Dino and Cyano

[m0jjen]

Okay. Im on the brink of becoming a madman, Chuck Norris roundhose kicking the tank and jumping on the remains.

Background:

Mid summer i got some cyano, i id it as a non spirulina and treated it with H2O2. Big mistake, i guess.. The outcome of this was that most of the cyano went brown but didnt go away without manual removal. Anyway, after 14 days i started adding bacteria (AF Pro Bio S) and the cyano vanished. (yey)

About 2 days after the cyano went away dino came along with a vengence set to avenge its fallen comrad. I start reading up on this since i've never had it before and did some mesurements:

KH Ca and Mag all had rised quite the bit:

KH 7.3 > 8.9
Ca 390 > 450
Mg 1310 > 1450

This tells me something happened when dosing h2o2 which the corals really didnt like. Anyway! I started manually removing the dino along with cleaning filterpads and whatnot daily without results, about a week into this new challange i gave into using chemicals and tested "DinoXal" with moderate results (dino didnt appear just as much). After 4 days of dinoxal dosing dino got ticked and made their "one call", guess who they called?

CYANO. So here i am, mayhem in the tank..

I have no nutrients to speak of (never had, done 4 ICDP tests with trion tince february and never had po4 above 0.02). NO3 just recently went from undetectable to 2 which aint much in my eyes.

From reading it seems like people are doing bleach dosing (I wont be doing that). No more chemical buisness after the h2o2..

Any tips besides the go to "black out" is more than welcome.

 

[Tahoe61]

It's extremely frustrating, I know 1st hand.
Is there another thread where you have posted an image of the problem growth?
I have successfully beaten Dino without additives, you have to starve it out. Adding more bacteria, or carbons sounds good to those marketing the products but there is no easy solution.

What worked for me:

pH elevation using kalk.
No water changes during treatment, no addition of amino acids.
Manual cleaning every day with a turkey baster and cleaning mechanical filtration after the debris settles.
And yes a 4 day black out with a reduced photoperiod until the Dino strands no longer developed.

 

[bios]

Above mentioned is the only way
I add something, better if you transfer animals in the sump light the sump and 10 days of blackout in your tank
Only feed fishes and filter water coming from the tank with active carbon.

 

[m0jjen]

It's extremely frustrating, I know 1st hand.
Is there another thread where you have posted an image of the problem growth?
I have successfully beaten Dino without additives, you have to starve it out. Adding more bacteria, or carbons sounds good to those marketing the products but there is no easy solution.

What worked for me:

pH elevation using kalk.
No water changes during treatment, no addition of amino acids.
Manual cleaning every day with a turkey baster and cleaning mechanical filtration after the debris settles.
And yes a 4 day black out with a reduced photoperiod until the Dino strands no longer developed.

The kalk usage is abit hard since i dont have any controlled method to mesure PH, dont have an apex or anything thats monitoring. Best i can get is a sailfert test more or less. Apart from that im going all of the above already. The blackout will be my last resort!

Above mentioned is the only way
I add something, better if you transfer animals in the sump light the sump and 10 days of blackout in your tank
Only feed fishes and filter water coming from the tank with active carbon.

My sump dont have enough space :/

 

[dankreef]

Just do consistent water changes. Run small amount gfo and carbon and starve it out. Don't do any blackout stuff or any aminos. Aminos or over dosing is #1 cause of cyano. Just keep it stable more neutrients out than in and it will go away in a month or so

 

[Fredrik]

Just do consistent water changes. Run small amount gfo and carbon and starve it out. Don't do any blackout stuff or any aminos. Aminos or over dosing is #1 cause of cyano. Just keep it stable more neutrients out than in and it will go away in a month or so

Ye it probably is due to aminos here. Regarding wc, most people advice against it for dinos?

 

[m0jjen]

This is where im at now. I have some dino left, mainly the long brown strings on some weaker corals. The cyano is litterly everywhere. Comes back in a day even if i suck it all out.

Today i tested my water and it resulted in a nutritional value of 5 ppm No3 and 0.043 po4. These have raised from 0/0 to these values over the past 2 weeks or so. Just afew days i reduced feeding to half (from twice to once a day).

Im guessing this nutrition is leeching from the sandbed or something since i litterly have no microalgae and havent touched my glas for atleast 2 weeks.

Im currently not doing any WC at all as previously stated. I dose a small amount of Aquaforest components 123+. I also do the NP-pro along with Pro Bio S in the morning.

Seeing how nutrition is rising it might be connected to a loaded sandbed? I've ordered a triton ICDP test and hope it gives me some info on whats wrong. Im looking into getting a reactor and running carbon / zeo mix and phos remover from aquaforest.

Ill also switch away from the probiotic salt since its organicly loaded and should feed the cyano. Im gonna get a bucket of reef salt this friday. Coming to think of it my problems might have started when i went from reef salt to probiotic.

Can anyone give me some input on this? Am I on the right track? @Perry You are a veteran in the AF quarters. What do you think?

 

[gashunk]

since it started when you switched to af probiotic is your protien skimmer tuned in? what sump are you using? i was talking to the guys at af at macna n they said if you dont have a good one of both that its not recommended by them to start using the product until after if that makes any sense

 

[Fredrik]

since it started when you switched to af probiotic is your protien skimmer tuned in? what sump are you using? i was talking to the guys at af at macna n they said if you dont have a good one of both that its not recommended by them to start using the product until after if that makes any sense

Deltec sc1456 specced for 1000l in a 400l system. Sump i a 80L diy

 

[m0jjen]

I can also add that i get a nice thick skimmate.

 

[m0jjen]

Starting to get pretty desperat. 3 acro colonies are starting to STN bottoms up, Really slow. My KH MG and CA are all stable and inline with AF salts.

Nutritional values are stabalizing at 0.04 po4 and 5 ppm kno3. Apart from this im Clueless. I have dino and cyano. I run GAC and Po4 remover (half dose, just added). I havent changed any feeding regim.

A triton ICDP will come tomorrow but the results wont be in until next week. From today i will start doing 10% WC every day in hope of stabalizing and removing whatever fault is.

Any thoughts?

 

[bios]

Starting to get pretty desperat. 3 acro colonies are starting to STN bottoms up, Really slow. My KH MG and CA are all stable and inline with AF salts.

Nutritional values are stabalizing at 0.04 po4 and 5 ppm kno3. Apart from this im Clueless. I have dino and cyano. I run GAC and Po4 remover (half dose, just added). I havent changed any feeding regim.

A triton ICDP will come tomorrow but the results wont be in until next week. From today i will start doing 10% WC every day in hope of stabalizing and removing whatever fault is.

Any thoughts?

How old is your tank?

 

[m0jjen]

How old is your tank?

Its started in december 2015 when i upgraded from 50g to 90g. The LR is 3 years in my possesion and have always been doing okay nutrientwise.

Only thing new when i upgraded was all the equipment and sand.

 

[bios]

Cyano as you know are 3bilions years old and they are so perfect that no need to change nothing during so long time
We dont know much about them,excluse petrol corporations since discover that they can produce diesel by rna mutation but.....otherway what is interesting for us is that they are
Autotrophic and eterotrophic
So they can survive in absence of light and in absence of nutrients
But not during both conditions.
Following is only my opinion
They apears in our tank after a change sometimes imperceptible
That change caused death of something live in our tank algae bacterias or our corals they start to feed by them and after ,they be able to kill algae and corals especially sps by suffocation, and continue their life cycle.
Some one use chemical products h202 chemiclean and others
But ...yes they act to stop theyr growt otherway create condition to dye for other inhabitants we want in our tanks and shall provide other nutrients to cyano
So.....the possible way are two
Blackout an iperfiltration of water
Or restore equilibrium condition in our tank but necessary more time and possible somelosses

 

[m0jjen]

No idea how relevant it is but the tank smells pretty bad, its not only the skimmer. Cant describe it with anything besides a rotten smell.

 

[bios]

Will tell you my experience with them
5 Months ago by an helycoeres crysus it sleep under sand and one night rocks fall down piece of sps everywere and some lps under the rocks ..save what remains and add some rocks from the sump to the tank
Few days cyano explosion but more over the rocks i take from sump suppose the flora over them first to be attacked by cyano
Now what i did
Increase flow by 2 more pumps for the corners of tank
Add active carbon ,great dose changing it every 4 days
Increase skimmer action
And then use those products
A balance 50ml every 100lt once
Cyano clean one drop every 100lt every night
Dont know if those was really efficients products but only i know they do not fight cyano chemically simple restore equilibrium in tank so i decide to use
After ten days cyanos low then before but they was also in my tank
Use again dosage of a balance 50ml every 100lt and lights from 10ours to 7
after2 weeks cyano erase
Dont know if was products or natural equilibrium of the tank
This was only my experience

 

[m0jjen]

Heard alot about a-balance and cyano clean aswell. Might give it a go if i cant get rid of the cyano in another way.

 

[bios]

As i say probably was filtration by active carbon and skimmer activity but never find others products thats do not have chemical action so use those
I also dont believe in them as way to paradise but think something they have to apport to bacterias in my tank and increase their action

 

[m0jjen]

This is what im dealing with (bad borrowed microscope)

These are dead from my expermientation

@twilliard can you ID this?

 

[G8trBait16]

I started getting GHA, I made the mistake to use AF probiotic in 2 - 25g water changes, instead of just reg AF reef salt. The probiotic salt has aminos and vitamins in the salt, therefore it was just feeding GHA more. I did 2 more 25g water changes with the reef salt last Thursday and Saturday. Will be doing another one today, but the GHA has started to fade away. When I get back to ULN I will start on the probiotic salt again. Just will be dosing in half quantities on the Aminos, V, B, E.