Disappointing fish order

[markkazdad]

First, the positive. When I decided last Wednesday to try to order some fish and shrimp from reefs2go, they were very helpful on the phone and by email and were able to get the shipment out the same day so I could get it on Thursday (my day off). (+1) I hadn't previously realized they usually take 1 to 4 days for order processing. They also honored without question the "Terrific Tuesday" 10% off code in my cart even though it was Wednesday. (+1)

So, I ordered 2 blue-green chromis, 2 yellow clown gobies, 2 A. ocellaris, and 2 peppermint shrimp. Total with overnight shipping, less than a tank of gas.

Unfortunately, FedEx didn't arrive until 11:42am and 4 fish were DOA. I immediately called reefs2go and they answered the phone right away (+1) and suggested I drip acclimate all of the fish just in case.

One ocellaris and one goby were alive, survived a 2 hour drip acclimation and seemed to my newbie eyes to be doing well. However, the ocellaris was visibly stressed about 15 minutes after adding him to the tank (when I went back to check on him). He was resting on the sand and having trouble staying upright. I thought about trying to remove him back to the acclimation container, but thought the added stress of trying to net him around the live rock would not be good. He was dead and covered with cleanup crew within an hour.

The goby fared a little better. He seemed to be doing fine when I went to bed, except possibly that a few times he was resting on the overflow grill. I felt with my hand and it didn't seem like there was much suction there, but I thought it might not be great for him, so I encouraged him to move, and he swam energetically to another place amongst the small corals I have. The yellow-tailed blue damsel in the tank was busy chasing the one peppermint shrimp in that tank (though they now seem to have reached a truce), and I was having thoughts of regret over starting with a damsel. The next morning, the goby was MIA. I presume he passed during the night and was consumed by CUC. I suppose it is possible he went over the overflow grill and into the filter area (of the Aqueon Evolve 2), so I looked and didn't find him, but the design doesn't allow full visibility.

Besides the deaths, I'm a bit disappointed that I have not yet received a response from reefs2go informing me of what credit they will offer. I sent them photos on Thursday afternoon, inquired on Friday and again today by email. (-1) (In the same time period I have received at least 4 email ads from them.)

I am not sure whether the shipping was too much for the fish or not (FedEx did meet their estimate of "by 12:00pm"). Tracking shows the package picked up at 6:43pm (Eastern), left Florida at 8:04pm, arrived in Memphis from 10:16pm - 2:45am, arrived in Madison at 7:34am, out for delivery at 8:25am.

USPS Express Mail takes 2 days to my town, and Priority Mail usually takes 3 days (though sometimes only 2). I may just be out of luck in receiving shipments here earlier in the day.

 

[NanaReefer]

Familiar story

 

[JSB]

Well, first off, sorry about that. Second, let me say that Live Aquaria has been great to deal with in these instances. Third, lets talk about your being able to receive fish. First overnight is not absolutely necessary, but I understand that it is desirable. The late FedEx delivery (by a couple of hours) did not cause your DOAs. It may have contributed some, but that was not the root cause. Many people receive fish later in the day when they get home from work, so the problem began elsewhere. My guess is that they were packed early and packed poorly, but who's to say? I wasn't there.

Now, what I would do, were I you, is deal with vendor with a good reputation (not that R2G is not), and one that ships FedEx. Then, have them mark the package for "Hold at FedEx Facility". When you get off work at the arsenal at 7:00, go out and have leisurely breakfast (Call it Cracker Barrel or Waffle King). By the time you are done, you will have been notified that your package is at the facility. Drive out to County Line Rd and Production to the FedEx facility and get your fish by 8-9am and take them directly home. Then you even beat FedEx's 10:00am delivery promise.

 

[markkazdad]

The pick-up at the facility option is a good idea.

The package seemed well packed. The cold pack gel felt like it was room temperature or slightly lower.

 

[nhago]

This is from another thread... I had an unfortunate experience with reefs2go.. very similar to yours.. and I received my fish through Fedex at around 9:30AM

I know I will not be ordering from them again.. After many many stressful and time consuming phone calls, I ended up getting a refund for the flame angel, but it was made clear to me that they don't do this at all and this was just more of a "quit bothering us" gesture, which i am completely fine with!

I have very mixed feelings about reefs2go. Although I liked their customer service at first and the fact that they have good deals and a 14 day guarantee, here is my experience:

- 1st order: 3 chromis, flame angel, a mandarin and some coral ($10 zoas just to add to the order).
When I got the shipping (next morning around 9:30AM), the mandarin, 1 chromis and the flame angel were all dead. I called them and they promptly gave me a coupon, but i would have to pay for shipping again. Needless to say, with this first order it was like my chromis cost me $26, instead of $2, because of the added shipping.

-2nd order: 1 chromis, flame, mandarin and some other additional coral (also, a couple of good deal on zoas and mushrooms)
Once again, my flame angel was DOA the next morning and never made it to the tank and the extra chromis was bullied by the other 2 (I thought this could happen).

They claim that the DOA average for their shipped fish is less than 5%, so either I am just THAT lucky or there is something wrong there. Either way, the great deal they had on fish ended up costing more out of my pocket than going to a local store. Just my experience..

It has been my experience that the general practice is to credit/refund the price of the animal only. Even if it was the only thing shipped. Some may do it differently, but I haven't had a lot of DOAs. Actually in this last attempt at reef keeping, I have only had a brain and a firefish die, and both after a week or two. But Vivid and Live Aquaria did the same thing by refunding my money on the animal only.

My biggest grief about my situation is that r2g's policy is to only give customers store credit and no refunds. I am fine with the price I have paid in shipping. I just don't want to try again after 2 failed attempts!!

 

[pickupman66]

I have heard not so good things from them. the best experiences I have heard come from reefcleaners.org for cleanup crews and Live Aquaria for fish. Sorry to hear of your troubles.

 

[markkazdad]

nhago, I couldn't find that thread to quote it myself in my report above, though I had read it and made the order fully informed.

 

[BReefer]

Originally Posted by nhago
I have very mixed feelings about reefs2go. Although I liked their customer service at first and the fact that they have good deals and a 14 day guarantee, here is my experience:

- 1st order: 3 chromis, flame angel, a mandarin and some coral ($10 zoas just to add to the order).
When I got the shipping (next morning around 9:30AM), the mandarin, 1 chromis and the flame angel were all dead. I called them and they promptly gave me a coupon, but i would have to pay for shipping again. Needless to say, with this first order it was like my chromis cost me $26, instead of $2, because of the added shipping.

-2nd order: 1 chromis, flame, mandarin and some other additional coral (also, a couple of good deal on zoas and mushrooms)
Once again, my flame angel was DOA the next morning and never made it to the tank and the extra chromis was bullied by the other 2 (I thought this could happen).

They claim that the DOA average for their shipped fish is less than 5%, so either I am just THAT lucky or there is something wrong there. Either way, the great deal they had on fish ended up costing more out of my pocket than going to a local store. Just my experience..
Like Nhago mentioned. We split an order from reefs2go and I order what should be yellow zoas, bam-bam zoas, and some green eye zoas.
Well I can say that I got them, but instead of the colors I ordered, I got a brownish yellow for the yellow zoas (it has been over couple months and they still pretty much plain brown), the green zoas were so small and the coloration so faded that I wasn't too happy (up to today is pretty much the ugliest zoa i have on my tank and has nothing to do with what they have posted on their site), and the most disappointing one was the bam-bam, which it was the most expensive one and never opened up and all the heads ended up dying within a week or two.
So we tried to place an order again for other zoas and again bam-bam became history and nhago had even more issues with his order. Lesson learned, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

My biggest issue with them was the way they handled nhago's complaints. The costumer service made it sound like they were doing a favor by selling to us. Not very pleased with it. I know I will not be using their services again.

 

[Dowtish]

I ordered from them way back when my tank first cycled. They were offering a buy 1 get 1 free deal on their cleanup crews. I would say that easily 50% of them were DOA. But I got so many, it wasnt worth the effort to complain to them about it. I have seen very similar posts about them everywhere. I honestly think that their systems and husbandry for all their livestock is very poor. So by the time they are bagged up to be shipped they are already doomed.

 

[markkazdad]

I figured out that I should log in to my account on the web site, and I can see they've given me credit for the dead fish. I will likely choose something with free shipping to use the store credit and see how it goes.

 

[fraggingfish]

This seems to be solely customer and seller issues.

1. Seller because chances are the fishes were not shipped in oxygen like they should.
3 Parts Water, 5 Parts Oxygen. This sounds absurd but it's true.
Aside from that, shipping results are determined by the health of the fish prior to being shipped.

2. Buyer because 2 hour drip acclimations from a long ship trip, with low oxygen is the number one cause for DOA's.
More water is never better than more oxygen.

In the end, I hope both parties come to a consensus.

Sorry to hear for your losses.

My acclimations are brief, open bag, half cup of tank water, dilute for 5 mins, repeat every 5 minutes until bag is near full.
Shouldn't take any longer than 10-15 mins.

Once complete, I throw them in the QT tank to monitor for the next several days to weeks.

 

[markkazdad]

This seems to be solely customer and seller issues.

There is no way of knowing if the shipper played a role. The package was not instrumented.

1. Seller because chances are the fishes were not shipped in oxygen like they should.
3 Parts Water, 5 Parts Oxygen. This sounds absurd but it's true.

By volume and visual approximation, those ratios appear to have been followed. Whether they started with oxygen remains up in the air.

2. Buyer because 2 hour drip acclimations from a long ship trip, with low oxygen is the number one cause for DOA's.
More water is never better than more oxygen.

The seller's recommendation is 2 to 3 hours. (Actually, the drip rate was not specified so 2 to 3 hours is ambiguous.) If anything I was worried I did not wait long enough, but your opinion based on your experience seems to be that I waited too long. Am I understanding you correctly?

In the end, I hope both parties come to a consensus.

I am sure we will.

To me this is all about the learning.

 

[shred5]

Well most were dead already to me that means they were not packed right or ready for the trip...

 

[Gavij]

I ordered a yellow tang and a flame angel from them along with some zoas. The angel had a small hole in its bag and some kind of bacterial growth next to one of its gill. I lost some zoa too before they opened at all. Their packing was not great, no double bag on fish!! I wrote to them but did not heard anything back for a month now. The angel did make it thru but the tang also looked like it had some MHLLE. So I would not order from them if i have an option. I just did not have to order a lot of things to get free shipping.
I like liveaquaria best. Their price are always great. They pack their order very well and they have 14 day guarantee which they honor with no fuss. I just send them an email and they give me credit for it. The only problem is you have to order 225 worth to get free shipping. But if two ppl can split an order that should not be a problem. Hold at FedEX facility is a ver good option. The fish does not have to travel all over town and get a jolt every time the driver brakes.

 

[JSB]

Hold at FedEX facility is a ver good option. The fish does not have to travel all over town and get a jolt every time the driver brakes.

FedEx trucks (or UPS, or DHL, or...) are typically not air conditioned and/or heated well. Temps can get very high/low in the cargo hold depending on the season and the time they are in the truck. You pick them up yourself before the heat/cool packs are exhausted and carry them directly home in your 75 degree toyota and it is better for all.

 

[BReefer]

2. Buyer because 2 hour drip acclimations from a long ship trip, with low oxygen is the number one cause for DOA's.
More water is never better than more oxygen.

In the end, I hope both parties come to a consensus.

Sorry to hear for your losses.

My acclimations are brief, open bag, half cup of tank water, dilute for 5 mins, repeat every 5 minutes until bag is near full.
Shouldn't take any longer than 10-15 mins.

I think this could actually make it worse for the fish. The problem is not just the lack of Oxygen, but as we know, with the Oxygen depletion the pH starts to drop and if you dont slowly bring the pH up, your fish is gonna suffer with the pH shock and possible die from it.

If I learned one thing on this hobby is the slow and steady always wins the race, so there is no point on rushing the acclimation process.

The costumer cannot be held responsible for poor shipping and handling of the fish. When I buy it online I am assuming that I am getting it from a competent vendor which will follow the right steps to assure he/she is putting out the best product and giving the fish, coral, inverts, etc the best shot of making it.

That's about it, anything else other than that is beyond my control.

To be honest, what I got from the reefs2go is that they actually expect (well expect might be a strong word buuuut....) the DOA. And by issuing you in store credit it forces you to buy more things from them and you still have to pay another $50 bucks for shipping thus making them even more profit on a product that they are double selling.

But again this is just MY opinion.

 

[Dave3112]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. And FedEx hold at location is the ONLY way I receive packages anymore. The drivers NEVER make it by 10:30 even if specified. I have called them numerous times and they always have some excuse. My favorite is that I live in a rural area and the guarantee does not apply. I live in downtown Athens ( not metropolitan by Nashville standards but not rural).

I have ordered many fish from many places over the years and my favorite is Liveaquaria.com followed closely by saltwaterfish.com. I have never ever drip acclimated. I temperature acclimate the bags then cu the tops open and pour half the water out. Then I add about 200 ml of my tank water out every 5 min until the bag is full again then dump half the water out and repeat until bag is full again. Then I get my large net and dump the contents of the bag into the net. A spare salt bucket in front of the tank helps for this step. Then I release the fish into the tank without any of the water from the bag making it to my system. I have probably bought 30 or more fish online and acclimated all of them this way. If the fish were alive and healthy when I opened the bag then they all lived for a long time in my tanks.

 

[markkazdad]

The seller contacted me early this afternoon.

 

[fraggingfish]

Slow and steady is not always a good way to prepare and be ready sometimes.

So you're saying if your fish is breath erratically, laying down, obviously from exhaustion or suffocation.
You will still do a 2-3 hour drip method, provides the fish on a few gasps of air from a single drop per xx seconds?

I'm not trying to argue here, but Live Aquaria does provide more than one method of acclimation.
Mine has been working very well and efficiently. Trust you and everyone will make the right decision as well.

Happy Reefing everyone!