Disease ID and quarantine

[alexkharden]

Hello everyone. Maybe this has been answered, maybe not. In general it concerns filter floss in quarantine. I've had some little clowns in quarantine and I've had filter floss in the HOB to maintain a bio filter and keep ammonia in check. They have seemed healthy and so I haven't used any medications of any kind. Yesterday I received 3 fish from an online vendor, and two of them are in pretty bad shape. I actually have two qt tanks, so I put the two carnivores in one qt, and I added the wrasse to the qt with the clowns in it.

I guess I'm getting ahead of myself. Two Extreme Picasso Clowns in quarantine already. 20g tank. One larger HOB filter with filter floss in it. One small powerhead. One 75W heater. A 2" piece of 45 degree PVC elbow.

Other qt has been fallow until yesterday. Pretty much identical setup as the first qt.

The three first I received yesterday were a Marine Betta, a Sargassum Angler, and a Blue Sided Fairy Wrasse.

I put the Betta and the Angler in the fallow tank, separated by eggcrate. I put the Wrasse in the tank with the clowns. I attempted to separate the clowns from the wrasse with eggcrate, but all of the fish are too small for that to work, lol.

The angler appears in perfect health. It's already eaten feeder shrimp and fish live, and feeder shrimp from a feeding stick.

The wrasse is cowering in the bottom corner of the qt, and won't move unless I prompt it to move somehow.

The Betta is doing even worse. It's basically staying in a head down vertical position. It's fins are pulled in, it has a string of white lumpy poo stuck to it's anus, and it has a section along one flank where it's missing scales.

I think most of the problem is ammonia poisoning. The fish were delivered 32 hours late (dang you fedex) and so obviously were in transit a lot longer than they should've been. I drip acclimated them over 2 hours, with methylene blue and stress coat in the water.

Anyway, because of the poo, the fins, and the scales, I'm concerned about internal and external parasites. I just placed a large order for a medicine cabinet stockpile, but it hasn't arrived yet, so I ran to the store and picked up some API General Cure. I dosed both tanks. Am I able to run filter floss in those HOB's, or do i need to remove it and use Prime/WC's to control ammonia?

Also, does my interim diagnosis of the fish seem relatively accurate?

thank you!

 

[jsker]

Can you shoot a couple of pictures and put them up, It will make things easier. [HASHTAG]#reefsquad[/HASHTAG]

 

[alexkharden]

Of the betta, the wrasse, the tanks, something else...? (not being snarky, lol)

 

[alexkharden]

Here's the poo and the vertical position.

Here's the scales on the side as best as I could get.

 

[alexkharden]

Here's the wrasse, hiding. It's actually alive.

The qt setup.

 

[Robink]

No expert, but I think the filter floss is ok you just can't use charcoal as it will remove any meds. And yes you would control ammonia via w/c's. @Humblefish is the expert and he will be able to diagnose the problem.

 

[alexkharden]

See, that's what confuses me. If there's filter floss in there it provides an environment for the bacteria to build up and convert the ammonia. But I see people always talking about doing water changes for ammonia, so I wondered why. I could understand water changes for nitrates in that circumstance, but not ammonia. It made me think that no filter material was being used at all - so that lead to me wondering if filter floss was bad with medications. The whole thing just mixed me up.

 

[alexkharden]

Better pic of the scales.

 

[melypr1985]

People are always talking about doing water changes to control ammonia (me included) because most people set up a QT on the fly and it's not cycled yet. Those people still need something to harbor bacteria and do the water changes until they're QT's cycle and they can relax on them after that.

Have you done a FW dip on the marine betta yet? I would as it would give him some relief until the meds show up. Though the general cure should help with flukes and intestinal worms. You can absolutely keep the filter floss in the tank during treatment.

The wrasse looks stressed and you may want to increase the number of PVC elbows in the tank to help him. You could do a FW dip on him as well to rule out Flukes as a problem.

Here's how to do the FW dip just in case:
Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

 

[melypr1985]

You'll probably need to treat for infection on the betta as well, but it's probably best to get rid of the cause before treating the effect.

 

[alexkharden]

Thank you! I haven't done a FW dip on anything yet. As stressed as they were from shipping I thought it might be the end of the line for them. Since I've already dosed the General Cure, should i wait for that cycle to end, or just pull the fish out of qt, dip them, and then put them back in?

 

[melypr1985]

If the general cure is already in there, just let it do it's work. Did you dose both QT's with General Cure?

 

[alexkharden]

Yes, since the wrasse is in the other tank. The clowns are also there, but I figured I exposed them to whatever the wrasse might have had, so it couldn't hurt to treat them too.

 

[Humblefish]

General Cure should knock out the intestinal worms (white stringy poop), as that medication contains metronidazole.

 

[alexkharden]

I hope so. I think I'll probably need some antibiotics too, once I finish the GC.

 

[Humblefish]

I hope so. I think I'll probably need some antibiotics too, once I finish the GC.

You can safely mix Kanaplex with GC.

 

[alexkharden]

I didn't order kanaplex. I ordered erythromycin, furan-2, and Triple Sulfa. Will one of those do the trick?

 

[alexkharden]

I also ordered prazipro, metrolex, cupramine, paraguard, and metronidazole & garlic flake food.

 

[Humblefish]

I didn't order kanaplex. I ordered erythromycin, furan-2, and Triple Sulfa. Will one of those do the trick?

^^You should be able to mix those with GC. I've just never done it before. Go with Furan-2 first.

 

[alexkharden]

Well, I placed the order last night. The GC round will be done on Monday, so I probably won't have them by then. I think the only thing I can get locally is erythromycin.