DC Pumps: Ecotech vs. Royal Exclusiv vs. Abyzz

[gcarroll]

Vertex has a new DC Pump coming as well. It should be a nice addition to the high end market.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Actually DC pumps are more efficient IMO. You are forgetting amount of heat produced by AC pumps

Watt for watt, an AC pump won't create any more heat. In actuality, if you want the least amount of heat, you should get a external air cooled pump. Any of the submersible pumps use tank water to cool the impeller, so literally 99.9% of the wattage consumed is converted back to heat that is directly dumped into the tank. With an external model (Iwaki/Reeflo) atleast some of the heat from the motor block is dissipated into the air, at the cost of more noise and a hotter cabinet. I do think that these DC pumps are usually lower pressure/higher volume than say an Iwaki pump. You need to compare them at your given head pressure/wattage/GPH, and I think they will be allot closer than you think. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The type of motor is allot less important than the quality of the motor when talking about efficiency.

 

[ksed]

Well said!

Watt for watt, an AC pump won't create any more heat. In actuality, if you want the least amount of heat, you should get a external air cooled pump. Any of the submersible pumps use tank water to cool the impeller, so literally 99.9% of the wattage consumed is converted back to heat that is directly dumped into the tank. With an external model (Iwaki/Reeflo) atleast some of the heat from the motor block is dissipated into the air, at the cost of more noise and a hotter cabinet. I do think that these DC pumps are usually lower pressure/higher volume than say an Iwaki pump. You need to compare them at your given head pressure/wattage/GPH, and I think they will be allot closer than you think. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The type of motor is allot less important than the quality of the motor when talking about efficiency.

 

[Hans24hrs]

I have a Vectra L1. I switched to this from a reeflo dart hybrid. Honestly I am not impressed with the GPH/ strength of the pump. I wish they made another model that handled more flow.

I will say I do like how quite it is, and the drop in power consumption is also nice.

 

[rmchoi]

I have a Vectra L1. I switched to this from a reeflo dart hybrid. Honestly I am not impressed with the GPH/ strength of the pump. I wish they made another model that handled more flow.

I will say I do like how quite it is, and the drop in power consumption is also nice.

I can see why you would experience a drop in flow going from Reeflo Dart to the Vectra L1. The Reflo has a higher flow rating and its a pressure pump. The Vectra worked well for me because my system has 125G of water. Even with the head loss and extra plumbing, there was GPH to spare.

 

[dangros]

How do these compare to each other with respect to heat? Would a the vectra run hotter than the jebao DC 12000?

 

[TaylorPilot]

@dangros I would try to find power curves related to head pressure. Then compare the two at your estimated head. Which ever is drawing more wattage will produce more heat. This works especially well if you are using them submerged. If they are external their might be a little drop in heat transfer, but not much. Really all you need to know is how many watts the pump consumes. Although not a zero head, you need to know how much they burn at your specific head. Pumps consume less electricity when they are running at higher heads. I know it sounds backwards, but it is true.

What some people don't understand is that it isn't just the heat from the motor block that adds heat to the water. Every tiny bit of water movement in the pipes and the display is turned into friction heat from the water running into each other. The only energy that would escape is in the form of sound making its way out of the tank, but this would be fractions of a single watt, and not worth discussing. Let's say you had a submerged 120 watt pump that was 100% efficient, meaning that turned every watt of electricity into water movement, and was completely silent, it woulds till put 120 watts of heat back into the water.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Another interesting point would be Ecotech power heads. Now don't get me wrong, I like the Ecotech powerheads. I own 2 of them. One of the reasons they tout moving the motor block out of the water is to keep heat out of the system. Their website states that the MP40QD uses up to 28 watts total. Now, lets assume that the magnetic coupling is 100% efficient, then lets assume that the motor block is 80% efficient. Although based on their good quality, I would imagine it is higher than that. At 80% less than 6 watts of power is converted to motor heat. 6 watts is nothing! Unless it is a very small aquarium, you probably wouldn't notice any difference at all with putting that motor block in the water.

 

[dangros]

Makes sense but I don't trust the published jebao power curves. Maybe I'm too cynical . The 12000 doesn't put out enough heat in my tank to matter so anything less (heat-wise) would suffice. Heat was one of the concerns mentioned on other threads for the vectras. Just as the OP, I'm interested in quality and quietness but not at the cost of heat.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Yea, I don't know if that is information you can actually get. Reeflo I think is the only one I have seen that posts configurations for all head/flow/wattage. Most only do head/flow and list max wattage consumption. For the high flow/low pressure pumps, that number is their best performance numbers. It makes the higher head pumps look like they can't compete. It really depends on your application. For a closed loop, I would definitely use one. But if you have a decent amount of head, or want to feed a manifold, any efficiency advantages start to go away. I think that any of the DC pumps in the same power category are going to produce about the same amount of heat. I would be worried about reliability and noise than anything.

 

[TaylorPilot]

To me the ultimate would be an external DC pump that is magnetically coupled like an Iwaki, but with a large heatsink and silent electric fan. Try pulling the fan off the back of an Iwaki for a minute and they get allot quieter. If they can make silent computers heatsinks that can pull 150 watts of heat out of a chip the size of a postage stamp, 15-20 watts out of a large motor block should be super easy. There was even a thread a decade ago where people were doing that with panworld pumps. They made them almost silent and kept the motor block heat out of the water. You wouldn't have to worry about the impeller magnets swelling like you do on a submersible pump, or the seals leaking like you do on a reeflo. Maybe I should manufacture one! LOL.

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

I have a Vectra L1 and like it a lot and has tons of controllability for the price point. Royal exclusive has great build quality but the price point is much higher. Abyzz also has great build quality and has a 10 year warranty (the expected lifespan of the pump per manufacturer) but costs a lot. 2K+ on a single pump is significant and they aren't bullet proof at that price. If budget is no object then it's Abyzz all the way.

 

[dangros]

Mr saltwater did a stress test on the vectra. Look it up. I realize it's a sample size of 1 but I'm sold on their reliability. It was rather intense. Pardon me if I'm hijacking but in my case it's only 90g + a 40B sump. 100 or so gallons, I suppose. There's no room for anything externally and it's in the living room on a hard wooden floor. I hear and feel every vibration. Hate it. Also, it's cramped in the sump so a small size helps. I can't justify 1k on a 90g. The red dragon mini 80 may be it from what you guys are saying unless the heat from the vectras is ok. Then it's difficult to beat the "value". The vertex is too small IMO.

 

[Acrononomus]

I'm thinking of adding 2 of the eco Tec pumps on my system, I currently run to barracuda/reflow pumps, one for a return and one for a closed loop, my main concern is the decibel level, so to the ppl that have switched from a reef flow to the Eco tech was it like night and day decibel difference ?

 

[mfinn]

Vertex has a new DC Pump coming as well. It should be a nice addition to the high end market.

Have any details?
More or less flow than the Vectra current line?

 

[TheRealDmorty217]

I had a hammerhead on a Closed Loop on my 220g and it's like a 747 taking off compared to the Vectra which is silent

 

[ksed]

Taylor,
One way to eliminate magnets from swelling it to use ferrite magnets instead of neodymium.
I was told by a reputable source who has tested some of these high end DC pumps with Reeflo. He used all high end equipment to measure flow and head pressure. These DC pump were no more efficient than Reeflo's. A lot of the values were overstated .

To me the ultimate would be an external DC pump that is magnetically coupled like an Iwaki, but with a large heatsink and silent electric fan. Try pulling the fan off the back of an Iwaki for a minute and they get allot quieter. If they can make silent computers heatsinks that can pull 150 watts of heat out of a chip the size of a postage stamp, 15-20 watts out of a large motor block should be super easy. There was even a thread a decade ago where people were doing that with panworld pumps. They made them almost silent and kept the motor block heat out of the water. You wouldn't have to worry about the impeller magnets swelling like you do on a submersible pump, or the seals leaking like you do on a reeflo. Maybe I should manufacture one! LOL.

 

[TaylorPilot]

Yea, if you look at the flow charts, the numbers start to fall of fairly quick. Once you get to the head pressures we deal with in return pumps, they aren't really any better. My biggest gripe with the reeflo's are the seals. If they made a magnetically coupled model (probably wouldn't be too hard), then they would have a very very nice product. That is why the Iwaki pumps last forever, but they weren't designed for the hobby. Noise wasn't a high priority, so they run at higher RPM, making allot of fan noise.

 

[ksed]

Yes! Provided the flow charts are accurate.
Seals are also problematic with Reeflo's but there is someone out there that removes the seals from them "new" and puts his own in, guaranteed to last 10 years. Mechanically sealed pumps are very commonly used in the petroleum industry. Usually in very large applications. Nothing wrong with them and actually very efficient motors but installation of the seal and the type used is very critical.
Mechanically sealed pump go up north of 4000hp. Magnetically couple and canned pumps go up to max of 700hp.
The pumps used in this hobby are considered canned pumps.
Nice to find someone that knows about pumps. LOL

 

[TaylorPilot]

Someone out there?! You have a name or number?