Dino - Time to go to war

[taricha]

My Lawnmower Blenny is a hero, grazes algae,rock,glass surfaces all day. Happily eats whatever else I feed. Survived through Dino outbreaks, and a mass extinction when summer AC failure got the water to 90-95 degrees.

Mine is much less picky grazer than a tang, but clearly individuals greatly vary.

 

[rockstarta78]

Ok I will do a 3 day blackout starting tonight. Do you suggest I do a water change this weekend? Last water change was last weekend. If it's not dino, and it's not diatom (it won't blow off) I can't figure out what this is. I do see clumped up sand which is why I am leaning towards dino. Unless there's another type of algae that I am not aware of.

Also, if you look at the first 2 picture, it seems like Dino is over taking the GHA or I could be wrong. Camera makes the picture looks greener than it really is.

I am still debating on bare bottom. 1. I am not a big fan, 2. worried about my sand sifting star, nesssarius, and my goby. I may just take out the sand and give it a good wash than put it back in.

So what is your suggestion on the h2o2 dosing? Should I just rinse the sand with RODI water and let it dry than put it back in? Currently I am dosing the h2o2 after the lights turn off. By the time lights turn back on, there's usually 10-12 hours difference between dosing and lights turning on.

 

[brandon429]

good details for sure. in my opinion, since you are dealing with near takedown frustration, any animals that are sandbed dependent must go/come back after the scourge is beaten. to me its the least loss you can do to recover from the about to leave hobby mode that's my war mode lol but in seeing your tank its not that bad IMO

we have lots of tanks that look like that/topically in pics though I didn't see any microscopy on this one

having access to that sand means no repository for either fuel nor the offenders at least in that zone

there very well may be less invasive ways of battle, heck Vibrant alone might nick that stuff. The reason we resort to sandbedding is because its chem free, we get good skip cycle results and clean rebuilds off it, and just in case it doesn't work, the action of making a sandbed clean didn't hurt and still helps by being a cleaner zone anyway.

your invader didn't seem to be cast all over the tank and glass like id expect, good signs in my opinion.

The rewashing of the sandbed is ok too, those animals can go back into a clean bed without harm but in the end any type of animal that burrows and could die out of sight isn't really fit for a war tank, they're what come back after we win imo just brainstorming

 

[mcarroll]

Since it's a 40g I know I don't have the room for a tang, which would really help with the algae. Now I am debating if I should risk it and add a purple tang with 2 wrasses and increase the bio load.

I would not increase your bio-load until you're well past this. Keep focusing on basics and think snails!!!! Much better grazers than fish anyway. Fish are picky like humans. Snails are physically built for nothing but algae eating. Unless your algae is toxic, they're gonna eat it.

(No tangs at all....that's a tiny 36" tank!!! )

 

[rockstarta78]

I wasn't going to go get the tang.......it's tempting tho with all these crap in the tank. I am going to order more cerith snails. I have enough crabs that do not eat the hair algae. Ordered Vibrant, which is what I am trying next along with daily dose of h2o2.

 

[rockstarta78]

I've been sick for last few days. Out with bronchitis, so needless to say the tank has been neglected for last few days. However, I have kept up with h202 dosing and also ordered vibrant which should be here tomorrow. Once I get over this stupid bronchitis, I'll start the vibrant treatment along with h2o2 and UV. The UV is currently running 24/7 I don't know if I have noticed any difference in the algae growth. Wondering if my UV is actually working. The lights on and water is flowing....... who knows!

 

[IvanW]

I had a really interesting chat with both Julian Sprung and Sanjay Joshi over this past weekend about this Dinoflagellate problem that I am having as well. Both agreed no water changes as they are not sure as to what in the water causes the algae to survive. Sanjay said leave it and they will eventually burn themselves out when they can't get any more of what they need to survive. Both agreed that raising Phosphates,Nitrates and Ph are not a bad thing. Both said that they would be reluctant to add any type of chemicals to fight it. Julian said no UV as it could kill the beneficial bacteria that is trying to establish itself to help control Dino's and siphoning some of it out could also help. Both agreed that it is a long arduous battle and time is what is needed,that you can't use whatever you decide to use for a week decide it is not working and jump to the next thing.
That being said my course of action, I am raising the pH on a daily basis using Kalk 3 teaspoons directly into the sump where there is high flow. I have also reduced the amount of Chaeto which has been growing out of control,I am also going to reduce light intensity in the refugium. I am going to start dosing Sodium Nitrate and Potassium Phosphate as needed to bring up those two levels and will stick with that and see what happens. My tank has only been up and running for about 15 months so it is relatively new in the scheme of things and both those guys said it is probably still part of cycling.Hope this helps.

 

[filbie70]

Following, my NO3 PO4 are at 0 and I have a rust colored sand bed. I have an order of Fluconazole and Vibrant in the air presently to dose for an outbreak of GHA that I am addressing. Hopeful Linh in 2-3 weeks I'll have crystal clear water when I am able to get back to running carbon and my UV.

 

[rockstarta78]

I had a really interesting chat with both Julian Sprung and Sanjay Joshi over this past weekend about this Dinoflagellate problem that I am having as well. Both agreed no water changes as they are not sure as to what in the water causes the algae to survive. Sanjay said leave it and they will eventually burn themselves out when they can't get any more of what they need to survive. Both agreed that raising Phosphates,Nitrates and Ph are not a bad thing. Both said that they would be reluctant to add any type of chemicals to fight it. Julian said no UV as it could kill the beneficial bacteria that is trying to establish itself to help control Dino's and siphoning some of it out could also help. Both agreed that it is a long arduous battle and time is what is needed,that you can't use whatever you decide to use for a week decide it is not working and jump to the next thing.
That being said my course of action, I am raising the pH on a daily basis using Kalk 3 teaspoons directly into the sump where there is high flow. I have also reduced the amount of Chaeto which has been growing out of control,I am also going to reduce light intensity in the refugium. I am going to start dosing Sodium Nitrate and Potassium Phosphate as needed to bring up those two levels and will stick with that and see what happens. My tank has only been up and running for about 15 months so it is relatively new in the scheme of things and both those guys said it is probably still part of cycling.Hope this helps.

I would like to see the outcome of your regiment. Mind sharing some current pictures? We can get an understanding how bad things are with your tank. Mine currently is in the same situation. I have been running UV for over 2 weeks now and been dosing h2o2 for 2 weeks. Honestly, I have not noticed any difference. My chaeto is growing like crazy.

 

[rockstarta78]

Following, my NO3 PO4 are at 0 and I have a rust colored sand bed. I have an order of Fluconazole and Vibrant in the air presently to dose for an outbreak of GHA that I am addressing. Hopeful Linh in 2-3 weeks I'll have crystal clear water when I am able to get back to running carbon and my UV.

Rust colored sand could also mean diatom. How old is the tank? Are you sure it's Dino and not Diatom?

 

[filbie70]

I'm hoping my nitrate increase from the GHA die off will at least keep me battling one thing at a time and the Dino's will go away while I'm treating with Fluconazole.

You are raising pH? I was considering raising Mg to 1,400 vs pH. I'm right around 1,200 presently.

 

[filbie70]

Rust colored sand could also mean diatom. How old is the tank? Are you sure it's Dino and not Diatom?

I wasn't going to address the dino/diatom issue until after treat the GHA. So just following to plan attack once I get on the other side of the first issue. My sand was clean with nitrates elevated to 10. When I dropped to 0 to address GHA, my sand bed is now covered. My water parameters are perfect:

Alk: 10
Ca: 440
Mg: 1200
pH: 8.1-8.2
NO3: 0
PO4: 0

 

[rockstarta78]

I wasn't going to address the dino/diatom issue until after treat the GHA. So just following to plan attack once I get on the other side of the first issue. My sand was clean with nitrates elevated to 10. When I dropped to 0 to address GHA, my sand bed is now covered. My water parameters are perfect:

Alk: 10
Ca: 440
Mg: 1200
pH: 8.1-8.2
NO3: 0
PO4: 0

Seems like you have the perfect environment for Dino. Post a picture of your algae. If it's Dino, the battle is way more challenging than GHA. I am treating my tank like an experiment right now.

 

[kenniole]

Good luck man!

I had the worse case battling against GHA and Dinos for at least 2 months.. I tried everything!!!!!!! than one day I gave up and they gave up I've been crystal clear ever since... The only change I did prior to giving up was I took out a chemipure bag.

 

[rockstarta78]

Good luck man!

I had the worse case battling against GHA and Dinos for at least 2 months.. I tried everything!!!!!!! than one day I gave up and they gave up I've been crystal clear ever since... The only change I did prior to giving up was I took out a chemipure bag.

Man I wish mine would give up like that. I gave up on the idea of I am ever going to be dino free.

 

[kenniole]

Man I wish mine would give up like that. I gave up on the idea of I am ever going to be dino free.

dude trust me... I was at my wit's end.. it's ugly and frustrating.. I seriously said screw it I'm done.. if it continues to happen i'll just restart the whole system and it gave up the very next day and within a couple of days it all went away

 

[rockstarta78]

On Saturday I dosed Vibrant for the first time. I am following their instruction and going 1ml/10gl twice a week. So the next dosing will be tomorrow. I am also running UV filter and dosing h2o2. Have not seen any improvement so far. I am at a loss. But I am going to wait it out until the 8oz Vibrant bottle runs out.

 

[rockstarta78]

Dosed Vibrant for the 2nd time last night. I did double the amount of dosing. Still not seeing any improvement whatsoever. Still dosing h2o2, running UV. Haven't done a water change yet. Things are looking bad actually. Vibrant has been dosed only twice so far. Going to vacuum the sand this weekend. Seems like I don't have free floating dino.

@mcarroll how can I tell if my UV is actually working? I see it running. but should it take 2+ weeks to see any improvement?

 

[rockstarta78]

So as if things couldn't get any worse. Now I've seen bubble algae on a snail as I was heading out to work. Hopefully I'll still see him when I get home so I can scrape it off him outside the tank before it starts spreading. At this point all I can say is ***

 

[Ashish Patel]

I had a really interesting chat with both Julian Sprung and Sanjay Joshi over this past weekend about this Dinoflagellate problem that I am having as well. Both agreed no water changes as they are not sure as to what in the water causes the algae to survive. Sanjay said leave it and they will eventually burn themselves out when they can't get any more of what they need to survive. Both agreed that raising Phosphates,Nitrates and Ph are not a bad thing. Both said that they would be reluctant to add any type of chemicals to fight it. Julian said no UV as it could kill the beneficial bacteria that is trying to establish itself to help control Dino's and siphoning some of it out could also help. Both agreed that it is a long arduous battle and time is what is needed,that you can't use whatever you decide to use for a week decide it is not working and jump to the next thing.
That being said my course of action, I am raising the pH on a daily basis using Kalk 3 teaspoons directly into the sump where there is high flow. I have also reduced the amount of Chaeto which has been growing out of control,I am also going to reduce light intensity in the refugium. I am going to start dosing Sodium Nitrate and Potassium Phosphate as needed to bring up those two levels and will stick with that and see what happens. My tank has only been up and running for about 15 months so it is relatively new in the scheme of things and both those guys said it is probably still part of cycling.Hope this helps.

This is great advice.. However, I respectfully disagree about the UV being turned off - UV is great when you blow of your rockwork of dinos and have them zapped, UV will not reduce nitrates and phosphates and food particles in a way that will have your beneficial critters suffer. I would say some negatives are evident but the positives are too great. IMO Your aquarium has to develop a natural defense where the beneficial organisms can out compete the bad. Doing too much too soon will likely cause the good organisms to perish and the dinos to flourish. I started my tank with dry rock only and 3 months in I eventually added aged LR so this rock could out compete any possible dino outbreaks.

Last week i did notice some snotty stuff with bubbles growing in a few areas. The only thing I had done differently for 3 days prior was let the window blind shine light into the tank so the back of the corals could receive some needed light. This totally fueled the dinos as my nutrients where already close to 0 and added daylight was enough to cause them to grow in a few areas. That day I suspected them I tested my phosphates they where at 0 (never tested lower than 0.01 prior). I blew the off the rocks and increased the flow to a 36Watt UV sterilizer, left the cyano and hair algae to flourish, increased flow to my chaeto/refugium, and reduced my skimmer usage by 50%. After 1 day my phosphates increase to 0.01, by day 2 went to 0.03. I have high turnover in my sump and dinos that where put into the water column never recovered and the few in my tank never regained their snotty appearance. I still had 1 lone dino survivor on the return nozzle which i just left there so I can take a picture - hopefully when i get home from work their is no issues

I am not worried about dinos at this point but did panic last week (and pray). I am fortunate to have so many people share their experience (Keith Reefbum being the biggest lesson learned), and allow me to setup my tank in a way that helps me recover if needed. Had i not seeded my tank with 40LB of 10+ year old LR I am sure I'd be considering a 3 day blackout at this point. I would advice anyone with algae problems to look for a natural solutions since any chemical solution is always temporary when dealing with nature