Designer names for fish now?

:face-without-mouth:
Considering there $300 pocket change fish don’t live more than a week, I’d venture to say this one would live a month
 
Silliest things I’ve read in a while. When you morph capitalism with livestock, nothing good comes of it. Plus unless there is sometime or paperwork or genetic test that irrefutably states this fish is different for x reason, you open the door to scam artists and people buying a tank today to sell fish out of tomorrow .
Eh. I'm not sure I understand your point. capitalism + marine livestock = reef hobby industry. The whole concept of selling livestock at varied prices based on supply and demand (capitalism) is exactly what happens everyday with every livestock sale that happens in this industry. This is true whether we're purchasing a common acro, clownfish, or the latest unique specimen of coral or fish. So the statement about "morphing capitalism with livestock" seems like an odd line to draw. Is there something more you meant by this?

The point about scam artists doesn't make much sense to me either. The risk of scamming exists in every corner of this hobby. I've seen scammers use high priced and low priced items to do that. Shady business practices do not depend on unique specimens, and I fail to see how marketing unique specimens opens the door any wider than many other ways people attempt to scam others in this and other industries. Buyers should make sure to purchase from trusted sources, and there are certainly ways to vet vendors. But maybe there just needs to be more unpacking of what exactly you're trying to say here.
 
Eh. I'm not sure I understand your point. capitalism + marine livestock = reef hobby industry. The whole concept of selling livestock at varied prices based on supply and demand (capitalism) is exactly what happens everyday with every livestock sale that happens in this industry. This is true whether we're purchasing a common acro, clownfish, or the latest unique specimen of coral or fish. So the statement about "morphing capitalism with livestock" seems like an odd line to draw. Is there something more you meant by this?

The point about scam artists doesn't make much sense to me either. The risk of scamming exists in every corner of this hobby. I've seen scammers use high priced and low priced items to do that. Shady business practices do not depend on unique specimens, and I fail to see how marketing unique specimens opens the door any wider than many other ways people attempt to scam others in this and other industries. Buyers should make sure to purchase from trusted sources, and there are certainly ways to vet vendors. But maybe there just needs to be more unpacking of what exactly you're trying to say here.

from my perspective, 90 percent of the names out there are scams, intentional or not. Unless there is some validation, like they do with autographed memorabilia, then it’s all he said she said. I have seen someone buy regular green indo torches, hold on to them for a while, come up with a reidulos and and sell those $60 torches for 400, from there someone feels bad, they turn around and frag it, and do the same thing and the chain goes on. If this industry has a shred of regulation aside from fish and game at the airport , the industry would be in trouble. People go to court over AkC dogs, because they paid 2500 vs, 600, imagine the scale of corals under that microscope?

I would venture to say there is 100x the amount of coral sellers now than there was 15 years ago. Was a new ocean discovered that created and influx of corals? People have been fragging since the 90s as i recall, difference is then they called them broken or fragment and usually have them away or tossed them, today, there sold as something there not or were not acquired as. I love messaging Facebook sellers and asking how long they’ve been in the hobby, typically they say a long time, 2-3 years, or flat out lie and say 10 years, yet if you look at there post history, they were asking the most rudimentary questions not but a year ago. Stuff like how the nitrogen cycle works, and why did my flame angel shred my zoas etc. There is a super corrupt store near my house, been there at least 25 years. The shadiest place you can think of, we’re talking employees selling after hours then telling the owner that particular fish jumped or died, chlorine tablets being throwing in the sumps to get back at someone else, selling 400 pound of live rock to someone with a 90 gallon, and I’m sure a host of other issues. Well, some of those employees, some summer help, saw what the cost is for a coral and what the mark up is, and would set tanks up in there house, and under sell the store to their customers. Well, now they make a living off of it importing basic corals, taking good photos, and literally selling them days after import in order to mitigate the inevitable losses. Ever see the raffles guys run? Say you got a coral that retails for $100, you put a post out, $20 a ticket, 15 spots, (net $300 for something that is $100 retail) , if it doesn’t ship right or dies, you refund that person who won it $15 , the amount they put in, and you still made $285 on a coral that died, that should have been $100 to begin with.

droves of people are entering it to do this. Quality marine used to be strict with who they sold to. I knew some legit tank maintenance guys who couldn’t get accounts, now, there are tons of people who have 3 seventy-five gallon tanks in their Home basement.

Call it what it is, a Wild West atmosphere where people are looking to cash in, and when you can’t do that with reputation or quality home grown stuff, how else do you stand out? Create the illusion you have something nobody else does and this is the ticket for it.
 
I don’t think designer names are necessary. Call it what it is but then price it and describe it based on how it looks. “Koi” tangs. Okay it’s a multi-color pattern of a Scopas tang (generally. Adding a descriptor to the name is fine. Misbar clown…yep. But others (mostly clowns have this issue) just say white ocellaris or mottled ocellaris. I still can’t tell the difference between a Picasso, a storm, and certain misbars (especially when the LFS tosses them all in the same tank). Descriptor is fine. That gem tang name is a joke. It’s not descriptive it’s marketing. Something like “barred gem tang” should be enough. I don’t know. But then it’s deciding what’s a descriptor and what’s designer. Who’s calling the shots?
So - I have a unique tang - and I title it "Gem tang - unique pattern" - and charge xxx $ who cares - if someone likes it they will buy it - if not they won't Right? I m thinking we agree:)
 
:face-without-mouth:
I think you must realize - that different companies use these fish with ridiculous (should be caps) prices - so that people come to their site. Obviously - it's a fish they do not want to sell - but use for advertising. It's like I had a puppy that was great - from a litter - and I said Puppy for sale, 20,000. No one is going to buy that puppy but they are going to look at the rest...
 
from my perspective, 90 percent of the names out there are scams, intentional or not. Unless there is some validation, like they do with autographed memorabilia, then it’s all he said she said. I have seen someone buy regular green indo torches, hold on to them for a while, come up with a reidulos and and sell those $60 torches for 400, from there someone feels bad, they turn around and frag it, and do the same thing and the chain goes on. If this industry has a shred of regulation aside from fish and game at the airport , the industry would be in trouble. People go to court over AkC dogs, because they paid 2500 vs, 600, imagine the scale of corals under that microscope?

I would venture to say there is 100x the amount of coral sellers now than there was 15 years ago. Was a new ocean discovered that created and influx of corals? People have been fragging since the 90s as i recall, difference is then they called them broken or fragment and usually have them away or tossed them, today, there sold as something there not or were not acquired as. I love messaging Facebook sellers and asking how long they’ve been in the hobby, typically they say a long time, 2-3 years, or flat out lie and say 10 years, yet if you look at there post history, they were asking the most rudimentary questions not but a year ago. Stuff like how the nitrogen cycle works, and why did my flame angel shred my zoas etc. There is a super corrupt store near my house, been there at least 25 years. The shadiest place you can think of, we’re talking employees selling after hours then telling the owner that particular fish jumped or died, chlorine tablets being throwing in the sumps to get back at someone else, selling 400 pound of live rock to someone with a 90 gallon, and I’m sure a host of other issues. Well, some of those employees, some summer help, saw what the cost is for a coral and what the mark up is, and would set tanks up in there house, and under sell the store to their customers. Well, now they make a living off of it importing basic corals, taking good photos, and literally selling them days after import in order to mitigate the inevitable losses. Ever see the raffles guys run? Say you got a coral that retails for $100, you put a post out, $20 a ticket, 15 spots, (net $300 for something that is $100 retail) , if it doesn’t ship right or dies, you refund that person who won it $15 , the amount they put in, and you still made $285 on a coral that died, that should have been $100 to begin with.

droves of people are entering it to do this. Quality marine used to be strict with who they sold to. I knew some legit tank maintenance guys who couldn’t get accounts, now, there are tons of people who have 3 seventy-five gallon tanks in their Home basement.

Call it what it is, a Wild West atmosphere where people are looking to cash in, and when you can’t do that with reputation or quality home grown stuff, how else do you stand out? Create the illusion you have something nobody else does and this is the ticket for it.
don't buy the name buy the one you like. your comments could be made about nearly every industry
 
So I’m going to take this a bit of a different direction. One of my long living pet peeves ( first time I’ve written the word “peeves” :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes: are beautiful marine fish that deserve an equally beautiful and classy name. But somewhere in the past someone with a hillbilly accent said “that pufferfish looks like a dog” or “that fish looks like that rabbit i shot fur dinner” “and it has a face like a fox?” Hum? Wonder what I should name these unique and amazing creatures?
So I vote we incorporate designer names for fish that have another animal’s names like dog, lion, fox, squirrel, rabbit, horse, cat, cow, etc. we can definitely do better than this!
 
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Just saw designer names for tangs now. This is outrageous. Unless it lives ten times longer or stays 10 times smaller. This has to stop or the hobby is going to be only for the 1% who can afford it. I know I don’t have to buy any of these designer names things but they also drive up the prices of everything.
It’s just stupid
 
People will charge what the market will bear. Blame the people willing to drop that kind of coin. This hobby can be as cheap or expensive as you wanna make it. To each their own. I browse the stores and drool over expensive pieces...but i dont buy them. Used gear and cheap frags are where its at for me. My wife and i like to take mini road trips to put of town LFS and baragain hunt. My favorite is an hour and a half away, and they have a HUGE selection of $25 frags. Sure they stock $500 torches, but they also have frags for $5. Its your tank, youre the one who has to look at it every day. So buy what like. If 1k tangs do it for you...you do you boo. Ill stick with my $6 gobies.
 
We up the price for imperfect specimens in this Hobby but yet do the opposite in dog breeds.
Only the most perfect breed of dog commands the highest price. I wonder why that is?
 
In particular, I think that the "koi" scopas trend has gotten out of hand. When I got in the hobby only a few years ago, they were tough to find, and always ranged at around 600$, basically like gem tangs. Usually the specimens offered were pretty nice, with some whites and blues as well. They're super easy to find now, most sites that sell any unique fish have loads of them. One site in particular gets in a few dozen every couple of weeks. Most of these look pretty bad to me, mainly brown with patches of yellow here and there. I prefer the regular scopas, these ones look almost diseased to me, even though they're technically healthy. And still, despite the massive availability and the somewhat low quality fish, these are now all over 2000$! A bunch of them are even higher, too. Here's a "tri-color koi" scopas that's for sale right now at 6000$! I count two real colors, a few discolored patches, and one ugly fish!

1680605216140.png


Compare that to a "normal" scopas tang. Can you guess which one I'd rather have? The "normal", by the way, costs 50$. If you want to buy a "koi" tang, go for it, but that's perhaps not the soundest decision the way I see it.

1680605348861.png


When it comes to the gem tangs, the "designer" ones I see are either normal specimens with slightly variable spots, or seriously sick with HLLE. Given that they cost only 200$ on a wholesaler's list, they're overpriced already. They aren't actually very rare in the wild, they just live alone and closer to the rock than other tangs, making them hard to catch. "Hard to catch" shouldn't make a fish $800. I'd imagine that engineer gobies and blennies aren't a walk in the park to get in a net, but they cost 40$. And clown tangs, giant, elusive, solitary, fast, and colorful fish as they are, cost less than $100.

Long story short? Most "rare" Zebrasoma tangs are overpriced for no particular reason. Gems aren't that uncommon, and koi scopas tangs look like moldy bread. Vendors raise prices beyond where they should be, and we just accept that these fish are "rare" or "exclusive" without looking into it. Basically, buy a regular scopas tang, take good care of it, and you'll have a fish that outshines any "koi" tang.
 
Don’t like them, don’t buy them. In my opinion, most of them are not at all attractive. In fact, many of the clowns and some others I’ve seen are down right ugly. Just my opinion.
 
I have no problem with it if they are professionally aquacultured like clownfish. I do have a problem with the ridiculous prices. I think we are starting to see Gem Tangs come down in price thankfully.
 
I have no problem with it if they are professionally aquacultured like clownfish. I do have a problem with the ridiculous prices. I think we are starting to see Gem Tangs come down in price thankfully.
I've noticed that too with gem tangs being cheaper than a year or 2 ago
 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%
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