DC Pumps: Ecotech vs. Royal Exclusiv vs. Abyzz

[michaelrc51]

Can you do that with vectra controller? to me add another controller is just another risk of failure. I would just eliminate as much single point of failure as possible.

Probably, but then you have 2 seperate control system, doesn't make sense to me since I spent all this money on a control system that works with a lot of Ecotech stuff already.....

I sold mine, moved onto a better pump that has Apex interface.

Also, lot of people unhappy with Ecotech's software/system controls.

 

[JBNY]

This is a great thread. I have been toying with swapping out my pump to a DC one for about 6 months but really struggling to find the best way to do it and save some electricity over what I am currently using.

My main pump for the last 12-13 years has been a Sequence 6000Seq23. Puts out 3600GPH at 16' head pressure using about 370 watts. I use it for my basement return to my DT one floor above (about 17' Head Pressure total including plumbing), plus it runs a huge Beckett skimmer, my chiller, and an ARID algae reactor. I had the pump rebuilt buy MDM about 9 years ago due to a bad bearing, but it has been flawless since. But I am getting near the ten year mark without problems and I know it is only a matter of time before something goes wrong.

For me I would love to break this into two pumps, one for the return and one for everything else, but it looks like the DC pumps don't really work well with HP. All I really need is about 500-700 GPH at the DT. Then another pump could be used for the others but they still seem to not do well with HP so now maybe I would need three pumps. ugh.

 

[NeverlosT]

JBNY, the bad news is that with a lot of Head Pressure you will probably want to go with an Abyzz, which is a great pump, but costs an arm and a leg (but it has a 10 year warranty...). You could definitely get the flow you want with that Abyzz. Think of it as an investment?

Redundancy among pumps is not something easily programmed. If you are running two return pumps, then you will likely need to shut off the plumbing to the bad pump and allow the good one to take the load.

I plan to run two Vecras and have them ramp up and down from 100% to 50%, so when one of the returns (with its own 1" line to the tank) is at 100% then the other (which has another 1" return line to the other side of the tank) is at 50%, and then they switch about once an hour, so mine wouldnt shut off really ever. Then when I want to feed, they will both cut to 50%. If one fails, then the other will just be shifted to run at 100% full time until I get the second fixed.

With this I hope to get a sort of "alternating current" in the tank, possibly reinforced with some powerheads.

Then again, I have been reading some threads with closed loops and ocean motions lately, a CL with a vectra L1 could also move a lot of water, perhaps then I just need one full time return pump and one CL pump. Decisions decisions...

If the Royal Exclusiv pumps costed the same, then I'd certainly consider those, but I just cant quantify the reason to spend more on the RD3 80w (which is why I started this thread).

 

[JBNY]

Yeah, it seems that for people with basement sumps these DC pumps are not the best option. I now use powerheads like the gyres for in tank flow, the pump is now only for getting water into and out of the DT so it can be skimmed, heated, cooled etc.

 

[Hans24hrs]

I'm thinking of adding 2 of the eco Tec pumps on my system, I currently run to barracuda/reflow pumps, one for a return and one for a closed loop, my main concern is the decibel level, so to the ppl that have switched from a reef flow to the Eco tech was it like night and day decibel difference ?

It was a major difference in sound for me. One of the reasons I liked the Vectra L1. I just wish/hope they come out with a larger model. Also I like the fact that it can be used internal or external. Most of my pumps have been external, but I prefer an internal pump (less chance of leaks ruining the floors lol)

 

[TylerS]

Please elaborate!

I also would like to know what you mean, please elaborate. All of the info that I posted to start the thread is right from either the pump maker or marine depot's websites, so that is not subjective info, those are facts from the manufacturers.

I welcome more info with regard to heat, efficiency, and such, but most of the info in this thread is comprised of people commenting on first hand experience, which as usual, should be appreciated, balanced against others opinions, and taken with a small grain of salt.

My takeaways thus far from the thread are:
1. If money is no object, go Abyzz
2. If value is your thing, go Vectra. (Royal Exclusiv kind of winds up in the middle.
3. If you don't care about noise or vibration, get an external AC pump, if you need a quiet pump and are ok with a bit of heat, go DC.
4. Efficiency should be considered a measure of watts consumed vs. water moved. Nothing more.
5. The DC pumps will heat the water some whether they are submerged or external due to their circulating water around the impeller magnet.

Sorry I somehow missed those replies. Normally I would have elaborated but I didn't have the time when I made the post.
@NeverlosT I didn't have an issue with anything you've said.

My alarm bells started going off with some of the discussions on efficiency where people were trying to generalize all AC pumps or all DC pumps into being better or worse at things. @TaylorPilot had some comments which were right on the mark.

You need to compare them at your given head pressure/wattage/GPH, and I think they will be allot closer than you think. There is no such thing as a free lunch. The type of motor is allot less important than the quality of the motor when talking about efficiency.

I'm really disappointed in how few manufactures provide the full power vs head pressure vs flow data though.

I was told by a reputable source who has tested some of these high end DC pumps with Reeflo. He used all high end equipment to measure flow and head pressure. These DC pump were no more efficient than Reeflo's. A lot of the values were overstated .

I always get suspicious when I see info like this posted. That sounds like a good topic for an advanced aquarist article. Maybe similar to the one they did on powerhead flow rate claims in the past. @ksed would you be willing to send the test details and results to them as an article suggestion (or to me since I'd be really interested in it?).

Overall, I agree that removing failure points is a good idea, but the mean time between failures matters just as much as number of failure points @gcarroll. Also the abyzz has to get DC power somehow (it's a DC pump), so your comparison of number of failure points is off a bit. It still has to take the wall power (110V AC) and convert it to 200V DC which the A200 uses, which is basically the same thing as taking wall power and converting it to 24V DC or whatever voltage the other pumps use. Where that conversion takes place (in a separate device or integrated into the pump or controller) doesn't really matter. In reality you're just adding the apex power supply and controller as points of failure and it seems like they have low mean time between failures. In most cases with mechanical devices like pumps the pumps mean time between failure is significantly lower and basically sets the overall system mean time between failure.

 

[ksed]

I wish I had data but unfortunately I don't. This definitely would be an interesting test to do.
The Abyzz pump 100w which is 12 v has a 82% efficiency rating while the 200w which operates on high voltage has 94% efficiency rating. After speaking with the rep at Abyzz he said the difference in efficiency has strictly to do with the voltage drop.

 

[cmac330]

Some things I considered when picking a pump for my new tank having had experience with Red Dragon speedy pumps and vectra pumps:

1) I don't use return pumps much for flow in my tank, powerheads have advanced to the point that it is not necessary. I understand that many run closed loop for aesthetics but this was not the route I went. I run a powerhead in my sumps to avoid detritus build up, and because my sump was a custom with a frag/refugium section built in. I am plenty happy if the water volume of my tank flows through my sump at least 5 times an hour, at this rate tests of my tank and sump water remain identical so what would be the point of more? It would likely remain the same at far less but I still like to keep my plumbing quiet and this number seems to work.
2) DC pumps allow me to choose a flow rate which best accommodates my plumbing and coral placement, I just want as much control as possible.
3) DC pumps are quiet. This and the above point are the reason only DC were considered.
4) I routinely maintenance my pumps, pump failure has never been an issue for me other than magnetic pumps wearing out over time. When it comes to equipment I factor in price but I always use a minimum quality standard first.
5) Never saw a reason to need control flow rate of my return pump via apex (on/off is obviously nice)
6) How hard is it to replace the pump or parts on off chance of failure. Guarantees on pumps are great but only cover the pump itself, as such they don't mean much to me their cost of replacement and parts is usually covered in the price anyways, not to mention they only cover build defects which are almost always apparent within the first 12 months which most manufacturers have. Even with guarantees/warranties replacement time still factors in.

Probably the most significant factor when I made my choice was what happened with a local guys system. His Red Dragon control box was mounted under the tank and a clog in the grate of his overflow box forced water over the sides of his tank. Before his leak detect caught the issue and shut things down water had seeped into the box and fried the electrical. Obviously this was not Royal Exclusiv's issue and I put no blame on them for this. What was troubling for me was that the control box could not be replaced individually and contact between him and Royal Exclusiv took some time just to figure out that he would nee a whole new pump. Eventually he was able to pay a portion of the cost and send the pump back for a replacement. The customer service was good but the whole ordeal took a couple months to sort out. I believe that recently has bumped up their service capability stateside but this still factored heavily for me.

In the end I went with two vectra M1 over the Red Dragon 3 Speedy 80W for the same cost. Reasons:
1) Customer service is decent plus having two I can swap out if I am waiting on parts or replacement, which is relatively quick with Ecotech as a US based company. Obviously I could buy two of any pump but here cost made it just too easy to do.
2) I have run vortechs for years and while the wetsides do burn out I attribute most of this to the unique design compared to market place competitors. As such I am comfortable with their ability to manufacture quality products. This is further backed by the quality of their radion fixtures which are a dominant force in the LED market. Simply put, I don't feel as though they "under-manufacture" their products and they have a reputation both to uphold and that has proven over time. (obviously Royal Exclusiv has this as well, I am merely pointing out this isn't really a weakness for the Vectra)
3) Easy to swap in and out the pumps because of the fitting design (again this also counts for Royal Exclusiv)
4) Battery backup, pretty self explanatory here

It boils down to the fact for me that it meets all my demands and came in at half the cost. I have no concerns that this product will last me at least 5 years at which point who knows what will be available.

 

[alton]

I went with the M1 because my LFS carries it. I do this with most expensive items that have MAP pricing, that way when something goes wrong I take it back to my LFS and he gets the problem fixed. In saying that I had a problem right off the bat, the controller board was bad. So I contacted Ecotech which they called me first thing Monday Morning, but my LFS was on top of it and had the board shipped to him and fixed my controller by Wednesday. The pump works great and is quiet to the point I don't know it is running.

 

[NeverlosT]

I have chosen to go the Vectra L1 route. I will have one of them on my 150, and when we upgrade to the 300, we will have two L1 return pumps and one L1 closed loop.

If money was no object, I may have chosen the RD3, but alas, it is!

 

[Phenomanul]

Yeah, but that can cause some start up issues. And there have been a few issues with start ups on the Vectra's. Not saying these are the Vectra's fault or not but there have been a few issues.

I think I speak for others when I say I want the Apex control so I can speed up or slow down pumps, not just shut an outlet off and turn it back on.
In my case, which I have stated a few times, I want the Apex to run my pumps at a desired speed and then I will have it ramp up one pump if one were to go down. Trying to create redundancy.

If you place a backup battery on the Vectra L1 when power is off (i.e. when the APEX powers off the pump's outlet for feeding) the pump battery kicks in which places it in low flow mode. So technically APEX can still be used to control feed mode while allowing for a slowed down pump when the backup battery kicks in.

The downside to this strategy is that it would demand frequent cycling of the backup battery which would decrease it's efficiency.

 

[NeverlosT]

Thus far, the Vectra L1 has been pretty outstanding. Extremely quiet, running cool externally, and very powerful. It seems significantly more powerful than my reeflo darts were.

I got the correct plumbing fittings to not use their proprietary parts (BSPP threaded conversions to 2" and 1.5" PVC).

So far very satisfied. I have not tried a reeflink or the advanced functionality yet, but I have no doubt at all that two Vectra :1's will be PLENTY for my planned 300g system, I''' probably have them return water at opposite ends and alternate flow.

One thing I did notice is that the pump will get noisier if you restrict its output and it has to push against pressure. My return is an open 1" line at the moment, but I put a 1" eductor on there and it did make the pump noise increase noticeably.

 

[michaelrc51]

If you place a backup battery on the Vectra L1 when power is off (i.e. when the APEX powers off the pump's outlet for feeding) the pump battery kicks in which places it in low flow mode. So technically APEX can still be used to control feed mode while allowing for a slowed down pump when the backup battery kicks in.

The downside to this strategy is that it would demand frequent cycling of the backup battery which would decrease it's efficiency.

This might be possible if the Vectra pumps actually worked with the backup battery pack that they are advertised to......

Either way I wouldn't do that. The pump was said to do certain things that it doesn't and that is why I went with a different pump.
Going forward, I will now think hard before purchasing Ecotech products. I am not a big fan of companies that do this.

 

[NeverlosT]

Do any of the other big DC pumps (RD3, Abyzz, etc) have battery backups?

 

[michaelrc51]

Do any of the other big DC pumps (RD3, Abyzz, etc) have battery backups?

Not that I know of.
But you can use a UPS for anything.

The Vectra pumps require another piece to use the battery backup, which isn't available.

 

[NeverlosT]

So it sounds like the vectra (though it was an oversight by EcoTech to not just give away that adapter to work with the battery backup) at worst just falls to the backup functionality of the rest of the group.

For what it is worth, I still consider the vectra to be the best value. Being able to calibrate it, and have flow profiles, at that price point, with that power, is a tough combination to beat. The RD3 and Abyzz are amazing, but I just don't see the value at those pricepoints.

 

[michaelrc51]

Except no Apex control.....

 

[TaylorPilot]

https://reefbuilders.com/2016/05/12/sicce-syncra-sdc-pump/

A new kid on the block! I am ready for the specs! Their products of recent have been top notch.

 

[NeverlosT]

That sicce is pretty sweet! I don't think they are making them big enough for returns though or are they? I will say this, I'd gladly buy one of those new PSKs for a skimmer!

 

[abinder]

Not that I know of.
But you can use a UPS for anything.

The Vectra pumps require another piece to use the battery backup, which isn't available.

Why do you say that?

Places are advertising that they have them in stock.
https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/v...tech-marine/?gclid=CK-SsIy64MwCFZNafgodcNcJ5w