Cyanide poisoning or something else

Jay Hemdal · Dec 4, 2020

So - myco is not a 100% diagnosis here, but it is a "could be". I would wait the standard 45 days beyond the last fish loss before trying any new (quarantined!) fish in the tank.

You can culture Myco from literally every aquarium, even from tap water and frozen fish food. There are a few species, the common one is M. marinum. Culturing it from fish internal tissues is tough; I need a lab to do it and it grows slowly, so it takes 6 weeks or so. Many times, people just do an acid fast stain and if it comes back positive, then it is probably Myco. Internally, in really bad infections, you'll see granulomas (nodules) in some organs, notably the liver.

Jay

Bleigh · Dec 4, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
So - myco is not a 100% diagnosis here, but it is a "could be". I would wait the standard 45 days beyond the last fish loss before trying any new (quarantined!) fish in the tank.

You can culture Myco from literally every aquarium, even from tap water and frozen fish food. There are a few species, the common one is M. marinum. Culturing it from fish internal tissues is tough; I need a lab to do it and it grows slowly, so it takes 6 weeks or so. Many times, people just do an acid fast stain and if it comes back positive, then it is probably Myco. Internally, in really bad infections, you'll see granulomas (nodules) in some organs, notably the liver.

Jay

I forgot you said it was in nearly all aquariums. I would expect to find it even if that's not the cause of the deaths, so it won't do me much good even if I am able to culture it. If this fish stops coming out to eat, I'll pull her and put her in the hospital tank. If she dies, I'll be able to easily get her for the necropsy and I'll look for nodules on the liver. It's been a while since I've dissected anything. Makes the scientist in me excited! lol

Would you suggest I feed metroplex/focus or stay in an observation phase?

NeonRabbit221B · Dec 4, 2020

Fish TB makes sense now. I remember going down that route once but after seeing a fish with a sunken belly linked it to bloat. Jay is the king of all fish doctors

also sorry if it is TB be aside it usually takes down the entire tank...

GlassMunky · Dec 4, 2020

NeonRabbit221B said:
Fish TB makes sense now. I remember going down that route once but after seeing a fish with a sunken belly linked it to bloat. Jay is the king of all fish doctors

also sorry if it is TB be aside it usually takes down the entire tank...

One of my LFS owners caught an infection of Myco on his forearm..... sent him to the ER, and had to get IV antibiotics as well as by mouth antibiotics for quite a while....
thankfully he’s fine now, but that stuff is scary

Bleigh · Dec 4, 2020

GlassMunky said:
One of my LFS owners caught an infection of Myco on his forearm..... sent him to the ER, and had to get IV antibiotics as well as by mouth antibiotics for quite a while....
thankfully he’s fine now, but that stuff is scary

So don’t play in the tank for a while? May be time to finally invest in full arm gloves.

Bleigh · Dec 4, 2020

NeonRabbit221B said:
Fish TB makes sense now. I remember going down that route once but after seeing a fish with a sunken belly linked it to bloat. Jay is the king of all fish doctors

also sorry if it is TB be aside it usually takes down the entire tank...

well that’s sad. Let’s hope that’s not the case. The diamond goby is probably
Pretty old too but the yellow tang is definitely a juvenile. Hopefully he won’t have any issues.

Jay Hemdal · Dec 4, 2020

Bleigh said:
I forgot you said it was in nearly all aquariums. I would expect to find it even if that's not the cause of the deaths, so it won't do me much good even if I am able to culture it. If this fish stops coming out to eat, I'll pull her and put her in the hospital tank. If she dies, I'll be able to easily get her for the necropsy and I'll look for nodules on the liver. It's been a while since I've dissected anything. Makes the scientist in me excited! lol

Would you suggest I feed metroplex/focus or stay in an observation phase?

I don't see anything here that warrants using metroplex. Focus by itself is a mild antibiotic, but it won't cure Myco. I was on a call with Dr. Yanong (a major fish farm veterinarian) a few months ago and he reiterated there is no effective treatment for Myco. For Florida fish farms, they may perform a "slash and burn"; sterilizing everything, but in aquariums, I think the better option is to just provide the best environment possible, possibly use a UV sterilizer (to help control spread?), and then just hold tight to see how it shakes out. In all my years, I've only seen one case where Myco took out a whole group of fish - some pirate perch we were working with, the mortality was 100%. I know that other people have seen 100% mortality in groups of pupfish. In all other cases I've been up against, with mixed species, Myco took out older, more susceptible fish, and then things quieted down. I just don't know why it becomes lethal in some cases and not others....but again, this may not be Myco.

Jay

Bleigh · Dec 5, 2020

Jay Hemdal said:
I don't see anything here that warrants using metroplex. Focus by itself is a mild antibiotic, but it won't cure Myco. I was on a call with Dr. Yanong (a major fish farm veterinarian) a few months ago and he reiterated there is no effective treatment for Myco. For Florida fish farms, they may perform a "slash and burn"; sterilizing everything, but in aquariums, I think the better option is to just provide the best environment possible, possibly use a UV sterilizer (to help control spread?), and then just hold tight to see how it shakes out. In all my years, I've only seen one case where Myco took out a whole group of fish - some pirate perch we were working with, the mortality was 100%. I know that other people have seen 100% mortality in groups of pupfish. In all other cases I've been up against, with mixed species, Myco took out older, more susceptible fish, and then things quieted down. I just don't know why it becomes lethal in some cases and not others....but again, this may not be Myco.

Jay

I have the 25 watt pentair running on a slower speed. It’s rated for a much larger tank. The fish still seem happy this morning.

if it isn’t myco, is there anything else you’d suggest me try? Or is it really just a waiting game to see if anything changes?

thank you so much for your help! Makes me feel better to have some kind of an answer.