Cycling

[Striike]

Ok, now the questions begin.

I am currently in the cycle stage of my aquarium set up, so I wanted to clarify a couple of things:
1. I just had my wife run a water test. The Ammonia is 0, the Nitrates are ~5. So I'm assuming I am in the second part of the bacteria growth, waiting for those little guys to grow enough to process the Nitrates into Nitrites. This is 100lbs of uncured, and 35lbs of cured rock together. I have been cycling for a little over 2 weeks, don't remember exact amount of time. Is this normal? I would have expected the Ammonia to stay up for a little while during the die off of the uncured rock, and for the Ammonia and Nitrates to drop about the same time. Any thoughts on this?

2. Yellow Water. So, my water is yellow, which I kind of expected. From what I understand, that is a high concentration of protein in the water coming from the die off in the live rock. Now with enough protein to turn my water yellow, would I not expect a decent amount of Ammonia in the Water? I realize carbon and water changes can help alleviate this, but I don't want to water change until after the cycle is done, and I do not want to use carbon ever if possible. Thoughts?

3. Giving my curing rock a close look, I'm noticing a lot of crap on them that I missed during the initial cleaning. A lot of it is hanging there, and a lot is falling off as the powerheads push water by. I've been thinking of re-cleaning the rock (in a salt water tub) to try and get all the excess junk off them, is that something that normally happens? When I look at some of these tanks that are 'just set up' their rock is clean as a whistle.

4. Cycling the rock. I have seen articles about using live rock to cycle your tank when you first set up, which has been my plan of attack. I just want a clear answer: Will uncured rock cycle the tank fully?

 

[ricwilli]

It will be a good idea to remove the stuff that you can see hanging on the rocks as well as doing water changes. You should do 50% water changes at least twice a week while checking for amonia and nitrates. You will see the water get clear. You will get the bacteria from the stuff thats dead on the rocks.

 

[ironman]

first off im not sure you are getting the terms right? If you have no ammonia and 5ppm nitrate then you either have cycled or something is wrong. You should start with high ammonia, escpecially with uncured rock. Then as the ammonia starts going down your nitrites would rise, as the cycle completes you should have your nitrites drop to zero and your nitrates go up. Then once you get your nitrates down you are stable.
I would scrub any dead growth off the rock, you dont need anymore dead decaying junk in the tank. there is enough in the rock that you cant get to. as far as the yellow water, Are you using a protien skimmer? To cure rock and really to have live rock in general you really need to be running a protien skimmer to remove the heavy waste.

 

[blueray]

I found this old graph. When I start my tank 4 years ago. It kind of close to the water parameters for my tank.

 

[bkv1997]

Do you have a protein skimmer on your tank? If not I'd recommend making the investment.

Brandon

 

[Striike]

Sorry for the slow response, been out of town at work, and playing catch up since I got back. Thank you to everyone for commenting on my questions.

@ricwilli - I've heard both methods, doing water changes, and not doing water changes. I'm looking for some clarification as to why I should do water changes, other than to lower the Nitrates at the end?

@ironman - I got the terms right, but did mix up nitrate and nitrite as far as stages in my cycle. Just to clarify, Ammonia is 0, Nitrites is 0, and Nitrates is 5. Those numbers don't seem to add up right. I've been cycling a little less than 4 weeks now.

@All - Yes, I'm running a skimmer. I wasn't expecting it to keep up with 135lbs of rock during the cycle, but I did expect some ammonia levels while the water was yellow.

I guess it is possible my cycle is actually done. I am now running my actinic lights 6 hours a day, and am starting to see pink and red dots appearing all over my rock. The water is starting to look a lot less yellow. I took advice and scrubbed off all the loose junk I could get to. I'm not happy with my sump, so I think I'll try a water change (thanks willi) when I go to modify it (gotta drain out some water anyway).

 

[iceman0124]

Ever been on a 5-7 day nonstop flight? Imagine being on a nonstop flight for the life of your tank with no freah air, toilets cleaned, all yours and everone elses biological leavings just building up in your stale air supply, which while oxygenated is depleated of other essential elements....water changes on regular basis, say 25% a month will do wonders for your tank, even with supplements, you cant beat a nice properly done regualr water change, it keeps everything in balance and IMO are more important than any expensive piece of equipment. just be sure to it right, airate and heat the water to proper temps for at leat 8-12 hours before adding it to the tank, dont add salt directly, and dont dump in a slurry, the water should be crystal clear when you add it into the tank.

A little carbon will remove the yellow in a jiffy.

 

[Striike]

Iceman, thank you for the information on this, very clear description. But I still need clarification on water changes during the cycle. I guess what I'm thinking is: If the nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia get to dangerous levels during cycle, so what? Its only rock and sand in the tank. I was thinking let nature run its course, and worry about getting to the proper levels once the ammonia and nitrites reside at 0. Is this a bad idea? If so, why?

FYI, haven't done a water change yet because I haven't modified my sump. My nitrites and ammonia still reside at 0, but my nitrates have raised from 5 to 20. I'm thinking my cycle is complete. Does that sound correct?

I have a garbage can in the garage full of salt water with a heater and powerhead in it. I'm concerned because you mentioned 'proper airation.' Does that include the water in that garbage can? I have the lid clamped on to prevent evaporation so the water is always ready.

Thank you to everyone for the info so far. You've all been very helpfull.

 

[Striike]

Well, I think I answered my own question about the Nitrates. I've recently started running my lights in my tank, since my tests are showing my cycle is complete, and have noticed quite a bit of brown stuff appearing on my glass and rock. Did some research, and I got diatom brown algae, or some wording to that effect. Apparently, this stuff grows in newly set up tanks off nutrients, and nitrates. Imagine that, lol. I am finally done upgrading my sump, so my water change will happen tonight. I'll let you guys know how well this works.

 

[iceman0124]

A diatom bloom is normal, the main culprit is the silicates in your sand, the diatoms will grow rapidly , then quickly die off when their soure of food gets exhausted.

Aireted water is moving water, the lid is fine, you just dont want still stagnant water.

 

[Striike]

A diatom bloom is normal, the main culprit is the silicates in your sand, the diatoms will grow rapidly , then quickly die off when their soure of food gets exhausted.

Can you elaborate? Silicates in the sand? I specifically got argonite sand because of all the reviews of silicate sand causing algae blooms. Are you saying silicate is in the argonite as well?

 

[iceman0124]

A diatom bloom is normal, even without a sandbed, in fresh and saltwater, its part of the cycle. Its not something to worry about and not something you should try to fight, let it be and pretty quickly it will depelte its food source and die off as quickly as it came in.

 

[Striike]

Good deal. I didn't know it was part of the freshwater cycle too. I have a fresh water tank that has some of the same trouble with the brown stuff. Good to hear it will go away eventually.

 

[iceman0124]

It should go away pretty quickly unless you tired to fight it off, or it could indicate something wrong with your water or additives. At my old place a thimble full of tap water could trigger a bloom.

 

[Striike]

I am using tab water (I put that chlorination stuff in it). I tested the water, but since I didn't buy the "ultra" expensive water test, I can only test ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and pH. Is there something specifically I should check? And where can I get that checked?

I know RO/DI units are the way to go, but that's an investment for later, and only if absolutely necessary.

 

[iceman0124]

Phospahtes, silicates, minerals you dont want in excess and tons of other nasties, dechlorinater is basically pointless for saltwater, the salt pretty much insatantly neutralizes the chlorine, but not the other stuff that can contribute to very poor water quality. 5'th day sells premixed RO/DI water for $1 a gallon, thats what I use for my nano as I dont have any practical way of rigging an RO unit in my apratment. I strogly suggest you look into a better source of water and do several large water changes, turn the tank over say two to three times over a month with good clean water, especiallly if you plan on any SPS. Most tap water is instant alge as its riddled with the stuff it feeds on.

When I cant get fresh RO/DI water, I buy crystal bottled water in 2.5 gallon jugs, it has added minerals for taste which I wish it didnt but it is better than tap, runs a little over $2 at wally world.

 

[Striike]

Ok, I'm guessing this is normal, but I was thinking my cycle was almost over. My nitrates were around 20 so I performed a 30gal water change. My tank has ~104gal including sump. The next day, the nitrates were still at 20, so I performed another 30 gallon water change. Today, my wife just tested, and the nitrates are up to 40! What am I missing guys? I had her check the tab water, and the pre-mixed salt water in my garage, and both come up 0. My tank is no over run with brown diatom. Should I just let it run its course, and be patient, or is there something else going on here?

 

[iceman0124]

Be paitent. The cycle varies it can be long or short depending on how the tank was setup, if I remeber right you had a good bit of live rock curing in your tank, thats gonna be a big setback due to the die off.

 

[Striike]

My overflow box and my return pump both came with foam filters on them. Is there any issue with using these? I rinse them out occasionally, but didn't know if I was missing something.

 

[bkv1997]

Striike:

Unless you get a skimmer you can expect to have nitrates of some sort. The goal is to remove the waste prior to it braking down to that level.

Unless you are worried about a snail/etc stopping up the pipe I'd remove any sponges and/or bioballs from your setup.

Brandon