Deep Sand Beds still a thing?

[boacvh]

I think the time bomb stuff is over stated. But yeah, if you can isolate when removing anerobic stuff, you should.

Thanks, good to know. Keeping close eye (and nose) on it now

 

[fish farmer]

Deep sand beds have use, but there are aspects to consider:

All this is based on using sand with grain size between 2-5mm....

The first 0.5 inches of sand has aerobic autotrophs that convert ammonia to nitrate ultimately.
The next 0.5 inches or so has facultative anaerobic heterotrophs that can reduce some of the nitrate in to gaseous nitrogen. The remaining depth is filled with obligate heterotrophs that reduce nitrate to ammonium, then back to nitrate, back to ammonium and so on. Some of the nitrate can leach back into the water column and this becomes more so if disturbed by sand sift critters. This is why sand sometimes get the term nutrient sink or cat litter box. This process stops at ammonium and gets stuck there because the bottom of the tank doesn't allow any further conversion.

Sand grain size between 2 and 5 millimeters.....that seems pretty coarse from what I understand. Back in the day a plenum system was 2 mm sized grains, while a DSB was much finer, oolitic sand, unrinsed...you need the fine grains since you are basically setting up a mud flat type habitat where the micro fauna do the work...worms, pods, micro startfish, etc, etc. No sand sifting gobies or other big stirrers that eventually eat all the little things that do the work of a DSB. YMMV depending on how small your bed is.....I always heard bigger is better. Also periodic replenishment of micro fauna is recommended as well.

 

[Dragon52]

I have one in my tank because I have a Yellowhead Jawfish & Wheelers Gobies.

 

[Baurochs]

I have a DSB mainly because I like the ecosystem/interactions with it. Really no problems, if anything it's thriving considering I don't put that much work into it (bad habit I need to change though). It's only been up for about 6 months now though.

 

[salty joe]

I have a DSB because I'm gonna have sifting gobies and jawfish, as well as wrasses that like to bury themselves. And I really like the look. My approach is to thoroughly stir 1/4 of the DSB weekly so the time bomb thing can't happen. I've been lazy and skipped a couple weeks in a row and it's not been a problem. As far as nitrate reduction is concerned, I'm counting on my algae filter.

 

[av8]

Are they still practicable? I was thinking about throwing one in my sump.

Do you have a DSB?

Is it worth placing one in the sump?

Right now I just run cheato- thinking of moving that to a reactor.

I've been running a DSB, specifically a Jaubert system, forever. My ocellaris clown is 29 years old, so I'll offer that as evidence as to whether it works or not. My nitrates & nitrites are always zero. Phosphates are very low, difficult to measure, as I also run an algae scrubber. I also run a skimmer. And have a refugium. Cyno is the one thing I still struggle with.
I do vacuum out the top 1 cm or so of sand once or twice a year, and replace it with sand that has been cleaned and dried. The trick is to have more sand than you use in the tank. Same way with rocks. When a rock gets ugly, I remove it, and replace it with one that has been "cleaned." Cleaning means that the rock spends 6 months on the peak of my roof, enjoying the sunshine and rain. Then back into the tank. Let nature do the work for you ... not chemicals.

 

[Baurochs]

I've been running a DSB, specifically a Jaubert system, forever. My ocellaris clown is 29 years old, so I'll offer that as evidence as to whether it works or not. My nitrates & nitrites are always zero. Phosphates are very low, difficult to measure, as I also run an algae scrubber. I also run a skimmer. And have a refugium. Cyno is the one thing I still struggle with.
I do vacuum out the top 1 cm or so of sand once or twice a year, and replace it with sand that has been cleaned and dried. The trick is to have more sand than you use in the tank. Same way with rocks. When a rock gets ugly, I remove it, and replace it with one that has been "cleaned." Cleaning means that the rock spends 6 months on the peak of my roof, enjoying the sunshine and rain. Then back into the tank. Let nature do the work for you ... not chemicals.

What do you think of sand sifters, or stuff that cleans that surface bit of sand? Still better to replace surface sand? I've been going back and forth about sand critters myself, I wasn't sure if someone like you would have some insight lol

 

[av8]

My best sand sifters are probably bristle worms. Ive never had luck with critters that I introduced to stir the sand bed.

 

[Phildago]

Are they still practicable? I was thinking about throwing one in my sump.

Do you have a DSB?

Is it worth placing one in the sump?

Right now I just run cheato- thinking of moving that to a reactor.

Ive got one in my sump. Idk how much it does, but it's there and life's good

 

[brandon429]

Re-aquascaping nightmare!!!!!! Nearly killed all my fish!!!!!

Did you smell rotten eggs? Sincerely Lasse

www.reef2reef.com

That’s how sandbeds can kill a tank.

This below is merely what it takes to run a no tank loss access thread, name your reason for access we handle it all with the same steps.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

Now we can see both sides of the coin, using other people’s aquarium outcomes.

 

[Baurochs]

My best sand sifters are probably bristle worms. Ive never had luck with critters that I introduced to stir the sand bed.

I recently got a tiger conch for it, he's pretty slow paced though. I've also been looking at brittle/serpent stars. How did you get bristle worms? I've been looking and it feels like they only exist on the internet... No one has them or offers them.

 

[JoshH]

I've been running a DSB, specifically a Jaubert system, forever. My ocellaris clown is 29 years old, so I'll offer that as evidence as to whether it works or not. My nitrates & nitrites are always zero. Phosphates are very low, difficult to measure, as I also run an algae scrubber. I also run a skimmer. And have a refugium. Cyno is the one thing I still struggle with.
I do vacuum out the top 1 cm or so of sand once or twice a year, and replace it with sand that has been cleaned and dried. The trick is to have more sand than you use in the tank. Same way with rocks. When a rock gets ugly, I remove it, and replace it with one that has been "cleaned." Cleaning means that the rock spends 6 months on the peak of my roof, enjoying the sunshine and rain. Then back into the tank. Let nature do the work for you ... not chemicals.

The Jaubert system uses a plenum correct? What type of sand and how deep is it?

 

[Hot2na]

my Jaubert system has 5" of carib sea florida crushed coral over a 1" pvc pipe plenum..the top 1" is special grade reef sand..
I'm keeping gigantea anemone, magnifica.& rbta ..all growing and thriving in the zero nitrate environment.

 

[schooncw]

Read this. http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-06/rs/feature/index.php

 

[tony'stank]

I ran a DSB in a previous tank for ten years with only great results. I fed heavily and never had any significant nitrates without a refugium on sulphuric denitrifire. When I broke down the tank there was no Hydrogen sulfide. I now run a small DSB in my refugium.

 

[tony'stank]

When I talked to Dr Jean Jaubert at the 2018 MACNA he said his. Research still supports the use of a DSB. He does not recommend using a plenum. The only reason he ever had a plenum was that there was an existing undergravel filter in the tank he switched to DSB

 

[Malifry97]

Love this idea, what are everyone's thoughts on running a removable section of sump with a DSB essentially a remote DSB? Once it's a cause for concern it can be "Taken offline" and cleaned out without harming the rest of the system. Are they worth running this way?

I saw this once on a random person on youtube. He used one of the three drawer sterilite organizers and modified it, it was pretty cool.

 

[brandon429]

I think our sand rinse thread shows that out of 100 DSB attempts, following the rules exactly as passed down thirty years, 68 show up wanting it surgically removed due to constant problems and never go back.


dsb= higher chance you’ll seek removal of it safely after two years than it will work like the articles say. Sorry for skepticism it’s data based tho, dsb as untouched zone of reduction is on the way out.
im aware 32pct will always love them

i never recommend new tankers use them, we show them the sr thread and they opt out of a near certain cyano takeover ahead of time

i use dsb ironically. 6” deep. But it’s clean, so it’s not a liability. Sand grains are no harm, it’s the mud in between

if we need proof that sandbeds are/are not a risk, all that’s needed to test the claim is someone starting up a house move thread where you -don’t- rinse the DT bed. By page five, anger from your posters regarding a few total wipeouts.

*in power outage prone areas, a DSB is the worst design you can have, it’ll sap oxygen fast away from your fish. It’s a massive oxygen sink for biological oxygen demand and should not be used in areas of expected outage, no mention of this in articles I'm seeing as a reference

sandbed article paints a rosy picture of ideals

sandbed thread is real world outcomes

Two zones emerge in the hobby: articles vs accountability work threads.

There's a reason article writers don't take on problematic dsb's for repair in live time threads with noncompliant tanks

Why do dsb articles never sample from actual people's tanks? Because referencing what the ocean does is safe. Reflecting on their own mastery, safe.

Live time post accountability puts dsb claims in the right perspective, it's rare to master them into functionality. Rosy on paper, a liability IRL for every year of storage.

A bell curve exists, and we get only the upside reports in articles. This makes me enjoy work threads for their reality.

 

[tony'stank]

In ten years of using. DSB I have never experienced a H2S bomb. I think that this is one of the unproven myths of reefkeeping. Until I had to take the tank down I never saw any practical reason for disturbing the deeper layers of the sand bed. When I finally had to dissasemble the tank I was amazed at the amount of life (worms etc) in the deeper layers. There was absolutely nomH2S smell at all.

 

[JoshH]

In ten years of using. DSB I have never experienced a H2S bomb. I think that this is one of the unproven myths of reefkeeping. Until I had to take the tank down I never saw any practical reason for disturbing the deeper layers of the sand bed. When I finally had to dissasemble the tank I was amazed at the amount of life (worms etc) in the deeper layers. There was absolutely nomH2S smell at all.

I think that is the key to preventing the H2S having lifeforms that will slowly turn the sandbed at each level and prevent the gas from building up in the first place. Atleast that's what I'm gathering from what I've read so far