Deep sand beds. Who still uses them?

Future build

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My "experimental" 20 gal is breaking my own rules (very little live rock.) I'm making it as a 'proof of concept' for large scale BTA propagation and it is geared solely for that purpose. I'm throwing out the live rubble I'm using for seeding the sand because I don't want anemones hooking up on the rubble. I can't share the pics, because I'm trying something that's a trade secret. I can take pix of the side of the DSB as it develops, but from the surface up, I can't. Secret stuff lol
 
My "experimental" 20 gal is breaking my own rules (very little live rock.) I'm making it as a 'proof of concept' for large scale BTA propagation and it is geared solely for that purpose. I'm throwing out the live rubble I'm using for seeding the sand because I don't want anemones hooking up on the rubble. I can't share the pics, because I'm trying something that's a trade secret. I can take pix of the side of the DSB as it develops, but from the surface up, I can't. Secret stuff lol
Completely understand. Thank you I would very much appreciate pictures of the side of the DSB as it develops or any other advice you may have regarding the establishment of a BSB
 
I also am not using oolite, which may be a fatal flaw. It's a production issue that I'm trying as a workaround. We'll see if it works. My expectation is that I may have to try something different in 8 weeks, we'll see.
 
I'm just returning to the hobby after a very long hiatus, but I had a very happy and very successful 5-year-old 55-gallon and a 6.5-year-old 120-gallon display tank with deep sand beds, from 1987-98 (started saltwater in 1986, after almost 15 years of FW.) The reef world has evolved drastically since then, mostly for good, but I disagree with the move away from deep sand beds.

I'm a huge proponent of keeping as diverse an ecosystem in my tank as possible, including a DSB, live rock, microalgae, and a purposeful fish and coral selection. I'm more conscious of environmental impacts now, so I wouldn't pick up Fiji live rock at the airport, even if that were possible. The cultured live rock they're making in the ocean in Florida looks pretty awesome anyhow. IMO, you won't ever have as successful DSB without quality live rock with lots of critters in it.

My DSBs always had 3-4 inches of oolite with about 2 inches of aragonite on top. I had already been 7 years into saltwater, so I had the patience (and bad memories) to let the 120 tank DSB establish itself with an extended 8-week, 4-stage nitrogen cycle until the bed had a good anaerobic bacteria layer that was converting nitrates to nitrogen gas before I began adding livestock. That's excepting the sand crew, which (excluding live rock hitchhikers) I added at 4 weeks. I've always used lab-grade ammonia to cycle tanks, cruelty-free. That's easier to deal with now that Dr. Tim's is around; I used to have to go to a chemical distributor.

When I started my 120, I had another DSB in my old 55g converted aquarium-turned-sump/refugium (kind of primitive by today's standards and homemade, just one glued-in divider with my skimmer, 2 heaters and a return pump on one side (1/3) and the input and DSB (2/3) on the other) that only had (after nitrate showed) a diverse macroalgae farm of gracilaria, chaeto, several caulerpa types, and dragon's breath in it as pod habitat to feed my future blennies and mandarin, as well as for overall water and tank health. I don't know what the big variety of macroalgae did, only that I wanted whatever it contributed to the ocean to be in my ecosystem too, and my tank looked awesome and was remarkably stable, so I guess it worked. The macroalgae barely grew after the DSB fully cycled, and I rarely clipped it, maybe every two months, indicating that the DSB was doing its thing and exporting converted nitrates as nitrogen gas.

I landscaped the display with calcified macroalgae about 4 weeks into the cycle, and began light kalkwasser dosing, and used live phytoplankton and daily light feedings to encourage pods, critters, and my live rock to establish a very strong ecosystem. By the time I added livestock, pods were everywhere.

After around 8-9 weeks, I added a BTA and a couple of percula to start, then added a coral or fish every week until the tank was populated. I added bacteria for a couple of days every time I added livestock, to negate the added load until the system adjusted, which wasn't long, maybe 3 days.

My matured system was heavily-fed and nutrient-heavy and all I can say is that a DSB provided nitrate export without creating a giant glob of macroalgae collecting garbage in my refugium. In fact, my refugium was sparkling clean compared to most. Because I had enormous sand crews, including bristle worms, nassarius snails, conchs, brittle stars, a couple of sand-sifting gobies, plus whatever the live rock brought in, there was never any detritus, and my 120 was 6 1/2 years old when I tore it down. DSBs never once let me down, and the sand bed was every bit as healthy at 6 years, as it was at 6 months IMO.

With the exception of chasing a mantis shrimp that snuck in as a baby on my rocks, I never, ever disturbed my sand bed. When I did disturb it chasing that ****ing mantis around, it released absolutely zero waste into my tank and was as clean-looking on the surface (after cycling) as it was fresh-washed. It was so full of life, it had its own entertainment value and drama; the surface erupted with critters at feeding time. It was cool af.

It's my opinion (take it or not) that failed DSBs are due to impatience or lack of biological completeness. It's extremely important to allow it to become fully established undisturbed and to not vacuum your bed, ever, under any circumstances; a proper DSB cleanup crew does that for you. Vacuuming a DSB draws water through the anaerobic layer deep in the bed and the oxygen kills the anaerobic bacteria, disrupting it for weeks. You may have to experience a few weeks of serious ugly but resist vacuuming diatoms and stuff like that; they're natural and there for a reason. Rely wholly on your crew to take care of sand maintenance.

I think that tanks are more stable and have better overall health with a DSB, but mine's just one opinion. I have no desire for a bare-bottomed tank, ever. I'm setting up a small, 20g to experiment and play with (today!), and you bet it's gonna have a deep sand bed. I think millions of years of evolution trumps everything, but I'm obviously just an old-school old man.



With a DSB, you are screwed if the power is out for awhile. You have to have a really good back up. It isn't that DSB can not be successful, its that for most reefers they will crash from high phosphates usually around the 1.5 to 2 year mark. There is only so much phosphates a DSB can hold before leaching back forever. The cost of hermits and snails adds up. I put nori in my tank to feed my snails and hermits, rather then having them save me from green hair algae.
 
I set my DSB system up back in 2003. It was about 4-5" deep then. It is still running fine except the sand is down to about 3-4" of depth now. I do add baggies of sand from time to time when I go on scuba dives (for biodiversity).

I have had bouts of GHA, green slime, red slime, etc when nutrients get out of balance. System holds massive acro colonies, LPS and a few tangs. DT is a 135 Oceanic and is plumbed through a common sump with a DIY barebottom 50 Gal Frag Tank. I used MH / T5 until about 2015. Now the DT is SB Reeflights and T5 while the Frag Tank is MH and t5.

I do have a DIY protein skimmer, a 20 gal sump 1/2-full of chaeto and you can see the live rock volume in the picks. I so vacuum the sand now 1x / week (5 minutes) or use a stick to really stir it up deeply. Not much "dust" comes up any more when I do that. NO3 runs about 0.25-0.5ppm (Red Sea Pro) and PO4 runs about 20-60 ppb-PO4 [0.020 - 0.050 ppm PO4]. I currently change about 4 gallons (200 gal system, so 2%) each week with TMProReef. But I've gone months without water changes.

Not sure if a DSB is a game changer from stability after 1st year, but I much rather see my DT looking like a natural part of a reef instead of a swimming pool with rocks and fish in it. Some prefer that super clean look of Bare Bottom. I do appreciate the visual cues that BB afford in my new Frag System. I can easily tell when and where I need to siphon.

Frag Tank.jpg DT1.jpg DT2.jpg
 
I set my DSB system up back in 2003. It was about 4-5" deep then. It is still running fine except the sand is down to about 3-4" of depth now. I do add baggies of sand from time to time when I go on scuba dives (for biodiversity).

I have had bouts of GHA, green slime, red slime, etc when nutrients get out of balance. System holds massive acro colonies, LPS and a few tangs. DT is a 135 Oceanic and is plumbed through a common sump with a DIY barebottom 50 Gal Frag Tank. I used MH / T5 until about 2015. Now the DT is SB Reeflights and T5 while the Frag Tank is MH and t5.

I do have a DIY protein skimmer, a 20 gal sump 1/2-full of chaeto and you can see the live rock volume in the picks. I so vacuum the sand now 1x / week (5 minutes) or use a stick to really stir it up deeply. Not much "dust" comes up any more when I do that. NO3 runs about 0.25-0.5ppm (Red Sea Pro) and PO4 runs about 20-60 ppb-PO4 [0.020 - 0.050 ppm PO4]. I currently change about 4 gallons (200 gal system, so 2%) each week with TMProReef. But I've gone months without water changes.

Not sure if a DSB is a game changer from stability after 1st year, but I much rather see my DT looking like a natural part of a reef instead of a swimming pool with rocks and fish in it. Some prefer that super clean look of Bare Bottom. I do appreciate the visual cues that BB afford in my new Frag System. I can easily tell when and where I need to siphon.

Frag Tank.jpg DT1.jpg DT2.jpg
Not all bare bottoms look like a frag rack!! Nice tank you have. I think the issue is with a DSB is that for those who do not do vacuum on a regular basis, they will find that they will get decent results the first year and then crashes months later as the nutrient sink fills up. I would consider going with a DSB, only if I had a huge protein skimmer, and a large algae reactor/scrubber, and great biodiversity. I don't vacuum, so that is the only way I would consider it.
 
I set my DSB system up back in 2003. It was about 4-5" deep then. It is still running fine except the sand is down to about 3-4" of depth now. I do add baggies of sand from time to time when I go on scuba dives (for biodiversity).

I have had bouts of GHA, green slime, red slime, etc when nutrients get out of balance. System holds massive acro colonies, LPS and a few tangs. DT is a 135 Oceanic and is plumbed through a common sump with a DIY barebottom 50 Gal Frag Tank. I used MH / T5 until about 2015. Now the DT is SB Reeflights and T5 while the Frag Tank is MH and t5.

I do have a DIY protein skimmer, a 20 gal sump 1/2-full of chaeto and you can see the live rock volume in the picks. I so vacuum the sand now 1x / week (5 minutes) or use a stick to really stir it up deeply. Not much "dust" comes up any more when I do that. NO3 runs about 0.25-0.5ppm (Red Sea Pro) and PO4 runs about 20-60 ppb-PO4 [0.020 - 0.050 ppm PO4]. I currently change about 4 gallons (200 gal system, so 2%) each week with TMProReef. But I've gone months without water changes.

Not sure if a DSB is a game changer from stability after 1st year, but I much rather see my DT looking like a natural part of a reef instead of a swimming pool with rocks and fish in it. Some prefer that super clean look of Bare Bottom. I do appreciate the visual cues that BB afford in my new Frag System. I can easily tell when and where I need to siphon.

Frag Tank.jpg DT1.jpg DT2.jpg
Impressive
 
this is my honest take on the matter: its the remote deep sand beds in buckets plumbed before the display that get the most consistency on performing the way you want

the ones up under tons of fish loading vary so much we have to do crazy stuff to make 40 out of 40 tanks behave. but those bucket remote ones are ideal/untouched, and not loaded with detritus every day 24x7

every entrant in our thread was an attempt of a classic performing dsb in a display tank, out of these thousands of posts I feel best stating the remote ones/slower input might really be doing true measurable denitrification. add a sandbed to a plumbed 5 gallon paint bucket done creatively/flow tank water across it to the display tank.

there are tanks that added sand in the classic way, stacked rocks and got low nitrates but its just not the majority. in dealing with patterns and more than one tank we see sandbeds are mainly detritus traps unless planned and balanced carefully.

*a large tank with a tiny fish load, and dsb in the display, meets arrangements as well but usually large tanks get swarms of fish and ride the bell curve hands off for years but one unlucky turn in that time + sandbed waste = all the work we're addressing.
Tell me more about buckets plumbed before,
l’ve been running a dsb for five years , havinf arrived at the idea of a remote dsb all on my own and now I read about 5 gallon buckets. Please do tell.

thanks in advance
 
this is the certain breakdown:

they're pre filtered of heavy detritus. they take an output from your tank that already had fish waste intercepted before running across the sands you keep in a plumbed five gallon depot bucket. they're more likely to run longer, more stable, doing what you want, not fueling 98% of all cyano problems posted on the internet.

can control sandbed depth, nobody is sure of the degree of sand needed for 20 of 20 tanks to exhibit verified denitrification; but with darn near two feet able for sand you can certainly find the degree it takes.

can make the flow across the sands slow, or fast, the direct tune for denitrification adjust.

if you buy extra pods and place them in here, its no direct predation. throw on macroalgae on top and give them a place to hide. the outcurrent carries juveniles as pelagic flow forever. in your display tank, the mandarins mow them down. find a way to not blender them on the way back into the tank

can experiment with plenums, layers, whatever, in a zone free from rock stack slides and power head dislodges
and diving wrasses.


easily unplumbed during a power outage, so 1 zillion heterotrophic aerobes dont sap all your 02 from fish


i have no idea how to actually plumb a bucket i myself reef in a fishbowl, who wants all the in out piping / not everyone
these r tricks to help large tankers, the fishbowlers have it already too easy.

the only reason my sandbed thread exists is because people do everything above in a display tank, under raining-down fish detritus and they ride the bell curve 36 mos before posting lol
 
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I’m running with 3” of crush coral. But I don’t mind vacuuming it’s not so bad , what’s everybody’s problem? Get a bucket and a vac , hold your thumb over the hose end just do it once a month even once every two months, so what . Sheesh
 
I set my DSB system up back in 2003. It was about 4-5" deep then. It is still running fine except the sand is down to about 3-4" of depth now. I do add baggies of sand from time to time when I go on scuba dives (for biodiversity).

I have had bouts of GHA, green slime, red slime, etc when nutrients get out of balance. System holds massive acro colonies, LPS and a few tangs. DT is a 135 Oceanic and is plumbed through a common sump with a DIY barebottom 50 Gal Frag Tank. I used MH / T5 until about 2015. Now the DT is SB Reeflights and T5 while the Frag Tank is MH and t5.

I do have a DIY protein skimmer, a 20 gal sump 1/2-full of chaeto and you can see the live rock volume in the picks. I so vacuum the sand now 1x / week (5 minutes) or use a stick to really stir it up deeply. Not much "dust" comes up any more when I do that. NO3 runs about 0.25-0.5ppm (Red Sea Pro) and PO4 runs about 20-60 ppb-PO4 [0.020 - 0.050 ppm PO4]. I currently change about 4 gallons (200 gal system, so 2%) each week with TMProReef. But I've gone months without water changes.

Not sure if a DSB is a game changer from stability after 1st year, but I much rather see my DT looking like a natural part of a reef instead of a swimming pool with rocks and fish in it. Some prefer that super clean look of Bare Bottom. I do appreciate the visual cues that BB afford in my new Frag System. I can easily tell when and where I need to siphon.

Frag Tank.jpg DT1.jpg DT2.jpg
Beautiful reef!
 

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