Denise's Halcyon Red Sea Reefer Protobuild 3/25/17

[HolisticBear]

What are your current thoughts on lighting? Just curious

 

[dmw913]

What are your current thoughts on lighting? Just curious

I've ramped up my Nanobox to basically as high as it will go in the right spectrum and increased the photoperiod. By doing that, the PAR is acceptable for right now. What I also found out is that I have a batch of salt with incredibly low Mg so that has been a water chemistry problem which I am correcting. Given that I am headed to MACNA shortly, I am going to stabilize water chemistry, take a wait and see approach and then research extensively at the conference.

 

[justingraham]

I've ramped up my Nanobox to basically as high as it will go in the right spectrum and increased the photoperiod. By doing that, the PAR is acceptable for right now. What I also found out is that I have a batch of salt with incredibly low Mg so that has been a water chemistry problem which I am correcting. Given that I am headed to MACNA shortly, I am going to stabilize water chemistry, take a wait and see approach and then research extensively at the conference.

Question what are u using to test for mg?

I don't test for it at all as I haven't found a kit I can reproduce the same results with.
I have also been told to not really worry about it

 

[dmw913]

@justingraham I'm using Red Sea Pro Mg test kit and have not had any difficulties with consistency. Additionally, it is my understanding Mg is crucial for proper calcification but is not used by corals at the same rate as Ca and alkalinity so folks don't pay attention to it quite as much. I consider it equally important and test for it at the same rate as Ca and dKH. By testing for it, I was able to ascertain my salt was very low in Mg and it needed to be corrected improving overall water chemistry/balance.

@tidalgardens and @Bulk Reef Supply both have very good videos on Mg which I would recommend reviewing.

 

[justingraham]

@justingraham I'm using Red Sea Pro Mg test kit and have not had any difficulties with consistency. Additionally, it is my understanding Mg is crucial for proper calcification but is not used by corals at the same rate as Ca and alkalinity so folks don't pay attention to it quite as much. I consider it equally important and test for it at the same rate as Ca and dKH. By testing for it, I was able to ascertain my salt was very low in Mg and it needed to be corrected improving overall water chemistry/balance.

@tidalgardens and @Bulk Reef Supply both have very good videos on Mg which I would recommend reviewing.

I have watched them all that test just isn't for me I'm yelling u I have done three test in a row on a fresh batch of water and got three completely diffent results

Talking with randy a couple times about this same subject he said that if I have a good two part system I am doseing then it's really one of those things I do not need to test for or worry about everyday it is important like u said in the calcification process but one of those things u don't have to chase. So I don't I have no idea what my mag is or care what it is as I'm using a good two part(triton)

But it's good u can figure out what ur mag is and found this out hopefully it saved ya some head scratching down the road

 

[HolisticBear]

I have watched them all that test just isn't for me I'm yelling u I have done three test in a row on a fresh batch of water and got three completely diffent results

I use salifert vs Red Sea Mg because of all the complaints about Red Sea Mg test. What kills me about Mg is that it takes 10x longer than Ca to test. With Ca you can put in 80% of the liquid then start drip titration. That apparently doesn't work with Mg, so you have to go drip by drip from start. I feel I can test all my parameters in the amount of time a single Mg test takes.

 

[dmw913]

I use salifert vs Red Sea Mg because of all the complaints about Red Sea Mg test. What kills me about Mg is that it takes 10x longer than Ca to test. With Ca you can put in 80% of the liquid then start drip titration. That apparently doesn't work with Mg, so you have to go drip by drip from start. I feel I can test all my parameters in the amount of time a single Mg test takes.

Interesting, while it is more fussy to be sure, I certainly haven't had to single drop as you describe. Y'all have me thinking I need to order a different brand to cross-check since I'm just not having the same difficulties.

 

[HolisticBear]

Interesting, while it is more fussy to be sure, I certainly haven't had to single drop as you describe. Y'all have me thinking I need to order a different brand to cross-check since I'm just not having the same difficulties.

I've never used Red Sea Mg, just read a slew of complaints on R2R on that one test kit, so I started with salifert. You can always use an ICP test to verify the big 3 as well.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Talking with randy a couple times about this same subject he said that if I have a good two part system I am doseing then it's really one of those things I do not need to test for or worry about everyday it is important like u said in the calcification process but one of those things u don't have to chase. So I don't I have no idea what my mag is or care what it is as I'm using a good two part(triton)

Yup.
Its also why its recommended quit often to only test alk only once the levels are even, as the C/A/M decrease at the same rate.

Y'all have me thinking I need to order a different brand to cross-check since I'm just not having the same difficulties.

its interesting to understand the differences but, its why I dont recommend to most to keep buying tests...

 

[justingraham]

Yea that mg one is crazy I always loose count on the five drops every five seconds and then I just get mad and I hate it

So that's a test I do not use because as mr Michael said it takes longer to do then all test combined

 

[dmw913]

7/12/2017 Update: "I'm a dumb butt - a cautionary tale."

Ok, I've gone on and on about being meticulous in planning, maintenance and most all things for the tank because I want to be successful. I've also invested a bunch of money that I don't want wasted, right?! I test regularly, try to educate myself as to most things reef and overall do a good job. Hell, I have a PAR meter because I'm trying to monitor conditions at a high level...

Imagine my surprise, embarrassment, frustration when I got a new bottle of calibration solution for my refractometer as I had been out for a little while and recalibrated to find that my hydrometer was wildly off which in turn made my tank water exceptionally low in salinity. No wonder I have been struggling. Grrrrr. I'm as mad at myself for not having extra solution on hand and trusting the refractometer would hold it's calibration for a moment, frustrated at chasing my tail over certain issues only to have a major, fundamental issue staring me in the face and missing it, and super sad that I've likely stressed my fish and corals all while looking for other issues. #forestfortreesmuch?!

In any event, I'm fixing the problem and moving on from here as we all do when we have a setback in this hobby while trying to take some lessons from it. I received my sodium nitrate in the mail and mixed up a solution according to the math found at https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sodium-nitrate-dosing.271540/ (Big thanks to @drawman and @Randy Holmes-Farley for the math! I would have had no idea how to do it without that thread.) I had an extra Sodastream bottle that is exactly 1 liter and very sturdy so it makes a great container for the solution. I've also received my BRS 2 part + Mg and gotten that all mixed.

I've also ordered more calibration solution...

I'll get the salinity of the tank back to where it needs to be, finish dialing in all the rest of the parameters, survey the damage and report back.

D

 

[HolisticBear]

I'm as mad at myself for not having extra solution on hand and trusting the refractometer would hold it's calibration for a moment

I wanted to throw my Red Sea refractometer in the garbage after realizing it could lose calibration if you look at it funny. I searched R2R and bought the BRS one in response and it's been solid. I calibrate before every use. The difference between BRS and Red Sea is that two minutes later, the BRS is still calibrated. Red Sea, maybe - maybe not

It's one of the infuriating things about the hobby is getting accurate data. Bad data is worse than none and why is it so hard to get good numbers? Between bad test kits, poorly QA salt mixes, poorly built refractometers, ugh. A Triton test could have have caught the issue. They are pricey, but so valuable in the "huh moments".

 

[dmw913]

I wanted to throw my Red Sea refractometer in the garbage after realizing it could lose calibration if you look at it funny. I searched R2R and bought the BRS one in response and it's been solid. I calibrate before every use. The difference between BRS and Red Sea is that two minutes later, the BRS is still calibrated. Red Sea, maybe - maybe not

It's one of the infuriating things about the hobby is getting accurate data. Bad data is worse than none and why is it so hard to get good numbers? Between bad test kits, poorly QA salt mixes, poorly built refractometers, ugh. A Triton test could have have caught the issue. They are pricey, but so valuable in the "huh moments".

I have ALREADY thrown the Red Sea refractometer in the trash!!! I wouldn't even feel right about passing it along to another hobbyist for free. Feels irresponsible. Thankfully, I had another refractometer at the office. Funny that it appears to be same brand as BRS one although I did not purchase this particular item from them. Calibrated, have tested several times tonight and it hasn't moved. I'll cross-check with new calibration solution that's on order and if it's off at all, I'm seriously considering buying a Milwaukee digital.

I've done a couple more Mg tests since the discussion above and continue to have good luck in that area. Fingers crossed.

 

[justingraham]

I have ALREADY thrown the Red Sea refractometer in the trash!!! I wouldn't even feel right about passing it along to another hobbyist for free. Feels irresponsible. Thankfully, I had another refractometer at the office. Funny that it appears to be same brand as BRS one although I did not purchase this particular item from them. Calibrated, have tested several times tonight and it hasn't moved. I'll cross-check with new calibration solution that's on order and if it's off at all, I'm seriously considering buying a Milwaukee digital.

I've done a couple more Mg tests since the discussion above and continue to have good luck in that area. Fingers crossed.

So maby it's a girl thing because I can't do the mag test at all. My girl tested it the day I sent out a triton test she got 1300 the triton test came back 1298. I did the same test and got 1560 how I have no idea but the most important thing I learned is that my girl will forever test the magnesium on our tank.

 

[dmw913]

So maby it's a girl thing because I can't do the mag test at all. My girl tested it the day I sent out a triton test she got 1300 the triton test came back 1298. I did the same test and got 1560 how I have no idea but the most important thing I learned is that my girl will forever test the magnesium on our tank.

I laughed hard at that one, Justin! I'm going with your theory!!!

 

[mrvn]

It looks like an amazing build! I can't wait to see more pictures! How is the Varios 6 working on the 250? I ordered a varios 4 for a Reefer 250 that is being delivered tomorrow but Im not sure if I should get the varios 6 instead.

 

[drawman]

7/12/2017 Update: "I'm a dumb *** - a cautionary tale."

Ok, I've gone on and on about being meticulous in planning, maintenance and most all things for the tank because I want to be successful. I've also invested a bunch of money that I don't want wasted, right?! I test regularly, try to educate myself as to most things reef and overall do a good job. Hell, I have a PAR meter because I'm trying to monitor conditions at a high level...

Imagine my surprise, embarrassment, frustration when I got a new bottle of calibration solution for my refractometer as I had been out for a little while and recalibrated to find that my hydrometer was wildly off which in turn made my tank water exceptionally low in salinity. No wonder I have been struggling. Grrrrr. I'm as mad at myself for not having extra solution on hand and trusting the refractometer would hold it's calibration for a moment, frustrated at chasing my tail over certain issues only to have a major, fundamental issue staring me in the face and missing it, and super sad that I've likely stressed my fish and corals all while looking for other issues. #forestfortreesmuch?!

In any event, I'm fixing the problem and moving on from here as we all do when we have a setback in this hobby while trying to take some lessons from it. I received my sodium nitrate in the mail and mixed up a solution according to the math found at https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/sodium-nitrate-dosing.271540/ (Big thanks to @drawman and @Randy Holmes-Farley for the math! I would have had no idea how to do it without that thread.) I had an extra Sodastream bottle that is exactly 1 liter and very sturdy so it makes a great container for the solution. I've also received my BRS 2 part + Mg and gotten that all mixed.

I've also ordered more calibration solution...

I'll get the salinity of the tank back to where it needs to be, finish dialing in all the rest of the parameters, survey the damage and report back.

D

You're welcome good luck with the nitrate dosing

Also be careful not to overcorrect I have seen some of those calibration solutions be off as well.

 

[HolisticBear]

It looks like an amazing build! I can't wait to see more pictures! How is the Varios 6 working on the 250? I ordered a varios 4 for a Reefer 250 that is being delivered tomorrow but Im not sure if I should get the varios 6 instead.

I'm running the Varios 2 on a 170 and it's not at max power. However, @saltyfilmfolks would call me a low flow sump guy. At max power, it makes a bit more noise thru the filter socks than I like. I bought the Varios in large part due to this thread.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'm running the Varios 2 on a 170 and it's not at max power. However, @saltyfilmfolks would call me a low flow sump guy. At max power, it makes a bit more noise thru the filter socks than I like. I bought the Varios in large part due to this thread.

Lol. And ain't no shame in it.
What's your return rate?

 

[HolisticBear]

Lol. And ain't no shame in it.
What's your return rate?

If you believe pump flow rates, it's like 11x. But I bet if I had a flow meter, my real turnover is closer to 5?? Varios2 can do 792gph at max, I'm running it around ~550 and it's 43 gallon total (34 DT). No manifold, straight piece of silicon tubing into return. It's so quiet, the water trickling into the filter sock is the loudest sound in the sump.