Cyano Not Responding to H2O2 Treatment?

[DeepBrew]

I started having some red slime in the 75 gallon tank a few weeks ago. I noticed a little bit for a while and not bothered with it, then my blastos started shrinking so I turned off the GFO reactor based on advice in another thread. I did the H2O2 test, the water turned pink which indicates cyanobacteria. I recently got a microscope so I looked at some samples. It didn't look like spirulina so I decided to try dosing H2O2. I haven't used H2O2 before and decided to take it a little slow at first. Here is a shot of the tank:

I've been doing small water changes every other day and siphoning out as much as possible so you can't really see a lot in the picture. This is a 75 gallon tank with a 29 gallon sump. I think total water volume is probably around 80 gallons. I decided to start dosing 6ml of H2O2 twice a day to begin with. I didn't notice anything happening in the tank so I've slowly increased the dose to 10ml twice a day. At the 10ml dose zoas close up for a little while so I'm a bit reluctant to increase the dose more. Here is the doing history so far:

1/11/17 - 6ml x 2
1/12/17 - 6ml x 2
1/13/17 - 6ml x 2
1/14/17 - 7ml x 2
1/15/17 - 7ml x 2
1/16/17 - 8ml x 2
1/17/17 - 8ml x 2
1/18/17 - 8ml x 2
1/19/17 - 8ml x 2
1/20/17 - 10ml x 2
1/21/17 - 10ml x 2
1/22/17 - 10ml x 2
1/23/17 - 10ml x 2
1/24/17 - 10ml x 2

So far I haven't seen any improvement, in fact the red stuff has spread to other areas of the tank and there's more to siphon out. These are microscope pics of three samples taken in different areas of the tank on 1/22/17, after 12 days of dosing:




It looks like the same stuff in all of the samples. I'm no expert but it looks like pictures of cyanobacteria I've seen in other posts. Based on what I've read on R2R I expected to see some results by now.

Do I just need to give it more time at the higher dose?

I'm not running any carbon or GFO right now because the blastos still aren't fully recovered. Should I consider starting a reactor back up?

 

[DeepBrew]

Oh, water parameters:

Ammonia: 0(API)
Nitrite: 0(API)
Nitrate: 5ppm(API)
Phosphate: 0 (API)
Calcium: 480ppm (Salifert)
Alkalinity: 8.2 (Salifert)
Magnesium: 1500+ (Salifert)
pH: 8.1

I've been using Instant Ocean salt and noticed Ca and Mg climbing even though I'm not dosing either. The box of salt I have is testing way high on both of those and freshly mixed water has an alkalinity of 12dKH. I've ordered a box of Fritz RPM, hopefully it will be more in line with where I'd like the tank to be.

Also, the only thing being added to this tank other than food and H2O2 is 8ml of BRS Soda Ash solution to keep the alkalinity stable.

 

[DeepBrew]

Nearly all of the cyano I siphoned out yesterday is back this afternoon and there's a couple places I missed yesterday. I'm going to do another clean up tonight and put the reactor back online with carbon & GFO to see if that helps slow it down some.

If there's anyone who has other ideas I can try please share them.

Thanks!

 

[DeepBrew]

I siphoned out most all of the cyano I could see tonight and started the reactor back. I have 1/2 cup of ROX 0.8 carbon and 1/3 cup of BRS high capacity GFO stacked in a single tube so the carbon is tight but the GFO can tumble. The GFO amount is half what the BRS calculator recommends so maybe it will help some but not make it too clean.

BTW, my Fritz RPM salt came in today. I mixed a couple gallons and am pleased with the numbers so far:

Salinity: 35ppt
Alkalinity: 8.3 dKH
Calcium: 420 ppm
Magnesium: 1380 ppm
pH: 8.2

That's pretty much exactly where I want to keep the tank so hopefully it will work out well.

 

[BigHildy53]

Following because I have cyano also.

 

[DeepBrew]

It's been two days since I started running carbon and GFO again. I'm still dosing 10ml of H2O2 daily. New cyano growth in the last two days may be a bit slower than before starting the reactor back up but there's no sign that it's really dying back yet.

 

[DeepBrew]

Well, adding the carbon/GFO reactor has not slowed down the red slime. I dosed H2O2 for 10 days at 10ml 2x daily and it hasn't seemed to slow down the nasties at all. I cleaned as much as possible out yesterday and did about a 20% water change. I've also bought Red Sea nitrate and phosphate tests to get a more accurate picture of the water quality. I'll pot test results in a little while. If I don't get other suggestions I'm likely to start Chemiclean and see if it will work.

 

[bios]

Decrease lights intensity and time
And increase flow

 

[twilliard]

It is because you are only 5 days in using the minimum dosage for your water volume. You started with an amount that would be ineffective.
For that cyano (phormidium sp.) you will find yourself around 12ml each dose.

 

[DeepBrew]

Thanks for the reassurance, @twilliard !

Actually, yesterday was day 9 of dosing 10ml twice daily. I will start dosing 12ml today. How long do you think it will be before I see some results?

This morning's water parameters are:

Salinity - 35 ppt (calibrated refractometer)
Ammonia - 0 ppm
Nitrate - 4 ppm (Red Sea, both normal and high range test)
Nitrate - 10 ppm (API)
Phosphate - 0.02 ppm (Red Sea)
Calcium - 440 ppm (Salifert)
Alkalinity - 8.0 (Salifert)
Magnesium -1360 (Red Sea)
pH - 8.25 (cheap meter)

This is the first time I've used the Red Sea nitrate and phosphate tests. The phosphate test went fine. I did the normal nitrate test and since it looked like it was at the top of the color chart I decided to do the high range version. I did the high range version twice and both times there was a lot of precipitate in the test vial. I don't know if that's normal for that test. Both times I got a very light color pink, so I'm calling the nitrates 4 ppm by the Red Sea test. I did the API test as a backup. I read higher than I expected at 10 ppm but I'm not sure how reliable it is.

 

[DeepBrew]

Decrease lights intensity and time
And increase flow

This tank has a strip LED that provides most of the light and a 2 bulb standard output T5 that fills in the shadows a few hours each day. I'm going to leave the LED off for a few days and see if that in combination with the increased H2O2 dose will start making progress.

Thanks!

 

[DeepBrew]

Today is day 5 of dosing 12ml 2 x daily based on @twilliard 's advice. There is definitely progress being made now.I siphoned gunk out for the first time since Sunday. I think it has retracted some over the week, the mats were smaller and thicker and there were almost no bubbles under them. The shrimp is still alive but he looks a little rough, his antennae are really short. Other than that everything seems to be handling the H2O2 OK.

 

[wattson]

Following several cyano threads that are dosing H2O2,,I have not seen any info about dosing H2O2 and macro algae in the system,,,Is there any side affects dosing h2o2 1ml/10gal. with a refugium full of macro algaes ?

 

[Whipples]

tagging along as I am in the beginning of cyano and gathering info on treatments. we're in it together now!

 

[DeepBrew]

Following several cyano threads that are dosing H2O2,,I have not seen any info about dosing H2O2 and macro algae in the system,,,Is there any side affects dosing h2o2 1ml/10gal. with a refugium full of macro algaes ?

I have a refugium in my sump with a ball of chaeto that's about the size of a cantaloupe right now. The H2O2 hasn't disturbed it at all. In fact the sump is super clean at the moment, a ball of chaeto and no other algae. Before starting the H2O2 process there were various red, green and brown algae growing in the sump and cyano was starting to grow in the chaeto ball. That's all gone now.

The tomini tang and starry blenny keep the rocks in the display tank picked pretty clean but there is a little bit of halimeda which seems to be doing fine. I've noticed fewer copepods on the glass, but I don't have anything in the tank that's really dependent on them. I think they will bounce back once the H2O2 dosing stops.

tagging along as I am in the beginning of cyano and gathering info on treatments. we're in it together now!

I highly recommend reading @twilliard 's threads if you haven't done so already. Also, if you can get access to a microscope take a look at what's actually growing in your tank. I have this 75 gallon tank and a 40 breeder which both had "cyano" problems that looked identical to the naked eye. Under the microscope they are obviously different organisms and needed to be treated differently.

 

[Griff]

Following along also

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

May I ask, are you an a reverse light cycle with the refugium?

 

[DeepBrew]

May I ask, are you an a reverse light cycle with the refugium?

Yes, reverse light cycle in the refugium. The main tank is lit from noon- to 9 PM and the fuge is lit from 4 AM until noon.

Today is water change day. I'll do it later this afternoon. Right now I don't see any signs of cyano in the display.

 

[Griff]

Yes, reverse light cycle in the refugium. The main tank is lit from noon- to 9 PM and the fuge is lit from 4 AM until noon.

Today is water change day. I'll do it later this afternoon. Right now I don't see any signs of cyano in the display.

That's good news!

 

[Griff]

Is it normal for cyano not to grow in mats on sand bed. I only get it on my rocks.