Diver's Den Fish without QT???

[ca1ore]

I find that fish are stressed enough from shipping and packaging. Putting them into a sterile system usually lacking the same level of filtration as the main tank seems even more stressful. Good luck!

I see these two 'arguments' all the time. Versus putting said stressed (and probably malnourished) fish into an environment where some percentage (sometimes all) of the residents want to kill it? Done properly, QT is actually much less stressful. Just because a fish dies in QT does not mean QT was the reason. May have died in the DT as well. Correlation is not causation. At the end of the day we all do what we think is best for our system and circumstances. No better source of fish than DD, but I have had velvet once. Good luck to you

 

[siggy]

In my experience, yes you absolutely need to QT extensively. Had flukes, ick and velvet in all three of the shipments I have received from them.

Seems I have to Qt every fish these days.

My last shipment I received a anthias with velvet and just about wiped me out

 

[lion king]

I am probably in a minority. But I have never quarantined anything. My wife barely allows me to have one tank and a second one that is used only to quarantine fish is absolutely out of the question. I find that fish are stressed enough from shipping and packaging. Putting them into a sterile system usually lacking the same level of filtration as the main tank seems even more stressful. I have added divers den fish straight to my tank for years and have never had any outbreaks. That said i always feed my fish heavily with selcon mixed in to keep their immune systems as strong as possible. Good luck!

This is a lack of understanding and lame advice of how to qt fish to begin with. A qt tank needs to have adequate filtration, fully cycled, an appropriate size for the species and outfitted with what the species needs. Hiding places, sand for burying wrasses; live foods like pods, algaes, sponges for difficult to feed species, even dither fish if necessary. NOT a 10g with a sponge filter grabbed from a sump inadequately cycled to support the livestock added or the appropriate space as not to add a high level of stress. My basic qt is a 40 breeder and I have a 90g for large species, fully cycled with hiding spots and is on the same cycle of lighting and feeding as my dt's.

 

[cracker]

At least the potential for a healthy, fish is better from DD.

 

[11f150]

I would agree that you can probably get healthier fish to begin with from DD but you need to QT. Not QTing is just not worth the potential huge risk of losing all your fish. Also having to catch fish in your DT and further stress them out to move them once infected.

 

[Dawsokj1988]

This is a lack of understanding and lame advice of how to qt fish to begin with. A qt tank needs to have adequate filtration, fully cycled, an appropriate size for the species and outfitted with what the species needs. Hiding places, sand for burying wrasses; live foods like pods, algaes, sponges for difficult to feed species, even dither fish if necessary. NOT a 10g with a sponge filter grabbed from a sump inadequately cycled to support the livestock added or the appropriate space as not to add a high level of stress. My basic qt is a 40 breeder and I have a 90g for large species, fully cycled with hiding spots and is on the same cycle of lighting and feeding as my dt's.

Not everyone can have a second full-blown display that's only for QT purposes.

 

[lion king]

Not everyone can have a second full-blown display that's only for QT purposes.

True, and in those cases it's probably best not to qt at all. The best lfs around here recommends against qt unless you are going to do it right. They tell me more people kill fish in qt when done improperly than the fish they lose without qt, hands down by a huge margin.

 

[ca1ore]

Not everyone can have a second full-blown display that's only for QT purposes.

Fortunately you don't have to. I'm sure there's a sticky on the subject, but my main QT is a 20L with a heater, lights, hob filter, power head and some PVC. I keep a cannister of biomedia on my main system, so when a QT is needed it's already cycled. I use water from the main system. Really quite easy. Now, if one wants to maintain a smaller, full analog of your main system (which I also do) that's great, and can be particularly useful for problematic fish. It's an issue though if a fish put into it is sick. Means you have to fallow the QT, which is a pain.

 

[rushbattle]

Not everyone can have a second full-blown display that's only for QT purposes.

LOL, the sole like for this post right now is "Booger McMoron."

If you don't have enough room for a 10 gallon tank to run one fish through at a time, you likely just don't have enough room for a tank at all. Consider what is best for the fish that you have taken from the ocean, flown half way around the world, and put into a tiny box. I think it is disrespectful to put them into that tiny box with parasites that are quite effective at killing them at some point. I understand, I don't want to have a QT either. But a temporary 10 gallon shouldn’t be too much to ask.

There is another solution though @Humblefish I think he is going to sell fully QTed fish, but you have to leave your tank fallow for about three months before you can start adding prophetically treated fish back into the tank.

 

[mckinney0171]

LOL, the sole like for this post right now is "Booger McMoron."

If you don't have enough room for a 10 gallon tank to run one fish through at a time, you likely just don't have enough room for a tank at all. Consider what is best for the fish that you have taken from the ocean, flown half way around the world, and put into a tiny box. I think it is disrespectful to put them into that tiny box with parasites that are quite effective at killing them at some point. I understand, I don't want to have a QT either. But a temporary 10 gallon shouldn’t be too much to ask.

There is another solution though @Humblefish I think he is going to sell fully QTed fish, but you have to leave your tank fallow for about three months before you can start adding prophetically treated fish back into the tank.

I don’t think a 10 gallon tank is a very good size for most fish. To do a decent quarantine you need at least 25 gallons to Keep tangs etc from going crazy.

 

[Dawsokj1988]

LOL, the sole like for this post right now is "Booger McMoron."

If you don't have enough room for a 10 gallon tank to run one fish through at a time, you likely just don't have enough room for a tank at all. Consider what is best for the fish that you have taken from the ocean, flown half way around the world, and put into a tiny box. I think it is disrespectful to put them into that tiny box with parasites that are quite effective at killing them at some point. I understand, I don't want to have a QT either. But a temporary 10 gallon shouldn’t be too much to ask.

There is another solution though @Humblefish I think he is going to sell fully QTed fish, but you have to leave your tank fallow for about three months before you can start adding prophetically treated fish back into the tank.

huh? See the post I was replying to. There's a difference between a 10 or 25 gallon QT tank and a 90 gallon QT tank with sand, live rock, and lighting that matches the DT.

 

[rushbattle]

I don’t think a 10 gallon tank is a very good size for most fish. To do a decent quarantine you need at least 25 gallons to Keep tangs etc from going crazy.

Agreed, but I think it is the minimum size that can reasonably be used for small fish.

Edit: I see what you mean. It's all about what he said. It must be appropriate for the use. A mature tang needs a much bigger space than say, a mature neon goby. If you buy small juvenile fish you can get most of them through with a 20 gallon tank, for example. Some species need conditioning before prophilactic treatment, i.e. leopard wrasse need to be trained to eat dead food from live before you can start treating them. Everything must be taken into account.

My point is that you need to take into account the ramifications of not properly quarantining the fish. Said more directly, only keep fish that you can QT properly. It might feel limiting, but at least you aren't killing fish over and over when you eventually get velvet and wipe everything out a few times.

 

[d-man]

QT!!!!! Received my diamond tail flasher. Put in QT, 2nd day, bacterial infection. Wiped him out in 3 days even with furan2

 

[ca1ore]

you have to leave your tank fallow for about three months before you can start adding prophetically treated fish back into the tank.

Say what? Far be it for me to criticize anyone else for bad typing, but this made me chuckle. A prophetic fish ..... that would be useful.

 

[cracker]

Ok, Calore what is Your general idea of a properly run qt ? Iv'e lost several in or soon after qt. I'd like to know if I'm screwing up? I'm new to qt is why I ask.

 

[scott11106]

I ordered fish from liveaquaria and they shipped Thursday, ups messed up and they say they will deliver by 8pm today, what do I need to do?

 

[eatbreakfast]

Unfortunately not much. It is highly unlikely any survived that long in bags.

 

[scott11106]

Do I accept the package? I never ordered online before, first timer

 

[eatbreakfast]

Do I accept the package? I never ordered online before, first timer

Yes, accept the package, check and see if any possibly made it, even though unlikely, then call LA and let them know. Their guarantee is the best.

 

[ca1ore]

Ok, Calore what is Your general idea of a properly run qt ? Iv'e lost several in or soon after qt. I'd like to know if I'm screwing up? I'm new to qt is why I ask.

You probably aren't screwing up - newly arrived fish do die. My own approach is as follows:

1. My principal QT is a standard 20L with a screen top. I keep it empty and dry while not in active use.
2. It has a heater, powerhead, light and small h-o-b power filter. I keep a canister of biomedia running on my main tank.
3. When I am expecting a new fish(s), I fill the 20L from my main system adjusting the salinity to that of the incoming (unless it is DD, I set it nominally to 1.018, and adjust once I can measure the shipping water)
4. I put 1-2 cups of the seeded biomedia into the power filter.
5. I generally use a single dose of nitrofuracin green powder in the QT tank water to ease initial acclimation (helps if there is any ammonia burn) and keep the light very dim.
6. Newcomer floats for temperature equalization for 15-20 minutes and then is released; I do not worry about adding the bag water.
7. Over the first couple of days I gradually increase the light intensity
8. I typically do not try to feed until day 2
9. Any further/required meds are done only after the fish is eating well
10. I gradually increase the salinity to 1.026 by adding water from my main system for top off.

I do have initial losses due to shipping stresses. Absent difficult-to-diagnose things like potential cyanide, those losses are either floaters-in-the-bag or occur within the first couple of days. Beyond that, losses are minimal, mainly due to any diseases that may crop up and prove stubborn to treatment. Things like uronema in anthias, bacterial infections or physical injuries. I generally like to keep fish in QT for a month, though some go longer.

Probably missed a step or two; I'll amend if so.