CYCLE OVER?????? Nitrates sky high!!

[Ryan Rioux]

I believe the cycle has ended , nitrates s

uddenly dropped over the past 2 days. My nitrates are skyhigh , between 40-80ppm. Should I do a water change to lower nitrates and should water still be dosed with ammonia til fish? If so how much ammonia? 1-2 ML daily?

 

[CastAway]

A water change is recommended just after the initial cycle.

 

[Ryan Rioux]

A water change is recommended just after the initial cycle.

30-40% water change? Exact salinity as tank im assuming .

 

[tankstudy]

You want to do water changes until your nitrates are about 10 ppm or lower. If your nitrates are about 60-80 ppm. If you do x3 - 50% water changes you should get there.

You'll go from 60 ppm->30 ppm ->15 ppm->7.5 ppm.

or

You'll go from 80 ppm -> 40 ppm -> 20 ppm -> 10 ppm.

 

[CastAway]

40% would be good I think. Exact salinity is ideal, and a habit you want to start now, even though you may not have livestock.

The "cycle" is not something that starts and stops, it's continuous, and the variety of bacteria you have now need a continual source of food. So, not knowing if you do, you need livestock now.

 

[Ryan Rioux]

You want to do water changes until your nitrates are about 10 ppm or lower. If your nitrates are about 60-80 ppm. If you do x3 - 50% water changes you should get there.

You'll go from 60 ppm->30 ppm ->15 ppm->7.5 ppm.

or

You'll go from 80 ppm -> 40 ppm -> 20 ppm -> 10 ppm.

Could I do the 3 50% water changes back to back to back. Or one daily for 3 days.

 

[Ryan Rioux]

40% would be good I think. Exact salinity is ideal, and a habit you want to start now, even though you may not have livestock.

The "cycle" is not something that starts and stops, it's continuous, and the variety of bacteria you have now need a continual source of food. So, not knowing if you do, you need livestock now.

I was going to quarantine some fish first but what your saying is I should maybe introduce a couple of clowns into the tank .

 

[CastAway]

Suggest a clean up crew first, some snails and or hermits. Usually, a tanks has a case of the uglies after the initial cycle, algae, diatoms, and so on. Can't say much on quarantine myself, as I don't do that. We'll see what the experts say on the need to quarantine first additions...

 

[Jlobes]

if you are thinking about QT, then yes you want to QT the first fish and all fish. In theory you even want to QT corals/inverts/CUC as well, if you want to be truly careful and preventative.

there are many methods/concepts of QT, choose the one that works best for you. Personally, i like TTM, followed by observation in QT tank for another two weeks with prazipro administered either with TTM or in the QT. but that may no be/work for you. whatever you choose, do it right and follow the guidelines, no use putting in the time and effort to do it halfway.

I also suggest a CUC first, and if you put it in now before the fish..they would effectively be in QT until then. I wouldt add a CUC rated to the size of your tank, id go a bit(30-50%) smaller, but start there. then get a fish and QT, then add to DT. youre on the way to a fun tank!

 

[Ryan Rioux]

if you are thinking about QT, then yes you want to QT the first fish and all fish. In theory you even want to QT corals/inverts/CUC as well, if you want to be truly careful and preventative.

there are many methods/concepts of QT, choose the one that works best for you. Personally, i like TTM, followed by observation in QT tank for another two weeks with prazipro administered either with TTM or in the QT. but that may no be/work for you. whatever you choose, do it right and follow the guidelines, no use putting in the time and effort to do it halfway.

I also suggest a CUC first, and if you put it in now before the fish..they would effectively be in QT until then. I wouldt add a CUC rated to the size of your tank, id go a bit(30-50%) smaller, but start there. then get a fish and QT, then add to DT. youre on the way to a fun tank!

I'm still waiting on the QT tank to cycle, I did that one with a shrimp, removed it yesterday and it smelled disgusting. Added some bio-spira into QT and have to check levels today. In the mean time should I be dosing small amounts of ammonia into DT to keep bacteria fed? Also what is TTM? I don't have much algae or any diatoms yet in tank? What will a cleanup crew feed on ? I'm going To try and do a couple 50% water changes today. I WORK a lot so time is limited.

 

[Reeferfourlife]

You can do large water change but not everyday for 3 times. I suggest giving it a few day for beneficial bacteria to grow between water change. Get some cleaning crew to start with.

 

[brandon429]

one of the hardest rules of microbiology to understand in reefing is that once you establish bacteria on a massive surface area equal to six football fields, you don't have to do anything for the microbes to persist. aquarists are sure you have to feed them, but you don't, due to the myriad ways established bac on massive surface area reserves resource their own feed, without aquarists help. it doesn't mean you can't feed, it means if you don't nothing will happen. your cycle is done when your tank takes 3 ppm of verified ammonia to zero within 24 hours a couple times, all else is personal preference.

You do not have to feed established bacteria in live rock, they attain feed just fine if your rock is in a home and not setup in a positive pressure microbiology lab.

 

[DeniseAndy]

What corals are you planning for the tank? If you are thinking softies, I would go ahead and add a mushroom or other softie.

 

[beaslbob]

FWIW and IMHO the cycle never ends. But the spikes do go away.

(I know I know pickie pickie LOL)

consider:
If you are increasing nitrates at 1ppm/day and change out 10% of the water with 0% nitrate water, nitrates will wind up and 100ppm just before any of the water changes. Then back down to 90 and back up to 100 before the next water change.

In order to get the nitrates down you (simply) need to increase the nitrate consumers. I like macro and other algaes in a refugium.


With algae in the system should something go bump in the night and ammonia jump up, the algae will consume that ammonia directly preventing the dangers spikes and possible tank crash. During that Nitrates will spike up but then go back down as the ammonia returns to normal.

my .02

 

[Ryan Rioux]

What corals are you planning for the tank? If you are thinking softies, I would go ahead and add a mushroom or other softie.

Not sure . I was told to wait 4-6 months for corals .

 

[Ryan Rioux]

FWIW and IMHO the cycle never ends. But the spikes do go away.

(I know I know pickie pickie LOL)

consider:
If you are increasing nitrates at 1ppm/day and change out 10% of the water with 0% nitrate water, nitrates will wind up and 100ppm just before any of the water changes. Then back down to 90 and back up to 100 before the next water change.

In order to get the nitrates down you (simply) need to increase the nitrate consumers. I like macro and other algaes in a refugium.


With algae in the system should something go bump in the night and ammonia jump up, the algae will consume that ammonia directly preventing the dangers spikes and possible tank crash. During that Nitrates will spike up but then go back down as the ammonia returns to normal.

my .02

Lol I'm pretty new to this. You kinda lost me after macro...

 

[DeniseAndy]

Certainly wait on anemones and other more difficult corals such as sps or delicate species. However, if you are going to keep softies (mushrooms, leathers, etc) no need to really wait that long.

I think opinions are very different on this subject. Patience is key, but so is being smart about it. Do not go out and add 10 sps in 4 months having nothing else in there. You will not be able to support the needs. It is best to go slowly with a one or two at a time and get the hang of things. Learn your system. Learn your likes.

You really need to find out what you want to stock and what look you want. This will help you determine when to add, what parameters are needed and how maintenance will be done (equipment, water changes, dosing, etc).

 

[beaslbob]

Lol I'm pretty new to this. You kinda lost me after macro...

You follow most of it.
algae like macros and most plant life actually prefer to consume ammonia. But in a "cycled" system the aerobic bacteria get the ammonia, so the algae is forced to consume nitrates for nitrogen. So if you overfeed, something dies or whatever ammonia production increases. With algae what happens is the algae consumes the ammonia directly so no ammonia spike is noted.

In my old 55g I just crammed in 1/4 plastic grid egg crate 3" in front of the back glass and added 2 2 tube utility fixtures behind the tank pointing forward. The area between the glass and egg crate formed a refugium where macros and post thrived. Nitrates dropped to unmeasureable in 3 weeks (from your levels) and phosphates a few month later. Meanwhile my yellow tang enjoyed grazing on the macros that poked through and pod eaters like the pods also.

Just an old school balanced tank approach.

my .02

 

[tankstudy]

Could I do the 3 50% water changes back to back to back. Or one daily for 3 days.

I would do one daily.

 

[Ryan Rioux]

Not sure . I was told to wait 4-6 months for corals .

I like fish more then corals. Should've done fish only .

You follow most of it.
algae like macros and most plant life actually prefer to consume ammonia. But in a "cycled" system the aerobic bacteria get the ammonia, so the algae is forced to consume nitrates for nitrogen. So if you overfeed, something dies or whatever ammonia production increases. With algae what happens is the algae consumes the ammonia directly so no ammonia spike is noted.

In my old 55g I just crammed in 1/4 plastic grid egg crate 3" in front of the back glass and added 2 2 tube utility fixtures behind the tank pointing forward. The area between the glass and egg crate formed a refugium where macros and post thrived. Nitrates dropped to unmeasureable in 3 weeks (from your levels) and phosphates a few month later. Meanwhile my yellow tang enjoyed grazing on the macros that poked through and pod eaters like the pods also.

Just an old school balanced tank approach.

my .02

I'm not quite sure how to do that. At least not yet.
so I came from a LFS , and they tested my water and they tested 12-25 nitrates. And said API is too inconsistent . They tested with a NYOS. So I bought a NYOS test kit for nitrate. Expensive . $30 for one kit. And I also bought 4 hermits . Reason that they're may be no algae or diatom is because the lights have been off MOST of the time. Sucks going back and forth to LFS to buy RO/DI water in 5 gallon jugs. Don't I still need ammonia daily ?The fish store says no because I have live rock , (7lbs out of 70lbs) was fully cured.