Dinos / diatoms ID

[bearman88]

perfect, thanks! so when i want to take a picture, just stick my phone on the eye piece and take a picture?

That's how I did mine in my post above. The video was shaky and hard to hold still. So yeah if you can find one with a phone holder that sounds useful!

 

[ScottB]

perfect, thanks! so when i want to take a picture, just stick my phone on the eye piece and take a picture?

Yes. Unless you have the hands of a surgeon you will find it challenging to keep the image steady. You can also use the zoom feature on your phone to get a larger image recorded. Video is best. Some shapes are similar, but the movement patterns are quite different and aid in identification.

I bought this phone cradle. It is better than nothing, but not great. Maybe look for one with better reviews.

 

[SeeFu]

man i can't get thise microscope to focus at all. any tips? I seems like there's some stuff stuck on the lens and I can't clean it off.

 

[ScottB]

man i can't get thise microscope to focus at all. any tips? I seems like there's some stuff stuck on the lens and I can't clean it off.

It takes trial & error in the beginning. Make sure the light is on. Try one of the sample slides first. Try the different power lenses. I also have some contaminant I have not managed to remove, but can still get good video.

 

[bearman88]

So a brief update, and I'll post a full one later. Since I last posted (2-3 weeks ago), here's what I've done:

1) Stopped water changes
2) Stopped skimmer
3) Stopped GFO reactor
4) Stopped filter sock changes
5) Stopped aerator pump
6) Increased temperature from 78 degrees to 82.5-83 over 2 weeks
7) Added an assortment of pods from algae barn
8) Increased feeding of mysis/reef roids/and phyto
9) Added 2 lbs of live rock in display tank
10) Added lawnmower blenny to help with GHA and up bio load

The tank just reached 82.5+ degrees a couple days ago, so no signs of improvement yet. Since all the above steps, the dinos seem to have gotten slightly worse, spreading to the rocks (they come off with a turkey baster spraying the rocks).

We'll see how the increased temperatures impact them over the next few days.

Next step is to try a 3 day black out + siphoning into filter sock. I don't want to suck out too many pods from the sandbed.

I may have to try dosing bleach, or look into the silica dosing/diatom route again.

I will report my parameters, which I've been testing once or twice a week. As of 10/25 phosphate was .06 and nitrate was .10.

I also will post another microscope observation to make sure these are large amphidiums (spelling) and not osp. or another type. Open to any suggestions - thanks!

 

[Reefer5640]

So I meant to post this a while ago. This is what I do every time I get Dino’s on one of my tanks. I’ve had it a good handful of times now and have been successful at getting through it every time I followed these notes. I’m just copy pasting from my personal notes so bare with me if it’s something you’ve already talked about. It is different than your approach right now so... like I said these are just personal notes for myself to reference every time I get Dino’s.


-Dinoflagellates -

Here is a list of what I go through when I start to experience a Dino breakout (not in any specific order, I just check all of this to make sure I’m good) Also a couple of things to keep in mind;

-Things to keep in mind-
-Zero nutrients is a bad thing
-No water changes, they can feed off certain trace elements in the new salt
-Dosing H2O2, metro, Dino X, and blackouts are last resort (every success story with these have just as many devastating stories of killing some or everything in the tank.
-Deep sand beds and other low flow/cryptic areas are a place for Dino’s to hide and reproduce.
-Sand in general is where some species stay during the day and swim in the water column at night.
-Copepods are a great defense against Dino’s but when Dino’s die they can release toxins that can kill the pods and that creates food for the living Dino’s so if you start to get an outbreak get your hands on some Acartia pods right away. Maybe only add half the order at first and then a few days to a week later add the second half.

-A list to go through-
-water parameters to target
NO3- at least .5 ppm preferably 1-5 ppm
PO4- At least .01 and obviously not too high either
pH-8.4 (don’t stress about this one, it’s not the time to be chasing pH if it’s not already there)
*if you’re going to raise your nutrients do it slowly over a 1-2 week period and expect an ugly phase
-Check RODI filters & TDS change if necessary (Tap water is a huge F no in any reef tank scenario in my opinion- seen too many people quit the hobby because they didn’t realize the importance of clean top off water)
-Employ a refugium or chaeto reactor
-Employ Acartia tonsa Pods
-Reduce photo period on display tank and employ UV sterilizer (adults swim in the water column at night so this is when you’ll be able to kill some off- flow set to low flow to kill protozoans, not high flow for algae)
-Remove any natural sunlight from the scenario-**This is a big one**
-Manually remove as much as possible and change mechanical filter daily if not twice a day-**This is a big one too**
-Run carbon and change it frequently. It will help remove the toxins they release when they die.
-Keeping water/nutrient parameters stable is key. (Once you get the nutrients where they need to be that is)

 

[bearman88]

@ScottB @taricha
Here's another shot at ID'ing just to make sure I am dealing w/ large amphidiniums.
Video: and four photos attached.

These were taken at a 1200x zoom, but I've noticed 400x producing clearer 'larger' samples. I have a super cheap ~$25 microscope, and I wasn't able to get the 400x to focus in, but I'll try again.

I am not certain it is not ostrepsis, any ideas?

 

[Reefer5640]

Sorry disregard my suggestions in my previous post. I forgot you had established this was large amphidiniums. Those suggestions work for Dino’s in the water column.

 

[taricha]

Agree it's amphidinium.

 

[SeeFu]

i finally decided to just buy a UV sterilizer and see if that'll help w/ my dino problem. When I tune the flow, i tune it for addressing algae/bacteria, not protozoa right?

 

[ScottB]

@ScottB @taricha
Here's another shot at ID'ing just to make sure I am dealing w/ large amphidiniums.
Video: and four photos attached.

These were taken at a 1200x zoom, but I've noticed 400x producing clearer 'larger' samples. I have a super cheap ~$25 microscope, and I wasn't able to get the 400x to focus in, but I'll try again.

I am not certain it is not ostrepsis, any ideas?

Early in the video, I feel like a saw a small cell amphidinium do a quick fly by. But yeah, the others are large cell. Sorry. Those are the most difficult to solve for. At least they are the least toxic, so you got that going for ya.

 

[bearman88]

I started decreasing my temp back down slowly. Got the silica and tests kits. Also probably going to siphon out a couple times a week. Would this be counter productive to the silicates/diatom farming?

 

[bearman88]

Meant to add - the dinos have gotten worse, no sign of progress yet. They've spread to covering my rocks. Still determined to beat this, and share my findings with fellow dino warriors.

 

[ScottB]

I started decreasing my temp back down slowly. Got the silica and tests kits. Also probably going to siphon out a couple times a week. Would this be counter productive to the silicates/diatom farming?

The evidence for/against messing with the sand bed is very mixed. I tend toward the "do not disturb" school, allowing the diatoms to settle and compete.

 

[bearman88]

The evidence for/against messing with the sand bed is very mixed. I tend toward the "do not disturb" school, allowing the diatoms to settle and compete.

I'll go with the do not disturb method first then - thanks.

 

[SeeFu]

i put in a massive UV for my tank and dino's were gone in 2 days.

 

[bearman88]

i put in a massive UV for my tank and dino's were gone in 2 days.

Glad to hear that worked for you. To clarify - this approach is not effective against all strains of dinos, apparently the large amphidiniums type that I am battling are not effected by UV treatment.

 

[Woodneers]

Ok let’s do this! I’ve been battling this for far too long without any real concrete direction at all. I got a microscope today and took a look and managed to get a few terrible photos. If this doesn’t get me a positive ID I’ll reach out to the local high school to see if I can sneak a slide under their scopes! Anyways can one of you smart folk ID these buggers for me? Bonus points if you can tell me what the round spheres are!

 

[Woodneers]

And since I know someone will certainly need to know.
Alk 8.02
Calcium 527
Mag 1391
Salinity 1.025 and rising. Been fighting a faulty salinity probe
Temp 78
PH 8.2
Phosphate .13
Nitrate 25ish

 

[vetteguy53081]

Mild case at this point. I would reduce or turn off white for about 3-5 days and run blues at 40%. siphon this up and see what direction it goes. You may be able to cease it before investing in treatment