Cycle Help

[Imthatguybrandon]

Hey @brandon429 wanted to quickly confirm a few things. I did another test this morning and it seems that my ammonia is pretty high. I am estimating anywhere between 4-8ppm based on the test sample.

PH 8.0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia 4- 8ppm

Is my ammonia being this high problematic? This can effectively stall or kill my cycle correct? At this point do I just ghost feed my tank or do a water change? I live about 5 minutes way from my LFS so I can go pick up some RODI and fish food if needed since I'm still waiting for my booster pump to arrive an don't have any food on hand.

 

[collins.jason.k]

Hey @brandon429 wanted to quickly confirm a few things. I did another test this morning and it seems that my ammonia is pretty high. I am estimating anywhere between 4-8ppm based on the test sample.

PH 8.0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia 4- 8ppm

Is my ammonia being this high problematic? This can effectively stall or kill my cycle correct? At this point do I just ghost feed my tank or do a water change? I live about 5 minutes way from my LFS so I can go pick up some RODI and fish food if needed since I'm still waiting for my booster pump to arrive an don't have any food on hand.

If you added the pinch of food that @brandon429 suggested at beginning of thread, you don't have to do anything but wait until the start date he provided to you (19th). Once the day comes do your water change and then you're good to go!

 

[twentyleagues]

Hey @brandon429 wanted to quickly confirm a few things. I did another test this morning and it seems that my ammonia is pretty high. I am estimating anywhere between 4-8ppm based on the test sample.

PH 8.0
Nitrite: 0
Ammonia 4- 8ppm

Is my ammonia being this high problematic? This can effectively stall or kill my cycle correct? At this point do I just ghost feed my tank or do a water change? I live about 5 minutes way from my LFS so I can go pick up some RODI and fish food if needed since I'm still waiting for my booster pump to arrive an don't have any food on hand.

dont add anymore ammonia via food or anything.

 

[Garf]

Is my ammonia being this high problematic

Would not be harmful to bacteria, but if you had prematurely added fish, that’s a different scenario. Leave it like that for a really strong cycle (will take a little longer) or you can ditch some water and get a weaker cycle, which will be quicker.
Sounds like you’ve found this process useful in working out a few testing issues, at least. The reef tank testing apprenticeship has commenced, Happy reefing.

 

[Imthatguybrandon]

If you added the pinch of food that @brandon429 suggested at beginning of thread, you don't have to do anything but wait until the start date he provided to you (19th). Once the day comes do your water change and then you're good to go!

Didn't any food yet!

 

[Imthatguybrandon]

Would not be harmful to bacteria, but if you had prematurely added fish, that’s a different scenario. Leave it like that for a really strong cycle (will take a little longer) or you can ditch some water and get a weaker cycle, which will be quicker.
Sounds like you’ve found this process useful in working out a few testing issues, at least. The reef tank testing apprenticeship has commenced, Happy reefing.

Yes, haha! I'll just let it run it's' course at this point!

 

[Garf]

Yes, haha! I'll just let it run it's' course at this point!

For what it’s worth I’ve always added a little crushed flake during the cycle. I’m at a loss as to why some folk think it’s a “new thing”.

 

[brandon429]

fully agreed, it's so simple that it's doubted and that makes sense too because the cycling rules we can find on google/youtube/magazine articles are test based exclusively, they aren't time-based cycles, that's too new info. cycle salespersons have made the system so convoluted that nobody can feel safe unless they buy six repeat bottles of bacteria.

in this case, he's posted another thread of very cloudy water which can easily be a mix of substrate clouding and/or ammonia=bac bloom from the copious amounts of bacteria we're trained to use, so, he needs to make the ending water change 100% so the system is clear vs cloudy. the bacteria that adhered to rocks during the wait time will remain on the rocks and the full water change can't peel them off but it will export whatever the cloud is

the clouding as it sits now isn't harming the cycle progress at all, just leave it in place until the stated change date.

if he pours back in water and it instantly clouds, that's unrinsed sandbed clouding/wait longer and it will clear or just redo the sand rinse part and it will clear, and the rocks will still have their cycling bac attached.

further testing can't help here it can only cause doubt and make this cycle take 72 days he he

 

[brandon429]

*if the fish food hasn't been added, then move my close finish date out accordingly after it has been added.

 

[Imthatguybrandon]

*if the fish food hasn't been added, then move my close finish date out accordingly after it has been added.

Thanks @brandon429 I'll pick up some fish flakes after work and add it! Leaving your tank alone during the cycle is a lot easier said than done

 

[twentyleagues]

Can someone please explain the food pinch to me please. In particular for this instance but in general besides waste what does it bring to the table. If op added ammonium chloride, ammonia tests at 8, what will the fish food do? Don't comment on the test validity, say we know its 8 without doubt. Im trying to wrap my feeble brain around this food pinch stuff.

 

[brandon429]

its a new thing because the op didn't show up doing it, from the training they read.

it's a new thing because it's not part of online cycle training articles or blogs on cycling, and it's a new thing because Dr. Reef wasn't using the trick a few years ago when he began his cycle studies, it gets discovered along the way.

it's a new thing Garf because in using the fish food to make up for variables unstated and stated, we can pick a specific start date for any cycle and you've never been doing that at all. all cycles for you have been open-ended, test-based cycles strictly. the addition of carbon in the fish food plus the ammonia that results from protein digestion of the fish food streamlines variables that used to make cycles hard to pinpoint to an exact ready date.

I too had been using fish food for years, but only knew about the carbon component boost for the last five. I truly thought it was strictly just an alternate ammonia source this whole time. it was new to me as well.

 

[Garf]

Can someone please explain the food pinch to me please. In particular for this instance but in general besides waste what does it bring to the table. If op added ammonium chloride, ammonia tests at 8, what will the fish food do? Don't comment on the test validity, say we know its 8 without doubt. Im trying to wrap my feeble brain around this food pinch stuff.

The bacteria that are present in a running tank do far more than just reduce ammonia. Preparing a tank for the real world beyond the ammonia reduction has always seemed like a good idea to me.

 

[twentyleagues]

its a new thing because the op didn't show up doing it, from the training they read.

it's a new thing because it's not part of online cycle training articles or blogs on cycling, and it's a new thing because Dr. Reef wasn't using the trick a few years ago when he began his cycle studies, it gets discovered along the way.

it's a new thing Garf because in using the fish food to make up for variables unstated and stated, we can pick a specific start date for any cycle and you've never been doing that at all. all cycles for you have been open-ended, test-based cycles strictly. the addition of carbon in the fish food plus the ammonia that results from protein digestion of the fish food streamlines variables that used to make cycles hard to pinpoint to an exact ready date.

I too had been using fish food for years, but only knew about the carbon component boost for the last five. I truly thought it was strictly just an alternate ammonia source this whole time. it was new to me as well.

ok so not just more ammonia but a carbon source as well. That makes sense. The carbon dosing is something ive done in the past when "we" were all trying to achieve 0/0 and not knowing the true outcome of that. So would any of those carbon adds vodka, vinegar, sugar water, actually help or hinder a cycle? Obviously not in huge quantities.

 

[Garf]

its a new thing because the op didn't show up doing it, from the training they read.

it's a new thing because it's not part of online cycle training articles or blogs on cycling, and it's a new thing because Dr. Reef wasn't using the trick a few years ago when he began his cycle studies, it gets discovered along the way.

it's a new thing Garf because in using the fish food to make up for variables unstated and stated, we can pick a specific start date for any cycle and you've never been doing that at all. all cycles for you have been open-ended, test-based cycles strictly. the addition of carbon in the fish food plus the ammonia that results from protein digestion of the fish food streamlines variables that used to make cycles hard to pinpoint to an exact ready date.

I too had been using fish food for years, but only knew about the carbon component boost for the last five. I truly thought it was strictly just an alternate ammonia source this whole time. it was new to me as well.

Bacteria (well, everything) needs phosphate also. That’s one heavily edited reply, lol.

 

[Garf]

we can pick a specific start date for any cycle and you've never been doing that at all.

Correct.

Edit - I also add 11 cups of salt to my 100ltr saltwater mixing bin. Do I check the salinity before using, oh yes, dang right I do.

 

[Imthatguybrandon]

Alright, so I'll be doing the water change tomorrow based on the date from adding the fish flakes. I will be doing a 54% water change (27 Gallons) out of the 50g tank. I will also be adding carbon to my filter media. After completing the water change, should I replace my mechanical filtration ? I currently have 3 filter floss pads sitting on different levels of my media basket! I plan to pick up some clowns tomorrow after the water change has been completed.

Side note, I decided to test my ammonia, and it is still at the level previously stated in the thread. I am following the process you laid out @brandon429 but just wanted to flag an updated test. I will provide an update tomorrow after the change and fish have been added.

 

[Imthatguybrandon]

Post Cycle Day 2

Woke up this morning fish look like they are doing well eating and swimming around. Test conduceted this morning with the Red Sea test kits

- PH 7.8
-Ammonia 1.2
- Nitrite 0
- Nitrate 2
- Salinity 32ppt

Ammonia went down from yesterday, I'll continue to monitor maybe do a large water change again if the numbers spike again!

 

[Rmckoy]

From the old way to this new science theory .
In my mind . Ghost feeding will only add more ammonia as it decomposes .

I would want the ammonia present to be processed and at that time when ammonia is zero I would perform a large water change and call it ready to add fish .

How long can you continue adding food and it be safe to add fish ?
There will always be ammonia or some sort of nitrogen as it’s being added daily .