Do Corals help with ICH managment?

[revhtree Verified Admin]

So this question of the day comes to us as a suggestion from one of our R2R family members and to be honest it's pretty intriguing to me. ICH is a fish disease that we all hate and have probably dealt with or will deal with at some point in time. I'm not going to go into detail about ICH because most of us know about it and if you don't then here you go!

ICH has several stages of life which involve being attached to the fish, free swimming or attached to objects. So here is the idea. If corals eat food in the water column then what stops them from eating "free swimming" ICH or ICH that has fallen off of the fish? Its also suggested that people with a mature reef tank, full of coral colonies, do not experience outbreaks of ICH like others and especially like those who have FO or FOWLR tanks. So let's talk about it today!


Do you think that corals will eat ICH and do you think there is any merit to the thought that corals can help manage ICH?


beautiful reef tank via @robert s b.

 

[Brew12]

So this question of the day comes to us as a suggestion from one of our R2R family members and to be honest it's pretty intriguing to me. ICH is a fish disease that we all hate and have probably dealt with or will deal with at some point in time. I'm not going to go into detail about ICH because most of us know about it and if you don't then here you go!

ICH has several stages of life which involve being attached to the fish, free swimming or attached to objects. So here is the idea. If corals eat food in the water column then what stops them from eating "free swimming" ICH or ICH that has fallen off of the fish? Its also suggested that people with a mature reef tank, full of coral colonies, do not experience outbreaks of ICH like others and especially like those who have FO or FOWLR tanks. So let's talk about it today!


Do you think that corals will eat ICH and do you think there is any merit to the thought that corals can help manage ICH?


beautiful reef tank via @robert s b.

I absolutely think this is the case. They are the correct size in the free swimming stage and I don't see how coral could be discriminatory.

 

[revhtree Verified Admin]

For those that vote NO then please tell us why you think that!

 

[WVNed]

I have pondered this and have never been able to decide if it is the coral or having tank conditions suitable for coral to live in that was the difference. I have never had ich in my fish only tanks either.

Healthy fish do not live in still water.

 

[ca1ore]

Opinions are like $%^&*#$ .... everybody's got one. Are there any scientific studies I wonder (I have looked before and not found anything)? I recall Charles Delbeek (I think?) speculating on this topic as a way to explain why ich seems less problematic in a reef tank. Although I've no idea whether the free swimming stage of ich is of acceptable size to be coral polyp prey, everything in nature gets eaten by something else so I tended to agree with his musings. Yet, are the conditions under which corals thrive also better for the fish, thus they are healthier. I voted yes, corals do help, but it is just as likely that its correlation rather than causation.

Edit - actually think it might have been Terry Siegel in an early issue of Aquarium Frontiers.

 

[jda]

Anything that can eat a tomont/tomite can help. I guess corals could. Diverse sand and rock microfauna population certainly seems to help for sure. It is more likely a maturity thing...and you usually have to have mature tanks to have larger coral colonies.

EDIT: I voted maybe. Ich used to be a new-tank type of thing and it mostly went away as tanks got mature and microfauna populated the tank. Now, it is a sterile tank type of thing, but people did not used to start tanks with dead rock and sand looking for no diversity - what they do not know is that they are getting a petri dish for ich to thrive for a long time with no diversity and microfauna on the way anytime soon.

 

[Brandon3152134]

I would think there must be certain species that would grab ich and eat it but I have never observed it

 

[ScubaFish802]

Wow! I would of never thought of this. It makes total sense though

 

[SaltyT]

Great thread topic! I voted yes because I do believe corals help, but no idea to what extent. I agree with others above that microfauna are bigger contributors to ich management.

 

[brandon429]

can we cure and prevent ich to a high degree by simply maturing out a reef with well-fed corals, and then adding fish that have not been quarantined? How would that work in the fish disease forum if we tried it, curious as a prediction

*i have no doubt fifteen reefers with awesome tanks have done that well.

But if we click the fish disease forum, where there's work to be done, who's posting what in there getting results regarding crypto prevention and or management> that w be a great place to try out the coral density model for management

 

[Flippers4pups]

The question should be "does coral help Manage or mitigate the effects of ich on fish in our tanks."

That would be highly dependent on the number, health, coral types in ones tank and what type and number of fish. All of this would be dependent on the total water volume of ones tank as well.

It's a loaded question that has little to no answer to it.

As a long time hobbyist, I would have to say no.

 

[Brew12]

Typical theronts of a studied strain were 25x60um (Colorni 1985).
According to Sorkin (1973) SPS corals consumed dinoflagellates (Amphidinium and Gymnodinium) which are between 35um and 60um in diameter. Studied corals included Montipora, Acropora, Pavona, and Pocillopora and Porites, with only Porites no consuming the dino's.

So we know that theronts are an acceptable size for coral food, are very similar to a known food source, and are too poor of swimmers to avoid coral in a high flow reef tank.

Sorokin also found that ciliates up to 200um in length and brine shrimp up to 400um in length can be consumed by corals. This would fall into the sweet spot for the protomonts looking for a solid surface to encyst on which can be a challenge in a mature reef tank.

While I am not aware of any studies that have been done specifically on this, I think it is a reasonable assumption that corals would be effective in at least reducing CI numbers since they can feed on them in both free swimming stages. Of course, some corals would be more effective than others.

 

[sp1187]

sure, why not.

 

[UkiahTheTurtle]

I said no because I don't really think coral would want to eat a parasite

 

[ScootScoot]

I just said Maybe , it could be yes or no . I guess it depends on the coral too right ? Ones with bigger mouths could catch the reproductive factor that the parasite makes , the new offspring of the parasite has 48 hrs to find a new host before they die I think right ? That’s ample amount of time for a corals mouth to be open and catch one of these suckers to end that cycle , eventually the parasite will die with the main host ... maaaaaybe , haha , intriguing.... ;Bookworm

 

[KrisReef]

No! Have you ever had a coral pull out a bottle of copper and medicate your tank? They are not going to do that! They might thank you for lunch if you do introduce ich-food into their tank.

How do corals and fish coexist in nature?

 

[mindme]

In the same way trees help manage hurricanes I guess.

 

[ca1ore]

can we cure and prevent ich to a high degree by simply maturing out a reef with well-fed corals, and then adding fish that have not been quarantined? How would that work in the fish disease forum if we tried it, curious as a prediction

*i have no doubt fifteen reefers with awesome tanks have done that well.

But if we click the fish disease forum, where there's work to be done, who's posting what in there getting results regarding crypto prevention and or management> that w be a great place to try out the coral density model for management

At the risk of going down the proverbial rabbit hole, it has always struck me as odd that some folks are able to successfully manage ich and others are not. What are the variables that determine success or failure. Fish health, certainly, and I have speculated that perhaps different strains of ich are more potent than others. I have also mused on the role that coral might play as ich predator. Posed this question on RC years ago and was mostly dismissed out of hand, but the notion has always stayed with me. An UV sterilizer won’t eradicate ich from a tank, but it appears likely to reduce the level of the parasite analogous to the dilution effect on wild reefs. Why not coral predation playing a role too.

I don’t see coral as predator being mutually exclusive with quarantine. I QT all new fish (not just for disease) because keeping parasites out of the display seems like a sensible thing to do. QT is not 100%, so understanding the dynamics of ich management better also seems sensible.

 

[andrewkw]

For those that vote NO then please tell us why you think that!

IMO anything other than elimination is not a significant help. So while there may be some truth to this theory in slowing down the spread or population of ich I do not consider either of those to be of help as far as my fish are concerned.

If they start showing, I will start catching them. I'll put them in kiddie pools or tanks depending on how many fish I have and wait out the 76 days then return them. It's only happened to me once, back when I had an Achilles tang who was obviously a good indicator fish. That was maybe 2015 or so and I've never seen another spot in my tank since. All the fish I have now are healthy fat and long term residents of my tank. They could probably "handle" an outbreak. That being said I don't want to put them through that and I will still get new fish, if not today or even this year eventually what I have will age out or I will upgrade. While it's not fun to break down a tank do to something like ich I will do it.

I properly QT all incoming fish, all incoming inverts and corals get a non fool proof but usually good enough isolation period before going in my tank. IE they don't spend 76 full days in a fallow environment but they do spend some time usually about 30.

 

[laverda]

Never thought about it before, but I think it is very possible. I think a reef tank is not going to favor ICH like a fish only or FWLR system would. First the higher flow is more likely to prevent the rapid settling. My guess is filter socks, skimmers, UV and other mechanical filtration would capture some. As the remaining ICH settles out a portion are bound to land in corals. Depending on the corals I see no reason why they would not consume them. A portion of the ones that make it to the sand bed and rock surfaces may likely become food for worms, ampepods and copepods. All these combined would lower the numbers, making it easier for fish to tolerate them.