Diagnosis needed for golden-brown (possible bacteria)

[EricTheRed]

Hey all,

I'm stumped and need some help identifying what's going on in my 90.

Quick background, the tank has been up and running since JUN 2014 and started stocking in SEP 2014.

Nitrates: ~1ppm (I like it here)
Phosphates: 0.02

I keep up with my rodi filters/resin and the TDS is 001. I used new sand when I started the tank 8 months ago so my first thought was just a delayed diatom bloom since there is a golden brown dusting that covers my rocks and sandbed but now I'm fairly certain it is NOT diatoms because it is photosynthetic...like cyano.

Here are a few points:

• doesn't grow like a thick mat like red cyano
• easily blows of rocks and disappears in the water column
• doesn't slough off like when you blow cyano off rocks
• it does clump the sand a bit
• it adheres to rock and sand and even sticks to a little hair algae
• does not stick to my acros
• ran chemiclean (to kill some red cyano) 3 weeks ago and it did nothing to the golden-brown stuff (killed the red, though)
• NOT slimy or stringy with bubbles like dino (thank God!)
• my diamond gobie will not sift it. He will immediately sift the sand if I clear him a clean area.
• my foxface won't peck at the HA unless I blew the dust off
• snails will eat the dusty HA but I've noticed more dead snails than normal so I don't think it is healthy
• If I syphon the sb really good during a wc it will stay mostly gone for about 2 days but comes back

In the morning (before lights) I can see very small patches of it it in the sandbed but within a few hours of the lights coming on it will have covered 80-90% of it. Being photosynthetic I'm ruling out diatoms even thought it looks like them. I'm assuming it is some sort of bacteria yet it didn't die from chemiclean (erythromycin antibiotic) like I would have expected a bacteria to die from.

It's been around for over a month now and doesn't appear to be getting any better (or worse) but I need it gone post haste...

Anyone know what this is and how to get rid of it?

 

[Alabamareef]

Looks like diatomes... Save this guide somewhere, it will come in handy...

Reef Cleaners

 

[al*]

I once had dinoflagellates that looked similar. With most of them you can see the single cells moving if you look with a magnifying glass. Just turn off all flow and choose a spot near the front glass that you can observe. If it's dinoflagellates the cells will start moving up from the substrate and you will see the single cells "jittering".

They disappeared on their own in my tank and apparently weren't of a toxic species.

 

[EricTheRed]

Looks like diatomes... Save this guide somewhere, it will come in handy...

Reef Cleaners

Hmmm... years ago at my first rodeo I learned that the visible "brown" from diatoms are actually their dead shells since the live ones are invisible in the water column. Care to explain how dead shells would multiply (ie photosynthesize) themselves?

 

[Alabamareef]

Hmmm... years ago at my first rodeo I learned that the visible "brown" from diatoms are actually their dead shells since the live ones are invisible in the water column. Care to explain how dead shells would multiply (ie photosynthesize) themselves?

Read the link I sent. Its shows a lot of Niuseance Alage's

Almost sure to appear in a new system, diatoms are some of the most abundant organisms on earth. They usually surface in the aquarium as a brown powdery like substance, within a week or so after a tank finishes its cycle. Diatoms feed on available silicates in your system and will run their course in time. Similarly, because they feed on silicates, anytime you add new sand, rock or something plastic they can pop up.

Manual Removal - Diatoms are easily wiped from the glass with a mag float, a turkey baster or a toothbrush can access other areas of the tank. Be prepared for them to re-establish themselves quickly, they are likely to be able to resettle and have amazingly fast growth rates.

 

[EricTheRed]

Hmmm... years ago at my first rodeo I learned that the visible "brown" from diatoms are actually their dead shells since the live ones are invisible in the water column. Care to explain how dead shells would multiply (ie photosynthesize) themselves?

Ok, I just re-read that and it sounded sarcastic. Allow me re-phrase, it appears that whatever this is grows and multiplies 10 fold during the daylight hours and then mostly goes away at night. If the diatoms that we see in the sand are actually the dead shells then wouldn't they still be there in the morning?
I do have a cuc but I wouldn't think the would eat so much of this each night.

 

[al*]

Diatoms are not invisible and do occur in (new) tanks as a powdery coating on surfaces and sometimes in mature systems on the sand, new rocks or the glass.

 

[EricTheRed]

Diatoms are not invisible and do occur in (new) tanks as a powdery coating on surfaces and sometimes in mature systems on the sand, new rocks or the glass.

I recently read somewhere that you can't see the diatoms with your naked eye when they are alive. Then when they die the shells turn brown and then the dead brown shells cover everything. This might be the root of my ignorance here if you're saying that the actual living diatoms are the brown stuff on the rocks and sand.

I took a sample and looked at it under a magnifying glass (wish I had a microscope but don't). What I saw were very tiny brown specs that appeared to be moving. If you're saying that the diatoms are brown when they are alive then this is it. Maybe my cuc is eating them at night and that is why they almost disappear by the morning and then cover nearly my entire sb by later afternoon while the snails sleep.

 

[Alabamareef]

Have you recently added anything new to your tank, ie: powerheads, sump anything plastic, new sand...?

 

[Alabamareef]

Something else to think about, this just happened to me. I had added some GFO recently and the flow inside the reactor was very turbulint and caused some clouding. The result of this was a golden brown on the sand bed and at night I could not see it, lack of white lighting. I fixed the flow and vaccumened the sand bed and life is good now...

 

[Reefing Madness]

Only thing I have for this case would be:
If you've changed your lighting, and caused a higher dose of light. Diatoms is what it looks like to me also. I've changed from Halides to LEDs, and have had this occur. Threw me for a loop. But it can happen form the lighting change.

 

[al*]

What I saw were very tiny brown specs that appeared to be moving.

If they were clearly visible and moving in a fast and uncontrolled manner you have dinoflagellates, not diatoms. Diatoms can't move on their own.

 

[EricTheRed]

If they were clearly visible and moving in a fast and uncontrolled manner you have dinoflagellates, not diatoms. Diatoms can't move on their own.

They were moving very, very slowly which in hindsight might be from me slightly and inadvertently vibrating the sample as I looked at it. I took a look at some dino videos and what I saw under the mag glass looks more like diatoms than dino.

 

[EricTheRed]

Only thing I have for this case would be:
If you've changed your lighting, and caused a higher dose of light. Diatoms is what it looks like to me also. I've changed from Halides to LEDs, and have had this occur. Threw me for a loop. But it can happen form the lighting change.

Nope, no new lights but when I cycled this tank I used dead rock and sand. Since I started with a sterile environment I wonder if it just took a while for diatoms to get into the tank and do their thing...?

For my own knowledge, I'm still wondering if what I heard was accurate, or not. I recently heard that you can't see the diatoms with your naked eye when they are alive and that they are in the water column. Then when they die their shells sink and cover everything giving the brown appearance. Then I found a paper that says the silica shells are clear and the organism is brown due to a chlorophyll type substance. So are the actual living diatoms the brown stuff on the rocks and sand?

 

[al*]

Yes, the living ones are brown - if they were transparent they wouldn't be able to catch much light for photosynthesis.
Some species are in the water column and others are benthic.

 

[Martyt1]

Not sure if youre running one or not but I added a GFO filter to my system and these little guys went completely away.. Just a thought

 

[EricTheRed]

Well that explains everything, thanks.

 

[Barryrey]

I have a very similar problem in my NC28. We're you able to determine exactly what it is (I read the entire post but was not clear) and if so what are you doing to eradicate it.

 

[NanaReefer]

I've had the same on going issue for the past 9 months. Some days it goes away. Then it's back. At first I thought it was my sand. I started my tank with 60# of CaribSea Fiji Pink Arag-ALive and 20# of non-live.
I can't find a cause or the cure
What if anything are you dosing? Food wise? I'm seeing an increase whenever I dose Reef Roids.

 

[EricTheRed]

Hey guys, everyone seems to think it is diatoms and even had me convinced as such despite knowing it wasn't, but the one thing I can't figure out is why it comes and goes with the lights. In the morning there is nothing there then by mid-afternoon the entire sb is covered. I know diatoms are photosynthetic so at first I thought they were reproducing at an insane rate when the lights came on but that doesn't explain how they disappear over night. Yes, I have a cuc, but I see NOTHING on the sb late at night eating it....it just goes away. Like a bacteria as I originally described. Since this post I've had other people via my local forum contact me about the same issue. nothing anyone does around here seems to get it to go away. I'm going to see if it will run it's course and if not I'll, reluctantly, run biopellets and try to starve it out. My phosphates are 0.02 and my trates are < 1% but who knows, maybe 0/0 will do something...