Diagnosing Death of Saltwater Fish

[kaijor]

Hello,

Sadly, two of my fish, a yellow belly damsel and a Ruby Head Fairy Wrasse in my quarantine tank have just died (or close to the death) when I awoke in the morning. I had them in a 10 gallon tank. The odd thing is that all my parameters are fine.
Here are my parameters:
Salinity: 1.025
PH: 7.8
Nitrates: 5.0
Nitrites: 0
Ammonia: 0.5 (began treating the tank with Prime just in case)
Temperature: 76.1

Thus, I am a bit confused. I bought them from a reputable Local Fish Store. They stated that they've been treating them with medication for 2 weeks with no problems. I've only had them for about 4 days. The only thing that I can think of is that maybe the water oxygenated enough but I have Amazon.com so the water should be aerated. The reason why I say that there might be not enough oxygen is because they keeping opening and closing their mouths. Also, they look a bit paler as well.


Any help with diagnosing the problem would be much appreciated as I want to learn from this terrible experience and prevent this from happing again.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

@Fish Medic or @Jay Hemdal

 

[Jekyl]

Stores don't usually treat disease properly. If they keep medications in their tanks, it's only meant to suppress disease, not actually treat it.

 

[Acros]

Sounds a bit like ammonia poisoning. I am not an expert, curious to know what the experts think.

 

[kaijor]

Sounds a bit like ammonia poisoning. I am not an expert, curious to know what the experts think.

It does, but the ammonia is so low that it shouldn't be a problem really. Any more ammonia I would've definitely thought that was culprit for sure.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Hello,

Sadly, two of my fish, a yellow belly damsel and a Ruby Head Fairy Wrasse in my quarantine tank have just died (or close to the death) when I awoke in the morning. I had them in a 10 gallon tank. The odd thing is that all my parameters are fine.
Here are my parameters:
Salinity: 1.025
PH: 7.8
Nitrates: 5.0
Nitrites: 0
Ammonia: 0.5 (began treating the tank with Prime just in case)
Temperature: 76.1

Thus, I am a bit confused. I bought them from a reputable Local Fish Store. They stated that they've been treating them with medication for 2 weeks with no problems. I've only had them for about 4 days. The only thing that I can think of is that maybe the water oxygenated enough but I have Amazon.com so the water should be aerated. The reason why I say that there might be not enough oxygen is because they keeping opening and closing their mouths. Also, they look a bit paler as well.


Any help with diagnosing the problem would be much appreciated as I want to learn from this terrible experience and prevent this from happing again.

sounds like ammonia poisoning or some disease worsened by stress/bad params. Are you new to SW? things are way more sensitive than FW, so keep an extra eye on PH and Ammonia especially. Since its a observation QT, it should have had filters that were cycled before adding fish. I guess use the Prime for now, get some copper and antibiotics to have on hand just in case

 

[SlugSnorter]

It does, but the ammonia is so low that it shouldn't be a problem really. Any more ammonia I would've definitely thought that was culprit for sure.

ammonia is high. Ammonia should be 0.1 at the very most in a healthy SW tank.

 

[Acros]

It does, but the ammonia is so low that it shouldn't be a problem really. Any more ammonia I would've definitely thought that was culprit for sure.

How did you cycle the quarantine tank?

 

[SlugSnorter]

Also, did you acclimate your fish? if so, how?

 

[kaijor]

I put kept them floating and added water to the bag every 15 minutes until the bag was filled with the tank water.

Well, I'm going to try to do a restart and redo the cycle to the tank because there is something wrong obviously if ammonia are spiking like that.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I put kept them floating and added water to the bag every 15 minutes until the bag was filled with the tank water.

Well, I'm going to try to do a restart and redo the cycle to the tank because there is something wrong obviously if ammonia are spiking like that.

did you check params of the water the fish was in? Maybe should have drip acclimated. The water they were in at the LFS likely had lower salinity and higher ph

 

[kaijor]

did you check params of the water the fish was in? Maybe should have drip acclimated. The water they were in at the LFS likely had lower salinity and higher ph

No, I'll do that next time for sure. I wasn't aware that was necessary.

 

[SlugSnorter]

No, I'll do that next time for sure. I wasn't aware that was necessary.

are you new to SW? I can give a rundown of some care and acclimation stuff if you'd like.

 

[kaijor]

are you new to SW? I can give a rundown of some care and acclimation stuff if you'd like.

I am pretty new. I've been basically cycling my tanks for 2-3 months only. No livestocks yet (until this week of course). Sure, if you don't mind that would be great.

 

[Cool tangs]

Sadly I have been having issues with my newly purchased fish in QT bought from LFS. I find they are doing well eating well and then about 7 days later they are on there side dead. I feel like the quality of fish has dropped of recent, it's been super frustrating. I also heard Jake Adams mention the quality of fish on his recent podcast. It's very hard to know exactly the course when there is no symptoms. There is one LFS in particular that I just can't keep any fish alive and they get there fish from Kenya and it makes me believe there method of catching fish and transport seems to have some issues. Sadly I've given up on a lot of species and try to source local fish as much as possible now days because of this. I've spent way to much on fish in recent months that have just died in QT it's getting beyond a joke considering it was rare to lose fish in QT unless you did something seriously wrong.

That's just my experience and I won't buy fish imported from Kenya due to this issue. It may just be the company they are sourcing them from but it get to a point were you put some trust in your LFS only to have a gut full of there rubbish. I rarely have any issues with fish sourced locally in fact so far not lost a fish locally sourced as I personally know the collector's.

Hope you figure it out happy reefing!

 

[kaijor]

Sadly I have been having issues with my newly purchased fish in QT bought from LFS. I find they are doing well eating well and then about 7 days later they are on there side dead. I feel like the quality of fish has dropped of recent, it's been super frustrating. I also heard Jake Adams mention the quality of fish on his recent podcast. It's very hard to know exactly the course when there is no symptoms. There is one LFS in particular that I just can't keep any fish alive and they get there fish from Kenya and it makes me believe there method of catching fish and transport seems to have some issues. Sadly I've given up on a lot of species and try to source local fish as much as possible now days because of this. I've spent way to much on fish in recent months that have just died in QT it's getting beyond a joke considering it was rare to lose fish in QT unless you did something seriously wrong.

That's just my experience and I won't buy fish imported from Kenya due to this issue. It may just be the company they are sourcing them from but it get to a point were you put some trust in your LFS only to have a gut full of there rubbish. I rarely have any issues with fish sourced locally in fact so far not lost a fish locally sourced as I personally know the collector's.

Hope you figure it out happy reefing!

I think in this case it wasn't the LFS fault, but my fault. I needed to wait a bit longer probably.

Anybody have any suggestions on cleaning procedure after fish death?

 

[SlugSnorter]

I am pretty new. I've been basically cycling my tanks for 2-3 months only. No livestocks yet. Sure, if you don't mind that would be great.

heres a few pointers, not super comprehensive, but I hope it helps:

Basic cycling should go like this in a DT (display tank, AKA your main tank):

Once water is mixed, heater is in and pump is working, add bottled bacteria (microbactr and Dr. Tims are the best brands of bottled bac). From there, you can either choose to use ammonia additives (essentially pure ammonia) as according to the instructions of whatever brand you are using or just add some fish food or some shrimp/fish (boiled for 60 seconds to prevent disease risks). Check parameters every other day and do not mess with PH, it will be wonky while that stuff is breaking down. After a while, ammonia will go down, and nitrates will go up. Once ammonia is at 0.0, the tank is cycled. If nitrates are above 20.0, do a 50% waterchange. Do not add fish until tank is fully cycled


Most QT tanks just use some old filter media to "seed" the other media inside.

Acclimation:

If shipped online, follow shippers instructions

Corals should only be floated and added as soon as temp is reached, lighting should be reduced for a while

Ask what salinity and PH fish are kept at

if within 1 ppt, temp acclimation should be fine

if within 2 ppt, after temperature acclimation, release all fish and transport water into a bucket.
Take out 25% transport water and discard it. Replace it with same amount of tank water.
Wait 10 min and repeat the water exchange again. Wait 10 min between each exchange. Repeat until salinity is within 1 point.

more than 3, or with a sensitive fish or invert (shrimp, urchins), place them into a stable container with an airstone and use a drip tube and have 1-2 drops per second of water flowing in. Keep an eye on temp

visual guide

Age (since cycle was done):

1month and below: Hardy Fish, hardy inverts like ceriths, nassarius, trochus. Very light cuc, not much algae will have grown in

2 - 3 months: Fairly Hardy fish, fairly hardy inverts like some cleaner shrimp, cuc can grow a bit, around 3 months and tank will be okay for beginner corals, I recommend ricorda florida personally.

4 - 6 months: most common fish, slightly more picky inverts like urchins, sexy shrimp, pom pom crabs, decent array of soft coral

Random tips:

Ammonia should always be below 0.1 in a healthy tank, and preferably remain below 0.0.

Remember to preform weekly waterchanges and to heat waterchanges to the temp of the tank water. Do not stir by hand. Water should be clear, undissolved salt is dangerous.

Wash hands with PLAIN WATER and NO soap before you put your hands in the tank (hands in the tank be kept to a minimum)

Do not use Tap water when mixing, use RODI or at least Distilled water

PH and Temp swings are harmful to marine life, so be careful when adding chemicals to mess with PH or if the surroundings are hot/cold

 

[kaijor]

heres a few pointers, not super comprehensive, but I hope it helps:

Basic cycling should go like this in a DT (display tank, AKA your main tank):

Once water is mixed, heater is in and pump is working, add bottled bacteria (microbactr and Dr. Tims are the best brands of bottled bac). From there, you can either choose to use ammonia additives (essentially pure ammonia) as according to the instructions of whatever brand you are using or just add some fish food or some shrimp/fish (boiled for 60 seconds to prevent disease risks). Check parameters every other day and do not mess with PH, it will be wonky while that stuff is breaking down. After a while, ammonia will go down, and nitrates will go up. Once ammonia is at 0.0, the tank is cycled. If nitrates are above 20.0, do a 50% waterchange. Do not add fish until tank is fully cycled


Most QT tanks just use some old filter media to "seed" the other media inside.

Acclimation:

If shipped online, follow shippers instructions

Corals should only be floated and added as soon as temp is reached, lighting should be reduced for a while

Ask what salinity and PH fish are kept at

if within 1 ppt, temp acclimation should be fine

if within 2 ppt, after temperature acclimation, release all fish and transport water into a bucket.
Take out 25% transport water and discard it. Replace it with same amount of tank water.
Wait 10 min and repeat the water exchange again. Wait 10 min between each exchange. Repeat until salinity is within 1 point.

more than 3, or with a sensitive fish or invert (shrimp, urchins), place them into a stable container with an airstone and use a drip tube and have 1-2 drops per second of water flowing in. Keep an eye on temp

visual guide

Age (since cycle was done):

1month and below: Hardy Fish, hardy inverts like ceriths, nassarius, trochus. Very light cuc, not much algae will have grown in

2 - 3 months: Fairly Hardy fish, fairly hardy inverts like some cleaner shrimp, cuc can grow a bit, around 3 months and tank will be okay for beginner corals, I recommend ricorda florida personally.

4 - 6 months: most common fish, slightly more picky inverts like urchins, sexy shrimp, pom pom crabs, decent array of soft coral

Random tips:

Ammonia should always be below 0.1 in a healthy tank, and preferably remain below 0.0.

Remember to preform weekly waterchanges and to heat waterchanges to the temp of the tank water. Do not stir by hand. Water should be clear, undissolved salt is dangerous.

Wash hands with PLAIN WATER and NO soap before you put your hands in the tank (hands in the tank be kept to a minimum)

Do not use Tap water when mixing, use RODI or at least Distilled water

PH and Temp swings are harmful to marine life, so be careful when adding chemicals to mess with PH or if the surroundings are hot/cold

Thank you so much for this.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Thank you so much for this.

no problem! happy to help

 

[kaijor]

no problem! happy to help

One question, do you by chance know of the best procedure for cleaning a tank after fish death?