

 

[kevin_e]

This is the main one, alkalinity. No trick. You need stable params, especially alkalinity. You cant do that without frequent testing and dosing and/or water changes.

Definitely could be a major component of the issues. I'm going to start tracking it for sure.

 

[kevin_e]

Personally, I think the necessity for water changes is greatly over exaggerated. Take for example my tank. I haven’t done a water change in over 8 months yet my acros are perfectly happy. The reason why I don’t do them is because honestly, in my system there is no reason to do them. My nitrates and phosphates won’t go above 5ppm and .03ppm unless I grossly overfeed the tank. I’m also running a calcium reactor along with a kalk powder that’s loaded with pretty much all of the trace elements I’ll ever need. A lot of my success is in exporting excessive nutrients through other means aside from water changes, such as my skimmer, algae scrubber and just blasting out my sand from time to time and changing out the filter sock a few hours later. These methods do not cause rapid shifts in water parameters like water changes often do. As I see it, his alkalinity level and stability are probably to blame. Both of which would be addressed through less or better yet, simply much smaller, yet more frequent water changes in conjunction with proper feeding to keep the nutrient levels low. Sps are far less tolerant of water parameter changes than excessive nitrates or phosphates.

My most basic advice in this case would be to get the nitrate test done on friday and if it’s over 20ppm, do a 1/2 gallon daily water change for a while and monitor the nitrate level. Odds are, your nitrate levels will drop with even such a small amount removed, especially if that volume is coming through a gravel vac. This will also reduce the alkalinity to a more conducive level if you use a salt mix that naturally sits at a lower level, or go with natural sea water. Using salt that mixes at such a high alk and keeping overall alk at a reasonable level is a pain when used in tanks with low to non-existent alk demand. I had the exact same problem with my 36 gallon tank using IO reef crystals.

Good news is that the test is coming in early. I'll have Mag and nitrate numbers tonight. I have been in you same boat for most of my tanks. I've always felt that by not doing water changes, I maintain better stability, which is obviously key. I do like them in this tank because of the sediment that builds up in the sump due to not using a filter sock.

 

[ajhudson15]

I know you said you hate filter socks as do I so I will tell you what I did that is so much easier. I bought the filter cups and I just fill them about half way with filter floss. I let them get full enough to where the water rises to about the top and then I just pull the filter cup out put new floss in and stick it back in. Good to go. No cleaning or washing or anything.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

Have y’all not tried the nylon mesh socks? They are so much better than the felt socks bc they do not clog as easy and all you have to do is rinse them in the sink. I have to rinse mine about once a week, which takes a couple minutes and they last for months and months.

 

[kevin_e]

I know you said you hate filter socks as do I so I will tell you what I did that is so much easier. I bought the filter cups and I just fill them about half way with filter floss. I let them get full enough to where the water rises to about the top and then I just pull the filter cup out put new floss in and stick it back in. Good to go. No cleaning or washing or anything.

How long does the filter floss last and do you still get decent sedimentation or not? What have you found as the cheapest brand?

 

[kevin_e]

Have y’all not tried the nylon mesh socks? They are so much better than the felt socks bc they do not clog as easy and all you have to do is rinse them in the sink. I have to rinse mine about once a week, which takes a couple minutes and they last for months and months.

I have. Do you find that the larger pores capture enough. Do you still get a lot of sedimentation?

 

[ajhudson15]

How long does the filter floss last and do you still get decent sedimentation or not? What have you found as the cheapest brand?

I only have to change mine about once every two weeks. as you do it you will get a better idea of how much filter floss to put in. the more you put in the faster it fills to the top of the cup and spills over so I have mine just barely at the height of the slits where the water goes out of the cup and into the sump. I just go to petco and buy the bag of filter floss. Its like $4 and one bag will last me about 2 months. I don't have much sediment in my sump other than when the filter cup overflows and I don't catch it but its not much.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I have. Do you find that the larger pores capture enough. Do you still get a lot of sedimentation?

I get some in my sump but it doesn’t affect my corals. My no3 is 0.25-0.5 and po4 is rock solid 0.04

 

[kevin_e]

Ok, so we have some numbers here.

Mag is high.

I got 1740 ppm the 1st test and 1680 the 2nd test. I pulled up on the syringe a hair by mistake on the 2nd test, so it probably would have been close to 1740 again. I am extrapolating as the Red Sea card ends at 0.8 ml and 1600 ppm. I had to add 0.84 and 0.88 of reagent.

For nitrate, with the Nyos kit, the comparative color was 1 ppm after the 5 min timer. After 15 min it looks more like 2 or 3 ppm. I would side with the 1 ppm as the instructions say to observe after 5 min.

 

[kevin_e]

I have absolutely no idea how my mag is so high. I don't and have never dosed mag in this tank. I use regular IO salt, not even Reef Crystals.

 

[kevin_e]

Nitrates are absolutely 1 ppm. I had a second eye verify. I agreed.

 

[Crustaceon]

Bring those nitrates up a bit (you might see a change at a level as low as 3ppm) and i’ll bet your corals will very quickly improve over a few days and that mag level will start to begin to drop in conjunction with alk and calcium uptake. For now, I wouldn’t worry about water changes because at the moment you shouldn’t be exporting anything out of your tank. For the next few weeks test alk/cal/ and maybe mag daily. Note the consumption rate over three days and average it out. Manually dose those amounts. You could use a sodium bicarbonate buffer like Randy’s recipe #2 (Easy and cheap to make) or a buffer of your choice & a calcium chloride of your choice. Dose a percentage of each amount throughout the day (25% x 4) It’s going to take a while for the mag to drop too. For nutrients, I’ll bet most people who have less than 2ppm nitrates and have nice coral probably feed their tanks like crazy or dose aminos to compensate. There are probably 100 successful tanks with nitrates over 5ppm or even 10ppm for every ULNS with less than 2ppm nitrates. It’s a razor’s edge way of reefkeeping. This is why I tell people to be happy when they see color on their nitrate tests so long as it isn’t too much color. If you go too far, you’ll probably start getting nuisance algae in your display which should act as an indicator dial the nitrates back a bit. As for the cause of your mag issue, I’m guessing the salt mix is to blame. I’ve had buckets of regular IO (not reef crystals) with 1600+ mg in a fresh mix. I would mix a small amount with your RO and test that sample to be sure. If it’s the cause, get another bucket of salt of a different brand and gradually mix that IO into it so it doesn’t entirely go to waste. Maybe a few dry cups of the IO poured into the bucket of good salt and mixed around.

 

[kevin_e]

Bring those nitrates up a bit (you might see a change at a level as low as 3ppm) and i’ll bet your corals will very quickly improve over a few days and that mag level will start to begin to drop in conjunction with alk and calcium uptake. For now, I wouldn’t worry about water changes because at the moment you shouldn’t be exporting anything out of your tank. For the next few weeks test alk/cal/ and maybe mag daily. Note the consumption rate over three days and average it out. Manually dose those amounts. You could use a sodium bicarbonate buffer like Randy’s recipe #2 (Easy and cheap to make) or a buffer of your choice & a calcium chloride of your choice. Dose a percentage of each amount throughout the day (25% x 4) It’s going to take a while for the mag to drop too. For nutrients, I’ll bet most people who have less than 2ppm nitrates and have nice coral probably feed their tanks like crazy or dose aminos to compensate. There are probably 100 successful tanks with nitrates over 5ppm or even 10ppm for every ULNS with less than 2ppm nitrates. It’s a razor’s edge way of reefkeeping. This is why I tell people to be happy when they see color on their nitrate tests so long as it isn’t too much color. If you go too far, you’ll probably start getting nuisance algae in your display which should act as an indicator dial the nitrates back a bit. As for the cause of your mag issue, I’m guessing the salt mix is to blame. I’ve had buckets of regular IO (not reef crystals) with 1600+ mg in a fresh mix. I would mix a small amount with your RO and test that sample to be sure. If it’s the cause, get another bucket of salt of a different brand and gradually mix that IO into it so it doesn’t entirely go to waste. Maybe a few dry cups of the IO poured into the bucket of good salt and mixed around.

Good suggestions. I do have BRS calcium and alk supplements, so I can use that if testing indicates a need. I actually have two BRS dosing pumps mounting and waiting to go. Not plugged in or connecting to a dosing source yet. But for now, I dont think that will even be necessary. Hand dosing will be sufficient until growth dicates otherwise.

I'll begin feeding more. I use NLS pellets. I may start dosing 2 times daily and see how it responds.

I'll start logging data and see what happens over the coming weeks.

Good suggestion on the salt, also. I'll see if it is the source. It has to be. What salt would you suggest if not IO? I've always used IO.

 

[Crustaceon]

It sounds like you’re on a good path. Red sea makes a good salt and I think Tropic Marin is probably tops.

 

[kevin_e]

Starting to log testing. Went back and collected past data.

I added calcium to bring it up to 430. Thats why the big rise. The alk rise happened after a water change.

 

[kevin_e]

I tested my salt at 1.026 ppt for a baseline and here are the results:

Calcium: 400 ppm
Alk: 165 ppm
Magnesium: 1440

Those values aren't too far off from where my tank values were earlier this week: 375-390 ppm calcium, 171 ppm alk.

The only one that's far off is magnesium. Some 300 ppm lower in the salt mix than in my tank. That one is perplexing. I know it takes quite a bit of magnesium to raise your tank values from when I have dosed in other tanks.

Maybe the previous salt mix was super high? Or maybe I mixed a salt batch or two up at a higher PPT than I realized?

 

[kevin_e]

Another note, I have started feeding twice daily. I am going to monitor nitrates for several weeks and see if they begin to rise and if so, where they level off at. I want to shoot for 5-10 ppm. That seems to be a good target from what I am reading. If I cant acheive that through feeding, I'll consider a 5th fish amd cut back down to 1 feeding per day and begin tracking again. Add additional feeding as necessary.

For reference I have a 6 line wrasse, a yellow watchman goby/pistol shrimp, a Bartlett's anthias and a green chromis. A 5th fish would probably be a blenny of some sort, or a bar goby. I'd rather not venture down this path unless needed. I have more control over nitrates with feeding and adding another fish may cause some hostility issues.

 

[Crustaceon]

Another note, I have started feeding twice daily. I am going to monitor nitrates for several weeks and see if they begin to rise and if so, where they level off at. I want to shoot for 5-10 ppm. That seems to be a good target from what I am reading. If I cant acheive that through feeding, I'll consider a 5th fish amd cut back down to 1 feeding per day and begin tracking again. Add additional feeding as necessary.

For reference I have a 6 line wrasse, a yellow watchman goby/pistol shrimp, a Bartlett's anthias and a green chromis. A 5th fish would probably be a blenny of some sort, or a bar goby. I'd rather not venture down this path unless needed. I have more control over nitrates with feeding and adding another fish may cause some hostility issues.

You could always dose a little Flourish Nitrogen. It’s potent stuff and I recommend adding half of their dosing guideline.