Cyano and AF products

[m0jjen]

Hello!

I've been using your great product line for since i started my current tank in december. I am currently batteling cyano and some nuisance algae on the glas. Nothing major but enough to be a problem.

Im currently doing 10% WC with probiotic salt and dosing Aminomix, Energy, Build and Vitality along with powder food. My no3 has been 0 for aslong as I can remember. PO4 seem to be around 0.014-0.018 (according to my tritontest before the cyano outbreak).

Im also running the AF carbon in a bag.

To my question, Is there any products I should avoid to battle cyano or even add? I used to dose Pro f and Pro bio S but stopped since my po4 and no3 reached 0

 

[Rickyrooz]

I am not using AF products but I noticed once my P04 and N03 levels were close to undetectable I started to see cyano grow while dosing amino acids. Maybe if you stop dosing the aminos it will disappear?

 

[Fredrik]

Was thinking about stopping the aminos. Didnt dose the last 4 days and it actually seem to have gotten worse :/

 

[Perry]

When cyano arrives, I usually try and counter with water changes, siphoning as much out as I can. At this point, I usually try to suspend dosing until I feel it is breaking. I would imagine that carbon will help, and an increase in AF Build may be on order, as it helps with acidity that leads to cyano. That said, try and use the manual removal method as best as you can. Cut dosing down, and personally I feel the combo that works best is Pro Bio S and NP Pro. Since you seem low in nutrients, maybe 1/2 dosing will help. How do the corals look? How is the skimmer performing? Thanks!

 

[Piranhapat]

A few things that can causing your cyano. Not enough good bacteria. How powerful is your skimmer? I would add some kind of bacteria in bottle and shut off your skimmer for a few hours during the day. Make sure you run skimmer at night. Second make sure you have good flow through out the tank. I would continue adding amino to you have some nitrates. Also get your phosphate down to at least .04 . Remove the cyano by siphon it out as often you see it.

 

[Fredrik]

Okay lets see now. I have a deltec sc1456 preforming good. All my corals are healthy and looking good

A few things that can causing your cyano. Not enough good bacteria. How powerful is your skimmer? I would add some kind of bacteria in bottle and shut off your skimmer for a few hours during the day. Make sure you run skimmer at night. Second make sure you have good flow through out the tank. I would continue adding amino to you have some nitrates. Also get your phosphate down to at least .04 . Remove the cyano by siphon it out as often you see it.

My po4 is already below 0.04, its 0.014 atm. I already siphon it daily so disrupt it as much as i can.

Regarding flow i run two mp40 qd at 65% in a 90g so its plenty with flow

 

[nc208082]

are you dosing the pro bio s and np pro?

 

[m0jjen]

are you dosing the pro bio s and np pro?

I am not at the moment

 

[nc208082]

if your not carbon dosing than I would try raising your nitrates a little to see if that helps. It helped reduce it for me. Do not stop the aminos in fact I would even look at increasing that. I'm dosing 2x the recommend amount for that and I still have barely any nitrates and phosphates, since dosing nitrates my sps are starting to darken a bit more.

 

[m0jjen]

if your not carbon dosing than I would try raising your nitrates a little to see if that helps. It helped reduce it for me. Do not stop the aminos in fact I would even look at increasing that. I'm dosing 2x the recommend amount for that and I still have barely any nitrates and phosphates, since dosing nitrates my sps are starting to darken a bit more.

I am dosing roughly 0.75 ppm / day atm. Guess I can up the dosage since i get 0 PPM atm. Not doing carbon except for the granola carbon

 

[nc208082]

Yes you may have to dose a larger amount at first and then cut back the dosage. I'd double what your currently dosing if your still reading a 0.

 

[zoomonster]

Lots of factors that could be at play but I just finished the first 100ml bottles of pro bio s and np pro and I am still using V, B, A all at 8 drops for a 200g and I use pohl's coral vitalizer. Was not really impressed with the claim of reducing nitrates and phosphates (by pro bio S) but overall things have noticeably improved. I have had issues with red cyano, diatoms etc. on and off and now virtually non existent. Not sure if it was the NP Pro alone, the Coral E (basically KZ coral snow) or a combination of both. Also the really noticeable thing is the sand bed. I have always had various issues with it and now its a constant sparkling white almost like new sand. The glass however continues to grow some brown algae and unlike in the past I don't think I have ever seen it go totally green in this tank.

My overall opinion of pro bio s and np pro is they probably do what they claim but at a minor level. Now if you have a ultra low nutrient system, i.e. SPS only/low bio load, its probably enough to keep it that way. I like the V/B/A but I'm going to a bio pellet reactor and getting rid of the pro bio s and np pro (and PB salt I never tried). Especially in the 100ml bottles, for larger tanks, they are not very cost effective products. Even other than bio pellets I think there are more cost effective means of carbon dosing. As for Coral E I'm still using Pohl's. Eventually I may try it but a little wary that they use copper sulphate in it to bleach coral colors to get "pastel" colors.

 

[m0jjen]

Lots of factors that could be at play but I just finished the first 100ml bottles of pro bio s and np pro and I am still using V, B, A all at 8 drops for a 200g and I use pohl's coral vitalizer. Was not really impressed with the claim of reducing nitrates and phosphates (by pro bio S) but overall things have noticeably improved. I have had issues with red cyano, diatoms etc. on and off and now virtually non existent. Not sure if it was the NP Pro alone, the Coral E (basically KZ coral snow) or a combination of both. Also the really noticeable thing is the sand bed. I have always had various issues with it and now its a constant sparkling white almost like new sand. The glass however continues to grow some brown algae and unlike in the past I don't think I have ever seen it go totally green in this tank.

My overall opinion of pro bio s and np pro is they probably do what they claim but at a minor level. Now if you have a ultra low nutrient system, i.e. SPS only/low bio load, its probably enough to keep it that way. I like the V/B/A but I'm going to a bio pellet reactor and getting rid of the pro bio s and np pro (and PB salt I never tried). Especially in the 100ml bottles, for larger tanks, they are not very cost effective products. Even other than bio pellets I think there are more cost effective means of carbon dosing. As for Coral E I'm still using Pohl's. Eventually I may try it but a little wary that they use copper sulphate in it to bleach coral colors to get "pastel" colors.

So lets recap abit, you are using the reef salt, A,B,E,V (or simular) along with NP pro and Bio S. The difference for me is probiotic salt and no np pro + bio S. Im thinking about doing like debora and use zeo, po4 media and carbon in a reactor to completely strip the water clean and feed LOADS. Might be wrong here? I might concider bio S and NP pro then to begin with.

I run a SPS system with quite the fish load atm. 14 fish in a 90g. Two larger fish (not atm but they're growing), tangs.

 

[zoomonster]

So lets recap abit, you are using the reef salt, A,B,E,V (or simular) along with NP pro and Bio S. The difference for me is probiotic salt and no np pro + bio S. Im thinking about doing like debora and use zeo, po4 media and carbon in a reactor to completely strip the water clean and feed LOADS. Might be wrong here? I might concider bio S and NP pro then to begin with.

I run a SPS system with quite the fish load atm. 14 fish in a 90g. Two larger fish (not atm but they're growing), tangs.

No I don't use AQ salt of any kind but rather reef crystals. I just don't buy into boutique salts and other than RC I would use Tropic Marin. I have a 200g mixed with loads of SPS, some softies including a lot of ricordia, a couple LPS and I think I am at 34 mostly smaller fish with 3 tangs so quite the bio load also. The point I was making was that for a lot of people bio pellets are the current best option vs. consumable bio products like NP Pro and media like GFO, Zeovit etc. Sure bio pellets will eventually get consumed but way more cost effective and they work as well or better than all the hand me your cash products.

 

[m0jjen]

No I don't use AQ salt of any kind but rather reef crystals. I just don't buy into boutique salts and other than RC I would use Tropic Marin. I have a 200g mixed with loads of SPS, some softies including a lot of ricordia, a couple LPS and I think I am at 34 mostly smaller fish with 3 tangs so quite the bio load also. The point I was making was that for a lot of people bio pellets are the current best option vs. consumable bio products like NP Pro and media like GFO, Zeovit etc. Sure bio pellets will eventually get consumed but way more cost effective and they work as well or better than all the hand me your cash products.

Im with you! Not a biopellets fan. Read loads of negativ impacts it can have. Never testet it for myself though

 

[jsker]

I started running bio pellets 5 weeks ago. I am very happy with the results. I started with 1/8 recommend dose and I am up to 1/4 of a dose and going to stay there. I am still running AF NP-Pro and the phosphate minus.

 

[Syntax1235]

I'm also trying to get rid of a cyano problem. I have been dealing with it for a while before implementing the AF system and it has not improved, gotten worse I say. I've been reading the work of twillard using h2o2 to permanently eradicate cyano. Anyone tried it while using AF products?

 

[eg8r210]

I'm also trying to get rid of a cyano problem. I have been dealing with it for a while before implementing the AF system and it has not improved, gotten worse I say. I've been reading the work of twillard using h2o2 to permanently eradicate cyano. Anyone tried it while using AF products?

When you say "with AF products" which ones do you mean. If you are using the probiotic system then you should NOT use peroxide. One option, if you want to use the probiotics and don't want to wait for them to work (it takes a while to build up the bacteria) then stop using the probiotics and use the peroxide until you are free of cyano. Catch 22 though because it takes a while for the peroxide to start working also. I was having fantastic success with peroxide in my 300 gal system but it was slow. I decided to switch 100% to AF and take it slow also.

 

[Syntax1235]

I just started using the Pro Bio S and NP Pro last week along with ABC and Coral A,B,E and F. I'm not using the salt yet.

If I start peroxide I should stop dosing the bacteria and supplements?

How do you know the peroxide would negatively impact the probiotics?

 

[Perry]

FWIW I have used Boyd's Chemiclean Cyano product while running AF to rid myself of green cyano, I simply suspended use of AF Carbon, Phosphate Minus, Zeo Mix, skimming, and dosing of all products. After 3 days I began skimming, 4 days later did a 20% water change(Probiotic Reef Salt), and went online with fresh Carbon, Phosphate Minus, and Zeo Mix. I also resumed dosing, never had any issues with any life at all. NO3 did creep up a bit to 10ppm, but within 2 weeks back down to normal readings. Not everyone's cup of tea, but it did work, this was 4 months ago, no return of cyanos. Cheers!