Dino - Time to go to war

[rockstarta78]

If you have had a low po4 and no3 than micro diversity is also lacking . Seeing hair algea back is a good sign. Restoring the missing diversity will also help. @mcarroll is also a big help and a wonderful resource

@mcarroll is a bad man, he didn't let me quit the hobby last time. All kidding aside, he's always been a great help. I have done the manual dosing of NO3 and PO4 for over 3 weeks. But towards the end my patience was running low. However, I should admit, when the GHA started coming back, 70% of my rocks cleared off Dino. So yes, manual dosing is an excellent solution, but you have to be on top of this everyday. If you miss a day, technically you'll have to restart. At the end I just couldn't keep up with it.

 

[rockstarta78]

What type of dinos are you dealing with?

I have fought dinos for a long time and am just now having some success. As far as peroxide dosing, I went as high as 3ml/10gal twice a day m, only things I lost were my 2 black longspine urchins and cleaner shrimp. Unfortunately, dinos were on the list of things not impacted. The worst thing for my tank I dosed was metro. Don't know if I got a bad batch or what but I lost some fish and most of my remaining sps. Blackouts, from 3 days to as long as 8 days never had any lasting effects.

As far as what has been working; I upsized my UV from a 57 watt to 114 watt unit and plumbed it into my return piping (on a 270 gal tank). After turning it on I started blasting my rocks with powerhead each night after lights out. Within a week i could find no trace of living Ostreopsis, Coolia or Prorocentrum dinos. Still had 2 species of amphidinium though that were alive and well.

I have been using Dino-X for the remaining dinos and am having success. I tested it first on a slide and then a couple drops in my sample cup and the Amphidinium stopped moving right away. I treated my 50g tank I moved some corals into (8 doses over 16 days) with no ill effects (no fish in the tank though) and it took care of the dinos. I have just started dosing in my main tank, will be doing 3rd dose tonight. I am already seeing significant improvement and so far no negative impacts.

Just sharing my experiences in hopes it helps.

So this is the UV (9watt version) I am using right now. My tank is a 40B, with 20L sump, after displacement my total water volume is ~50gl. I have the UV running on the DT as I plan on taking it offline once I am done (if I am done). As mentioned, I am still doing H2O2 dosing. I tried to put the dino under a toy microscope, I couldn't tell what I was seeing, and couldn't take a picture either. I will try again. So I don't know if I have Ostreopsis or Coolia or something totally different. So this is how it's going now

3 days blackout + UV + Blasting rocks/sand + H2O2

after 3 days I am doing a water change on Sunday (I know I am not supposed to, but I want trace of fluco gone from my water)

After water change: UV + Blasting rocks/sand + H2O2 (1ml/gl)
if 1ml does not work, I will go to 2ml/gl

NOW, DinoX ........ I am not going to lie, this thing scares me. I would hate to kill my fishes. And if I want to catch them, I might as well breakdown my tank. I doubt with the current rockscape I can capture the purple firefish or the Yellow watchman. BUT if all else fails, I may resort to dosing DinoX but not until I have had moved my clowns to a QT. Those are my wife's fishes, since the kids picked those. So I can't risk ticking her off.

 

[IvanW]

I did not use any UV, I have been told that h202 can exacerbate the situation.
This is what it looked like under a micro scope

 

[rockstarta78]

Unless I am wrong they don't look like Ostreopsis. Do you know which strain those are?

 

[IvanW]

Above is what it looked like before treatment,below after treatment.

Tank with plastic wrap.

 

[IvanW]

No idea what strain,if anyone is able to id it please let me know.

 

[jd371]

NOW, DinoX ........ I am not going to lie, this thing scares me. I would hate to kill my fishes. And if I want to catch them, I might as well breakdown my tank. I doubt with the current rockscape I can capture the purple firefish or the Yellow watchman. BUT if all else fails, I may resort to dosing DinoX but not until I have had moved my clowns to a QT. Those are my wife's fishes, since the kids picked those. So I can't risk ******* her off.

What I heard about Dino-X is that you have to be sure about your tank volume to dose the correct amount. I think some people might have run into problems because of over dosing the Dino-X.

 

[rockstarta78]

What I heard about Dino-X is that you have to be sure about your tank volume to dose the correct amount. I think some people might have run into problems because of over dosing the Dino-X.

Does it make a huge difference if I slightly under dose? Say, instead of dosing for 50gl I dose for 45gl. Will that work? Or does it have to be extremely accurate?

 

[sfin52]

So this is the UV (9watt version) I am using right now. My tank is a 40B, with 20L sump, after displacement my total water volume is ~50gl. I have the UV running on the DT as I plan on taking it offline once I am done (if I am done). As mentioned, I am still doing H2O2 dosing. I tried to put the dino under a toy microscope, I couldn't tell what I was seeing, and couldn't take a picture either. I will try again. So I don't know if I have Ostreopsis or Coolia or something totally different. So this is how it's going now

3 days blackout + UV + Blasting rocks/sand + H2O2

after 3 days I am doing a water change on Sunday (I know I am not supposed to, but I want trace of fluco gone from my water)

After water change: UV + Blasting rocks/sand + H2O2 (1ml/gl)
if 1ml does not work, I will go to 2ml/gl

NOW, DinoX ........ I am not going to lie, this thing scares me. I would hate to kill my fishes. And if I want to catch them, I might as well breakdown my tank. I doubt with the current rockscape I can capture the purple firefish or the Yellow watchman. BUT if all else fails, I may resort to dosing DinoX but not until I have had moved my clowns to a QT. Those are my wife's fishes, since the kids picked those. So I can't risk ******* her off.

What I've understand is that removing the fish and adding them back in can restart the Dino. you will transfer some of the them to the qt.

 

[Africangrey]

You got to give vibrant a try, I had a bad case of osteo which covered every inch of my rock and sand bed with waving string and bubbles. dosed 2x for 2 wks everything everything cleared and has been like that for ever since, come to think of it what caused dino formation for me was imbalance of nutrient in my system. undetectable PO4 Hanna (ULR) and 25ppm of NO3

 

[Beardo]

So this is the UV (9watt version) I am using right now. My tank is a 40B, with 20L sump, after displacement my total water volume is ~50gl. I have the UV running on the DT as I plan on taking it offline once I am done (if I am done). As mentioned, I am still doing H2O2 dosing. I tried to put the dino under a toy microscope, I couldn't tell what I was seeing, and couldn't take a picture either. I will try again. So I don't know if I have Ostreopsis or Coolia or something totally different. So this is how it's going now

3 days blackout + UV + Blasting rocks/sand + H2O2

after 3 days I am doing a water change on Sunday (I know I am not supposed to, but I want trace of fluco gone from my water)

After water change: UV + Blasting rocks/sand + H2O2 (1ml/gl)
if 1ml does not work, I will go to 2ml/gl

NOW, DinoX ........ I am not going to lie, this thing scares me. I would hate to kill my fishes. And if I want to catch them, I might as well breakdown my tank. I doubt with the current rockscape I can capture the purple firefish or the Yellow watchman. BUT if all else fails, I may resort to dosing DinoX but not until I have had moved my clowns to a QT. Those are my wife's fishes, since the kids picked those. So I can't risk ******* her off.

If you are able to itentify them, it would really help since how you fight them depends on the species. I always heard this but didn't realize how true it was until I recently broke down and got a scope.

UV is effective with species that enter the water column at night, but won't do much for those that don't such as some of the amphidinium species. I personally was doubtful about UV until I upsized and saw success. With your unit you will need pretty slow flow for it to be effective. It may be undersized but I think it works better how you are using it in your display than when my first unit was in my sump. Also, the blackout will keep them in the water column (assuming the type enters the water column) so should have better contact with the UV.

As far as Dino-X, I don't believe it is that effective on Ostreopsis and similar species (from what I read as I never tested on those), but worked for me on amphidinium. I would only use it on something I seen success on. I believe urchins and some inverts are most at risk when using it. Dosing does need to be precise. Directions say 5ml/26gals dosed every 2 days but you can go to 6ml/26 gallons. It would be better to slightly underestimate your volume instead of overestimate. Like you said in the other post dose for 45 gallons instead of 50. I hear you on keeping the family happy, my wife is most concerned about the tuxedo urchins and the serpent star, go figure. I will let you know if I have any casualties.

I wish you luck in your battle. I've been dealing with them since January of 2015 so I know how much they suck.

 

[rockstarta78]

If you are able to itentify them, it would really help since how you fight them depends on the species. I always heard this but didn't realize how true it was until I recently broke down and got a scope.

UV is effective with species that enter the water column at night, but won't do much for those that don't such as some of the amphidinium species. I personally was doubtful about UV until I upsized and saw success. With your unit you will need pretty slow flow for it to be effective. It may be undersized but I think it works better how you are using it in your display than when my first unit was in my sump. Also, the blackout will keep them in the water column (assuming the type enters the water column) so should have better contact with the UV.

As far as Dino-X, I don't believe it is that effective on Ostreopsis and similar species (from what I read as I never tested on those), but worked for me on amphidinium. I would only use it on something I seen success on. I believe urchins and some inverts are most at risk when using it. Dosing does need to be precise. Directions say 5ml/26gals dosed every 2 days but you can go to 6ml/26 gallons. It would be better to slightly underestimate your volume instead of overestimate. Like you said in the other post dose for 45 gallons instead of 50. I hear you on keeping the family happy, my wife is most concerned about the tuxedo urchins and the serpent star, go figure. I will let you know if I have any casualties.

I wish you luck in your battle. I've been dealing with them since January of 2015 so I know how much they suck.

I am running the UV with a Cobalt Aquatics Power Head - MJ-600 pump which is rated for 160GPH. But I have throttled it down even more. If I had to guess I'd say I am running 100gph.

And you are absolutely right, I really should try to get an ID. This dang toy microscope I have is worthless. But I will try again this week. I am really really really hoping my current plan works out as I really don't want to go the DinoX route. But if nothing works, I may end up biting the bullet and go that route.

 

[IvanW]

How exactly do you identify them?

 

[rockstarta78]

From what I understand, and @mcarroll can explain way better, I think it has to do with the shape you see under the scope.

 

[Beardo]

How exactly do you identify them?

Comparing pictures and videos to online images. Had @taricha confirm my id and assist with an id on 1 I couldn't figure out.
Here is 1 site I use.
http://botany.si.edu/references/dinoflag/taxa.htm

Also searching google images for dinoflagellates will get you started. If you see a species that looks similar search that species as there a many sub species.

Yours look like a Prorocentrum sp. to me

 

[taricha]

Yours look like a Prorocentrum sp. to me

Prorocentrum indeed!

 

[IvanW]

I just stumbled on a website that might be helpful. www.algaeid.com. From his photographs it looks like Amphidinium. They both look similar.

 

[Beardo]

I just stumbled on a website that might be helpful. www.algaeid.com. From his photographs it looks like Amphidinium. They both look similar.

That's a great site as well. The amphidinium that look similar also have distinct differences. Here is a picture of 1 from my tank, you can see how the end is different.

 

[rockstarta78]

How do you guys get just the algae under the scope? Mine is wrapped around sand grain. And that's the other reason I can't get an ID. If I try to remove it from a grain of sand it gets somewhere stuck under my nail or something. I can't get this crap under the scope. I tried several times, then I am looking at nothing. ;Facepalm

 

[IvanW]

rockstrata78 I hope you don't think we are hijacking your thread, I feel that this is such a prolific problem that the more info that is put out there the better.