Dinos with high nutrients

[|sCRIBe|]

The past couple weeks I have experienced Dino’s which have covered my sand and rocks. It’s getting out of control and I’m not sure how to solve it since everywhere I read says it’s low to zero n and p which causes this however my current readings are N:19.3 and P:0.13 which is down from April 18, 2022 when it was N:34.3 and P:0.49. I’m not sure what to do for beating this.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The past couple weeks I have experienced Dino’s which have covered my sand and rocks. It’s getting out of control and I’m not sure how to solve it since everywhere I read says it’s low to zero n and p which causes this however my current readings are N:19.3 and P:0.13 which is down from April 18, 2022 when it was N:34.3 and P:0.49. I’m not sure what to do for beating this.

What test kits are you using?
Any pics of tank under white lighting?

 

[|sCRIBe|]

What test kits are you using?
Any pics of tank under white lighting?

I’m using Hanna for both
Here are pics under white of the sand, rock and back wall

 

[vetteguy53081]

I’m using Hanna for both
Here are pics under white of the sand, rock and back wall

Yes, Dinos.
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

Regarding your concerns with higher phos readings, the problem arises when conditions in the aquarium break the biological balance and some dinoflagellate species spread uncontrollably, smothering the rest of the aquarium inhabitants. If the dinoflagellate species in question has the ability to produce toxins (usual in ostreopsis, gambierdiscus and prorocentrum to name a few)
The problem often arises when we try to bring cleanliness it to the limit, in order to improve its appearance and color of corals.
They tend to occur suddenly when the aquarium water reaches an extraordinary cleanliness, in which most microorganisms perishes for lack of food. With no other organisms that can stop them, this type of dinoflagellate can multiply so fast that when we realize it's late and we will find an aquarium full of brown and ochre slime suffocating fish and invertebrates. These dinoflagellates possess chloroplasts enabling them to synthesize their own food even under a minimal amount of light. Some species can form cysts called pellicles which allow them to remain in the aquarium for months although we have completely sterilized or kept in complete darkness. Once the light or the right conditions come back, they will reappear and thus problems.
Most of these dinoflagellates have a very curious behavior, typical of pathogens and parasites. With the presence of light they secrete mucus which adhere to any surface, including algae, coral and fish. They spend hours synthesising food and extending vertically in search of the light source (if we turn off the pumps in the aquarium we can see brown filaments grow towards the surface). When the light source disappears and can no longer synthesize food, it begins to diminish to none.

 

[|sCRIBe|]

Yes, Dinos.
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

Regarding your concerns with higher phos readings, the problem arises when conditions in the aquarium break the biological balance and some dinoflagellate species spread uncontrollably, smothering the rest of the aquarium inhabitants. If the dinoflagellate species in question has the ability to produce toxins (usual in ostreopsis, gambierdiscus and prorocentrum to name a few)
The problem often arises when we try to bring cleanliness it to the limit, in order to improve its appearance and color of corals.
They tend to occur suddenly when the aquarium water reaches an extraordinary cleanliness, in which most microorganisms perishes for lack of food. With no other organisms that can stop them, this type of dinoflagellate can multiply so fast that when we realize it's late and we will find an aquarium full of brown and ochre slime suffocating fish and invertebrates. These dinoflagellates possess chloroplasts enabling them to synthesize their own food even under a minimal amount of light. Some species can form cysts called pellicles which allow them to remain in the aquarium for months although we have completely sterilized or kept in complete darkness. Once the light or the right conditions come back, they will reappear and thus problems.
Most of these dinoflagellates have a very curious behavior, typical of pathogens and parasites. With the presence of light they secrete mucus which adhere to any surface, including algae, coral and fish. They spend hours synthesising food and extending vertically in search of the light source (if we turn off the pumps in the aquarium we can see brown filaments grow towards the surface). When the light source disappears and can no longer synthesize food, it begins to diminish to none.

Thanks I’ll give this a try

 

[Spare time]

Do they dissapear at night? If so, get a UV sterilizer.

If not, consider dosing pns probio, eco balance, and possibly waste away too. No one knows why dinos appear, though typically it correlates wiht 0.00 phosphate for a prolonged period of time. However, since your phosphate is high (assuming the test kit is correct), I would try the bacterial additives. The reason I suggest these is that something is making the dinos happy. These products may be able to compete with the dinos for whatever makes the tank ideal, given that it is not related to 0.00 phosphate.

I would try to scrub the rocks and sides/back while performing a water change before adding the bacteria.

 

[Reef.]

Uv really helped mine.

 

[Eazy E]

I just fought this stuff for 6 months and there's no quick solution. First you need to Id what type of dinos, I bought a cheap microscope from Amazon. I had (op) and had tried blackouts and adding chemicals, but there was always had spots on the sand that migrated to the rocks and corals eventually. Even tried UV, but it just slowed them. I ordered a box of pods and phytoplankton, did yet another 3 day blackout, in combination with UV and changing filter sock every couple days turned the tide. I think my diamond goby kick butt too because he did his thing and moved sand constantly. Haven't seen anything on the sand in a couple weeks, but I add phytoplankton daily. I recommend finding out why they came, I know my dinos appeared because I used reef flux for some algae, then dinos appeared. Got my water ditry and cyano popped up so I used chemiclean. Dinos come back harder and faster. Tried this and that, but diversity is key.

 

[|sCRIBe|]

Do they dissapear at night? If so, get a UV sterilizer.

If not, consider dosing pns probio, eco balance, and possibly waste away too. No one knows why dinos appear, though typically it correlates wiht 0.00 phosphate for a prolonged period of time. However, since your phosphate is high (assuming the test kit is correct), I would try the bacterial additives. The reason I suggest these is that something is making the dinos happy. These products may be able to compete with the dinos for whatever makes the tank ideal, given that it is not related to 0.00 phosphate.

I would try to scrub the rocks and sides/back while performing a water change before adding the bacteria.

They don’t disappear at night. I have used waste away and that just bottoms my N and P to 0.0. I am currently adding eco-balance once a week. Isn’t a water change what fuels Dino’s?

I just fought this stuff for 6 months and there's no quick solution. First you need to Id what type of dinos, I bought a cheap microscope from Amazon. I had (op) and had tried blackouts and adding chemicals, but there was always had spots on the sand that migrated to the rocks and corals eventually. Even tried UV, but it just slowed them. I ordered a box of pods and phytoplankton, did yet another 3 day blackout, in combination with UV and changing filter sock every couple days turned the tide. I think my diamond goby kick butt too because he did his thing and moved sand constantly. Haven't seen anything on the sand in a couple weeks, but I add phytoplankton daily. I recommend finding out why they came, I know my dinos appeared because I used reef flux for some algae, then dinos appeared. Got my water ditry and cyano popped up so I used chemiclean. Dinos come back harder and faster. Tried this and that, but diversity is key.

I had cyano really bad and did a chemiclean treatment which solved the cyano but now I got these dinos. So I think it was the chemiclean that started this problem. It solved one problem but started another. Isn’t the treatment basically the same no matter which Dino you have, is Id really that important?

 

[Reef.]

They don’t disappear at night. I have used waste away and that just bottoms my N and P to 0.0. I am currently adding eco-balance once a week. Isn’t a water change what fuels Dino’s?

I had cyano really bad and did a chemiclean treatment which solved the cyano but now I got these dinos. So I think it was the chemiclean that started this problem. It solved one problem but started another. Isn’t the treatment basically the same no matter which Dino you have, is Id really that important?

if it’s the uv type the. A UV really helps, but apart from that, no it’s not important to ID them imo.

Mine always seem to get worse after a water change, but once you start to get on top of them a water change tends to help.

Depending on the size of your tank, it’s basically removing as many as you can, scrubbing rocks and blowing sand, out of the water if possible, upping nutrients and UV if it’s the UV type which if they don’t go at night, sounds as if it’s not those.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The past couple weeks I have experienced Dino’s which have covered my sand and rocks. It’s getting out of control and I’m not sure how to solve it since everywhere I read says it’s low to zero n and p which causes this however my current readings are N:19.3 and P:0.13 which is down from April 18, 2022 when it was N:34.3 and P:0.49. I’m not sure what to do for beating this.

Edit:

you may have photosynthetic dinoflagellates, as it appears they using organic carbon from photosynthesis and using no3 and po4 in the process.
would e temped in recommending lowering the lights and add a nitrogen source and phosphates temporary as a method of outcompeting.

by lowering the light you will refusing them photosynthesis and by adding nitrogen and phosphates you will be denying them organic carbon that can be used in alternative to photosynthesis as a survival method by the dinoflagellates.

 

[|sCRIBe|]

This is where it doesn’t make sense to me be cause I had nitrate and phosphates elevated and the Dino’s are doing great still

 

[SlugSnorter]

The past couple weeks I have experienced Dino’s which have covered my sand and rocks. It’s getting out of control and I’m not sure how to solve it since everywhere I read says it’s low to zero n and p which causes this however my current readings are N:19.3 and P:0.13 which is down from April 18, 2022 when it was N:34.3 and P:0.49. I’m not sure what to do for beating this.

could be cyano caused by high nitrates

 

[|sCRIBe|]

I just don’t know what I should be keeping my nitrates and phosphates at this point trying to eradicate dinos

 

[Spare time]

They don’t disappear at night. I have used waste away and that just bottoms my N and P to 0.0. I am currently adding eco-balance once a week. Isn’t a water change what fuels Dino’s?

I had cyano really bad and did a chemiclean treatment which solved the cyano but now I got these dinos. So I think it was the chemiclean that started this problem. It solved one problem but started another. Isn’t the treatment basically the same no matter which Dino you have, is Id really that important?

No one knows what causes dinos, but they often correlate with 0.00 phosphate. The waste away would be an attempt to see if maybe they are there because of some organics that they are thriving off of. However, you have to maintain phosphate and nitrate when dosing waste away for this method. Again, this is just a game of maybe this works, as no one here is going to be able to say that X causes dinos. In this case, I'd say keep doing eco balance, and maybe try the pns probio this time while maintaining some nitrate and phosphate in the tank (just in case it lowers it). If the low diversity competition hypothesis is correct, the chemiclean could have wiped some bacteria out that opened a niche for the dinos. However, chemiclean is used very frequently and rarely do dinos follow unless the tank already had 0 nitrate and phosphate (cyano may correlate with 0 nitrate as while other organisms need nitrogen in the water, cyano can take it from the atmosphere). The ID if the dino matters as some can be killed by UV while others can't, and you can also have multiple types at once.

 

[|sCRIBe|]

Here is a photo from the microscope as close as I could get

 

[|sCRIBe|]

Yes, Dinos.
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

Regarding your concerns with higher phos readings, the problem arises when conditions in the aquarium break the biological balance and some dinoflagellate species spread uncontrollably, smothering the rest of the aquarium inhabitants. If the dinoflagellate species in question has the ability to produce toxins (usual in ostreopsis, gambierdiscus and prorocentrum to name a few)
The problem often arises when we try to bring cleanliness it to the limit, in order to improve its appearance and color of corals.
They tend to occur suddenly when the aquarium water reaches an extraordinary cleanliness, in which most microorganisms perishes for lack of food. With no other organisms that can stop them, this type of dinoflagellate can multiply so fast that when we realize it's late and we will find an aquarium full of brown and ochre slime suffocating fish and invertebrates. These dinoflagellates possess chloroplasts enabling them to synthesize their own food even under a minimal amount of light. Some species can form cysts called pellicles which allow them to remain in the aquarium for months although we have completely sterilized or kept in complete darkness. Once the light or the right conditions come back, they will reappear and thus problems.
Most of these dinoflagellates have a very curious behavior, typical of pathogens and parasites. With the presence of light they secrete mucus which adhere to any surface, including algae, coral and fish. They spend hours synthesising food and extending vertically in search of the light source (if we turn off the pumps in the aquarium we can see brown filaments grow towards the surface). When the light source disappears and can no longer synthesize food, it begins to diminish to none.

What do you think about also dosing waste away?

 

[Spare time]

PS ill hop back on here in a bit if no one diagnoses the species of dinos. There are websites that list them with pictures and can share it if you'd like.

 

[chadfish]

I just got the upper hand on my dino problem. I won’t say “won” the war, but I’m feeling more confident every day that goes by. They were on the sand and did not go into the water column at night. I’ll skip what didn’t work and get right to what did.

1) I ditched the chaeto. That was keeping my nutrients too low. After I removed it, I had a stable 2.5-5ppm NO3 and 0.03-0.05 phosphate . This gave me the nutrients to feed the competitors

2) I started by siphoning as much as I could and getting the rest into the water column

3) I used 5 micron filter sock at night just in case any dinos did enter the water column

4) I introduced live Florida Keys sand and mud from Florida Pets. This adds a huge amount of bacteria and diversity. Florida pets is online and the sand is cheap, like $20 shipped or some

5) I covered the sand with filter floss pad. I have a huge roll of it and cut it to fit in between the rocks and coral. This singles out the photosynthetic dinos and gives the new bacteria time to settle in. It also avoids a total blackout which can be stressful on coral. To be honest, I started off with a 2-day blackout then kept the filter pads there another 3-4 days.

6) I disturbed the new sand&mud every once in a while to make sure the tank was seeded

7) I was in low-light mode to help control the Dino’s, but throughout the process I increased the lights to full PAR that my tank requires

Since then, I’ve had to siphon the sand once a week as small numbers of Dino’s remained. But their numbers are greatly reduced and decreasing.

People say dinos appear when there is an imbalance in the micro biome. So I fixed the mocrobiome. No heterotrophic bottle bacteria that is transient - I added real bacteria from the ocean.

 

[|sCRIBe|]

Yes, Dinos.
Prepare by starting with a water change and blow this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles.
Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10-15% IF you have light dependant corals) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off.
During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons.
Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED CORAL FOODS OR ADD NOPOX as it is food for dinos.
Day 5,, you can start with blue lights - ramping up and work your white lights up slowly

Regarding your concerns with higher phos readings, the problem arises when conditions in the aquarium break the biological balance and some dinoflagellate species spread uncontrollably, smothering the rest of the aquarium inhabitants. If the dinoflagellate species in question has the ability to produce toxins (usual in ostreopsis, gambierdiscus and prorocentrum to name a few)
The problem often arises when we try to bring cleanliness it to the limit, in order to improve its appearance and color of corals.
They tend to occur suddenly when the aquarium water reaches an extraordinary cleanliness, in which most microorganisms perishes for lack of food. With no other organisms that can stop them, this type of dinoflagellate can multiply so fast that when we realize it's late and we will find an aquarium full of brown and ochre slime suffocating fish and invertebrates. These dinoflagellates possess chloroplasts enabling them to synthesize their own food even under a minimal amount of light. Some species can form cysts called pellicles which allow them to remain in the aquarium for months although we have completely sterilized or kept in complete darkness. Once the light or the right conditions come back, they will reappear and thus problems.
Most of these dinoflagellates have a very curious behavior, typical of pathogens and parasites. With the presence of light they secrete mucus which adhere to any surface, including algae, coral and fish. They spend hours synthesising food and extending vertically in search of the light source (if we turn off the pumps in the aquarium we can see brown filaments grow towards the surface). When the light source disappears and can no longer synthesize food, it begins to diminish to none.

Lights are back on ramping up. Question is how long should I continue the bacteria and h2o2 for, is there a regiment moving forward. Everything seems ok and looks much better but I dont want to revert