Diatom filter for treating external parasites?

[Humblefish]

I have 630 gallons total volume and am going to be adding another 460 gallons in a few months. Do you think the Hayward EC50AC would be a good choice to get to hook up with my system? I was thinking about getting that and using a Jebao CDP20000 pump to run it in the sump. That is advertised at 5,283 Gph.

@robert

 

[robert]

I hate to answer a question in a thread to a pointer to another thread, but you might find some of this might help you in your design. You ideally want a 40gpm pump with high head as DE filters by their nature provide significant resistance to flow - especially as they run - the EC40 is an extended cycle filter with the ability to coat and recoat DE on the filter with a mechanical bump of a handle. This means a single charge lasts much longer and the unit can run much longer between flushes.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/de-filters-use-design-and-implementation.536965/

 

[Monkeytank]

Thanks!

 

[MnFish1]

However, I do feel if a diatom filter is capable of eradicating velvet then results on that should be pretty clear. IME; velvet is a devastating disease that most fish are incapable of managing via their natural immune system in a closed system. And symptoms of velvet do not hide themselves like ich can. If a fish has velvet, it's pretty obvious. I also would not base any "conclusions" on just one experiment, one fish. I would test multiple times to see if results are duplicated, one way or the other. And document everything with pics in this thread.

The way to do it (I think) would be to have healthy fish in a tank #1, 2, 3

Into tank one - run a diatomaceous earth filter and nothing else.
Into tank 2 - run a diatomaceous earth filter and add a fish with KNOWN active velvet.
Into tank 3 - Add a fish with KNOWN active velvet.

I would not try to 'treat' active velvet with DE filter - in other words the goal would be to prevent velvet in the newly exposed fish. JMHO - I think its interesting

 

[robert]

The way to do it (I think) would be to have healthy fish in a tank #1, 2, 3

Into tank one - run a diatomaceous earth filter and nothing else.
Into tank 2 - run a diatomaceous earth filter and add a fish with KNOWN active velvet.
Into tank 3 - Add a fish with KNOWN active velvet.

I would not try to 'treat' active velvet with DE filter - in other words the goal would be to prevent velvet in the newly exposed fish. JMHO - I think its interesting

Documented and reproducible -
What if I told you that one of the earliest marine biologists to work with marine velvet, a PHD with dozens of published papers on marine parasitology and the director of a large public aquarium pioneered the use of DE filters in his facility, beat us all to it - decades ago.
His name is Dr. Adrian Lawler - much of his stuff was very scientific in nature but he wrote articles and answered questions for the hobbyist.
He had so much reliable - reproducible - information and practical and practicable advice. He was the one who came up with the "molly test".

I really really hope people take the time to read it, and search out more of his stuff.

https://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/a_lawler_111697.html

 

[robert]

Apparently the link at the head of this post has aged off the internet - Its a good read so here is a link brought to you by the wayback machine:

Dr. Lawler provides a strong recommendation for the regular use of diatom filters. This article is a must-read for the serious aquarist looking for the best filter technique to use in fish keeping. As a bonus, learn the longest word in the English language!​

https://web.archive.org/web/2015070...articles/management/Lawler_Diatomfilters.html

 

[Paul B]

I actually remember reading that in 1984 and may be where I got the idea to use a diatom filter with copper to treat parasites.
Quote:
One can avoid problems with this parasite by using the treatment of your choice (freshwater, copper, various chemicals) as a treatment to dislodge trophonts prior to putting fish on display, and THEN keeping a diatomaceous earth filter on the tank to suck out infective dinospores coming from trophonts/tomonts swallowed and passed. DE filters will also help fish wounds heal faster, decrease other types of free-swimming infective stages of other parasites, and decrease water-borne bacteria, etc.
End Quote

I have been recommending this course of action since the 80s but most people today don't even know what a diatom filter is and prefer to use more "Modern" technological treatments that I feel are more invasive. Copper and a diatom filter will cure just about anything as long as you do it fast enough.

 

[Monkeytank]

I'm curious if this might help end RTN issues for SPS when they happen because of Vibrio. It appears that is the cause for it some times. It seems like it should, as their cells are curved rods 0.5 μm across and 1.5 to 3.0 μm long, single or strung together in S-shapes or spirals. It might not save a particular piece, but could reduce the bacteria and keep it from spreading to other corals.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

There are about 1 million bacteria per militer of sea water and about 10 times that in the number of viruses in the same amount of sea water. This gives you an indication of the ability of marine fish and invertebrates to both consume and resist this soup of potential attackers. So with that evidence how should we manage our aquariums properly? There must exist some competing communities of bacteria, viruses, and protozoa that help the fish and inverts survive and exploit their environment. We try to manage the quantity of these organisms by D.E., U.V., Ozone, and other biological and mechanical filtration means.

If we understood the complexity of those communities we could provide better treatment protocols and find ways to advantage good bacteria and viruses over disease causing ones. Perhaps it is just an imbalance in certain communities of organisms that leads to disease in our aquariums?

Source of information for bacteria and virus count in Sea water, Eric Collins, Word press archives.

 

[Michael Benz]

Robert, Can you share more information on how you modified the Hayward EC40AC filter and what feed pump would your recommend for a 450G SPS/reef system? I have active crypto in my tank since I added a achilles 2 years ago but no fatalities yet. Thank you, Mike

 

[Humblefish]

Robert, Can you share more information on how you modified the Hayward EC40AC filter and what feed pump would your recommend for a 450G SPS/reef system? I have active crypto in my tank since I added a achilles 2 years ago but no fatalities yet. Thank you, Mike

@robert will send him an alert

 

[HomeSlizzice]

The way to do it (I think) would be to have healthy fish in a tank #1, 2, 3

Into tank one - run a diatomaceous earth filter and nothing else.
Into tank 2 - run a diatomaceous earth filter and add a fish with KNOWN active velvet.
Into tank 3 - Add a fish with KNOWN active velvet.

I would not try to 'treat' active velvet with DE filter - in other words the goal would be to prevent velvet in the newly exposed fish. JMHO - I think its interesting

I agree I think this could be easily and affordably be done with a set of 3x 10 or 20 gallon tanks and using the Marineland Magnum filter. @Humblefish have any plans?

 

[Humblefish]

I agree I think this could be easily and affordably be done with a set of 3x 10 or 20 gallon tanks and using the Marineland Magnum filter. @Humblefish have any plans?

Not so long as I'm running a Fish QT business. I'm also conducting experiments with Chloroquine and H2O2. 30+ tanks is enough right now.

 

[HomeSlizzice]

Not so long as I'm running a Fish QT business. I'm also conducting experiments with Chloroquine and H2O2. 30+ tanks is enough right now.

30+ Tanks! Dang that's a lot!

I'm curious to see the results of your experiments. Best of luck!

 

[pastor dustin]

If the de filter works because it filters anything larger than 2 microns, would a brs reactor with a 1 micron sediment filter work with no de added?

Thanks

 

[robert]

If the de filter works because it filters anything larger than 2 microns, would a brs reactor with a 1 micron sediment filter work with no de added?

Thanks

yes they will work and I have used them. Filtering down to that size will clog the micron filters fairly rapidly. Faster or slower depending on water quality and flow rate. After they've been run and clogged, they won't rinse clean, so they need to be soaked in bleach to clean and thoroughly dried before reuse. you'd probably need at least three filters - one running - one soaking - and one drying to keep it going for any length of time.

 

[pastor dustin]

Thank you, didn’t know if it was just a micron thing or if the DE chemical make up did something more than just filter.

 

[reefwiser]

Generally you have a micron filter cartridge then you add the DE to the water and the filter sucks up the DE and it coats the Micron filter cartridge. That is how a DE filter works..

 

[pastor dustin]

Thanks, thought I would try it since I already have the equipment and filter, before I went out and purchased new equipment. Only looking at running periodically so clogging my not be a problem.

 

[Feet4Fish]

Just a thought for any wine who would like to use this technique of parasite control. If you are stocking a new tank for much less money you could employ a Marineland Magnum internal polisher in you QT tank. Filter is about $45 and with DE powder you are in this set up for $60-80. For bigger applications a Vortex, larger pleated cartridge or a pool filter would make sense but for a small application the magnum has potential.