Dkh over 24 even after vinegar and water changes

Phearghail · Mar 24, 2020

Good afternoon all,

I have read a lot on here before doing anything and up till sunday, I had a stable thriving young tank 4-5 months old. I had corals that were thriving and growing except for one florida ricordea. Before saturdays testings I was 8.3 ph, 0 ammonia nitrite and trace nitrate .02-.04 phosphate and Dkh was always between 8.0-8.4, when I fridays on sunday everything except dkh was the same. Dkh was down to 5.9 and so I dosed 50 ml of part1 bionic. Corals started closing and receding and tests yesterday and today api and hanna checker exceed 20, api about 24 based on drops 20 is the max the hanna reads. Since sunday I have changed now 30 gallons in 10 gallon changes as that's all the room I have, and dosed 55ml of white vinegar I dont have muriatic acid on hand, this is all for a 55 gallon tank and a 7 gallon sump. I would have thought this would have come down. The problem is I'm losing a ricordea and my elegance who up until this weekend were beautiful.

I am preparing another 10 gallons of saltwater but am afraid it wont help, i have pulled my elegance and mushroom and placed in a bucket of fresh saltwater to try and help them recover.

Any thought on why the dkh wont come down?

Thanks, phear

Flippers4pups · Mar 24, 2020

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Trying to do the math. I'm assuming with what you said, 50ml would equate to you having a 200 gallon tank? B ionic states 1ml for every 4 gallons to start.

Now using a reefing calculator, assuming you have a 200 gallon tank, to go from 5.9 dkh up to 8 dkh, you would need 810ml of part one.

So something is way off, assuming your dosing of 50ml of part one.

So, what size tank do you have?

homer1475 · Mar 24, 2020

Somethings not right here......

According to this calc:
Reef Chemistry Calc

For a 55G tank you would have had to add 1921.8ml of b-ionic to go from 5.9 to 24DKH. The 50ml you adde3d would only have gotten you to 6.4 from 5.9.

So either your test kits are off, or somethings not right.

Flippers4pups · Mar 24, 2020

homer1475 said:
Somethings not right here......

According to this calc:
Reef Chemistry Calc

For a 55G tank you would have had to add 1921.8ml of b-ionic to go from 5.9 to 24DKH. The 50ml you adde3d would only have gotten you to 6.4 from 5.9.

So either your test kits are off, or somethings not right.

Exactly. I suspect a testing error. I hope! 5.9 to 24 would be a two litter of soda worth. 64 oz!

Albertan22 · Mar 24, 2020

Did you test your new saltwater with the same kits to see what they read?

MTBake · Mar 24, 2020

Get a second opinion from a lfs if you can. Take a sample of water for them to test to see if their results match what you get. Make sure salinity is good also.

Phearghail · Mar 24, 2020

Flippers4pups said:
Trying to do the math. I'm assuming with what you said, 50ml would equate to you having a 200 gallon tank? B ionic states 1ml for every 4 gallons to start.

Now using a reefing calculator, assuming you have a 200 gallon tank, to go from 5.9 dkh up to 8 dkh, you would need 810ml of part one.

So something is way off, assuming your dosing of 50ml of part one.

So, what size tank do you have?

I had been dosing previously 12.5 ml every other

Albertan22 said:
Did you test your new saltwater with the same kits to see what they read?

The fresh saltwater comes in at 10.8

Flippers4pups · Mar 24, 2020

Phearghail said:
I had been dosing previously 12.5 ml every other

The fresh saltwater comes in at 10.8

We suspect a testing error. You would have to dose a great deal to get it that high.

Before doing anything else, take a sample to your LFS and have them test it. If you can't do that, get a better test kit like salifert or Red Sea.

In the mean time, water changes wouldn't hurt. I wouldn't try to add anymore vinegar, it will only lead to a bacterial bloom.

Phearghail · Mar 24, 2020

Also I just noticed my pom pom have melted away

.
So background, I had been dosing part 1 of bionic 2 part with a weekly 10% water change maintain alkalinity at about 8.4 avg up to month 3 added some zoas and mushrooms to start. No swings but noticed dinos started talked to Lfs and read on here and re commendations were black out or dose phos/nitrates, does to readable numbers maintaining above trace didnt go crazy. Things stayed the same till last weekend. Lost all snails pom pom, 2 cleaner shrimp, maybe the elegance and ricordea orange. Retested the tank water as well and api has it finally down to 18dkh but hanna still has it at 20. As for going to LFS currently not an option as I'm in california and most have been ordered to close.

Flippers4pups · Mar 24, 2020

I would discontinue the 2 part, especially if you only have softies and a few LPS. weekly water changes should be enough to keep levels stable with a 55 gallon.

Flippers4pups · Mar 24, 2020

What's your other water parameters?

W1ngz · Mar 24, 2020

Something got in the tank. If you can get reasonable numbers from fresh mixed water and crazy numbers from the tank, you need bigger water changes. 5 and 10 gallon changes are not effective. Even if you have to drop the display water level and cut the return pump while you mix another 10 or 15 gallons, change the biggest volume of water you can all at once.

Vinegar will lower pH, but I've not heard it as a solution for alkalinity. I'd stop that, fast.

Entz · Mar 24, 2020

Was this a new bottle that wasn't diluted? or how quickly was it added?

I am wondering if it spiked your PH through the roof or it ended up hitting the corals directly combined with a testing kit issue (24 seems high). Which is causing things to die, which causes ammonia spikes, which cascade fails a tank.

# wise that is correct dose. At least according to ESV and the calculator. 1ml / gallon for ~2.07 DKH . So your 50 shouldn't of caused any real issue (unless your volume is WAY lower) but speed maybe? But that is a slow drip over a few days amount.

Phearghail · Mar 24, 2020

Flippers4pups said:
What's your other water parameters?

O ammonia, 0 nitrite, barely readable nitrate ph 8.3 phosphate .037 have not checked calcium yet

And I have stopped all dosing

Flippers4pups · Mar 24, 2020

Phearghail said:
O ammonia, 0 nitrite, barely readable nitrate ph 8.3 phosphate .037 have not checked calcium yet

And I have stopped all dosing

Good. How long have you had the tank up and running?

Phearghail · Mar 24, 2020

Flippers4pups said:
Good. How long have you had the tank up and running?

About 5 months

Flippers4pups · Mar 24, 2020

Okay. Let's keep it simple going forward.

With the corals that have perished I would run some GAC (granular activated carbon) this will remove some organic compounds from the water.

Perform another round of water changes to see if you can get the DKH down to at least 10.

Phearghail · Mar 24, 2020

Flippers4pups said:
Okay. Let's keep it simple going forward.

With the corals that have perished I would run some GAC (granular activated carbon) this will remove some organic compounds from the water.

Perform another round of water changes to see if you can get the DKH down to at least 10.

Yup active carbon and gfo currently in sump with skimmer

Phearghail · Mar 25, 2020

Happy to report down to 15.5 as of today, duncan survived chalice not completely burned, purple ricordea rebounding, zoas just beginning to open although at half the population they were at.

OrangeCountyReefer · Mar 25, 2020

W1ngz said:
Something got in the tank. If you can get reasonable numbers from fresh mixed water and crazy numbers from the tank, you need bigger water changes. 5 and 10 gallon changes are not effective. Even if you have to drop the display water level and cut the return pump while you mix another 10 or 15 gallons, change the biggest volume of water you can all at once.

Vinegar will lower pH, but I've not heard it as a solution for alkalinity. I'd stop that, fast.

This.. Id do the biggest water change possible. 80 to 90%