Do New Born Babies Sleep in a King Size Bed

[4FordFamily]

I'm not saying it's wrong to keep the fish, or wrong to purposefully set up temp quarters. Heck, I do it occasionally.

I am saying that there are limits to what may be "ethical". Is 3-6 months ethical? Not my call to make. I wouldn't do it but that has nothing to do with everyone else's decisions. A 10 gallon tank for a tang for a few months? I mean it's better than a 5 gallon for 10 months but I feel like there are more optimal homes for that fish (to use an extreme example of my point)

I mean this is just my .02. That and $0.50 might buy you a cup of coffee.

 

[4FordFamily]

I see no issue in what the OP suggests.
Do what you want.
The mere fact that you are keeping any fish in glass box in your home, compared to in the OCEAN, is just ridiculous.

The contention i was making was not that keeping ocean creatures in a glass box is wrong, rather that we should do our best to provide optimal homes for them given their frame of reference and the already immense change of environment. We should strive to provide good husbandry.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

But I think we're talking about juvenile fish and when they outgrow the tank, they are to be rehomed. He's not saying it's OK to put a larger fish in a too small of a tank for any length of time..... he'll sell it before that happens. The swimming space for a small tang in a small tank can be the same as larger tang in a larger tank.... perhaps it's even less for the larger fish.

 

[Betucker]

And not to be a smart *** lol but infants do sleep in their crib for the first 2 years, just saying lol

He said "live" not "sleep". Also, given the way you talk about fish, this doesn't sound like the hobby for you.

 

[d2mini]

The contention i was making was not that keeping ocean creatures in a glass box is wrong, rather that we should do our best to provide optimal homes for them given their frame of reference and the already immense change of environment. We should strive to provide good husbandry.

Yep, I agree.
And if the OP is smart enough to re-home a fish as it grows, that's fine with me.
I wouldn't put a tang in a 40b, but even putting one in a 200g is quite confined compared to their intended home.
We can't all have Bill Wann sized tanks in our home. So like you say, we do our best. If our best is putting a juvi tang in a 60g and rehoming it when it gets larger, then it is what it is.

 

[David Jones]

I use to grow large specimens to trade for frags in a 65 gallon. I excelled at growing fish and others excelled at growing corals. Some people really struggle to grow fish even when they have tanks @ 180+ gallons.

Thanks, i really appreciate your perspective

 

[David Jones]

I would argue, perhaps this will offend some, but in many of these cases these people cannot afford to have three children in general and it may be best for their family and society if they waited to have children. I know in some areas a studio apartment is something like 3000/mo + so small quarters don't necessarily equate to poverty but I would still argue that it's best for the family to have ample space.

Those are children and that is different than putting fish purposefully in smaller quarters temporarily. I don't see my fish as family necessarily but I absolutely do feel an obligation to provide the best environment and husbandry for these animals that if we are being honest with ourselves really belong in the wild unmolested by humans. The least we can do is try our best to make their stays away from the wild as optimal as possible given our constraints.

Not taking a side just illustrating a point.

Thanks for your honnest perspective, i can see your point in trying to do your best in putting them in a best situation since you have them in captivity

 

[David Jones]

Yep, I agree.
And if the OP is smart enough to re-home a fish as it grows, that's fine with me.
I wouldn't put a tang in a 40b, but even putting one in a 200g is quite confined compared to their intended home.
We can't all have Bill Wann sized tanks in our home. So like you say, we do our best. If our best is putting a juvi tang in a 60g and rehoming it when it gets larger, then it is what it is.

I love your response, and it makes alot of sense

 

[Sabellafella]

Wouldnt see why that would be a problem, i think 95% of the people in this hobbys tanks are virtually too small for some fish they house including myself but man, if its a grouper or somthing like a naso/unicorn tang dont do it if you plan for them to stay a while. I used to grow my fish out for months on end packed in a qt.

 

[4FordFamily]

Also, for what it is worth I grossly overstock my tanks by many people's standards on here so I am in no way on a pedastol here haha

 

[David Jones]

Wouldnt see why that would be a problem, i think 95% of the people in this hobbys tanks are virtually too small for some fish they house including myself but man, if its a grouper or somthing like a naso/unicorn tang dont do it if you plan for them to stay a while. I used to grow my fish out for months on end packed in a qt.

Thanks Bro, its nice to hear that some other hobbiest bend the rules, people on these forums are such harsh critics about putting all the awesome fish in smaller tanks, there like it has to be in at least 300 gallons, im like does it look like i live in a casino, like who spends 2,000 dollars on a tank to just put damsels in it

 

[David Jones]

Also, for what it is worth I grossly overstock my tanks by many people's standards on here so I am in no way on a pedastol here haha

Your the man in my book, i really appreciate your honesty and will deff share a pic of my tank after its stocked

 

[NeuroticAquatics]

Do responsible parents put a baby with a contagious, potentially deadly disease into a nursery with other healthy infants?

If you do not plan to QT, I feel that this is a better analogy than comparing a newborn baby that does not require large space to roam to a juvenile fish that does.

 

[4FordFamily]

Your the man in my book, i really appreciate your honesty and will deff share a pic of my tank after its stocked

Thanks. You better!

 

[zLaEcEh]

Like the OP I once listened to the hype going on about tangs and tank size. Its mostly . Most people won't even keep a fish, let along keep it alive, long enough for it to reach full size. Notice I said most people. But if you have a good lfs and you do somehow keep that hippo tang long enough for it to outgrow your tank then your lfs should have no problem selling you a bigger tank or rehoming your fish.

I have a 90 gallon and I got not just one but 2 tangs in there. OMG some call the tang police these fish will surely die and never be healthy. Only they already been in there for months and they are perfectly healthy.

P.s. I don't qt fish either. If I had a really big tank I would but with my setup it's more trouble than it's worth.

Moral of my story. If you do good maintance and keep good warter quality then as long as the fish has room to swim and ain't stressed you good to go imo

 

[Pola0502ds]

I can say from personal experience about something that just happened to me last week. I purchased a blue hippo for my 72 gallon tank a while ago and now that it had out grown the tank i had to find a new home for it. A local school that my daughter goes to set up a 120 gallon reef tank and needed some fish so i donated the hippo to them knowing in a few years it would need a new home again, i had no other options. When it came time to get the fish out i had to remove all my rock and fight to get him out causing a great deal of stress, get him to his new home, 2 days later he and everyone else in the tank have ich. One died yesterday. Transporting a fish alone is stressful and even more so while the fish is in the tank and a human destroys his home and he has to basically run for his life to try and prevent being captured. Then being in a new tank itself is stressful. I understand what you are saying and had a similar opinion until this just happened. At this point i am 100% against doing what you want to do. Our hobby is constantly under the microscope and anything we can do to prevent deaths is whats needed so less fish get taken out of the ocean.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

I think if you were going to make a practice of this, you should get your fish to not fear a net. 95% of my fish learn to love the net.... which makes me feel a little guilty when I then break their 'trust" and scoop them up.

 

[scchase]

Not that everyone is set up for it but I do it all the time. I frequently buy juvenile fish, they are generally more adaptable, and grow them out some in one of my smaller aquariums, typically something around a 60 and in the case of a couple tiny angels I have bought over the years even as small as a 10. Once they get big enough to make it they go on to either my 480 or the 600 gallon pond. With the other fish, feeding concerns, and the small size some of these guys come in at just putting them in one of the big tanks to start would end in their deaths nearly every time.

 

[Pola0502ds]

Not that everyone is set up for it but I do it all the time. I frequently buy juvenile fish, they are generally more adaptable, and grow them out some in one of my smaller aquariums, typically something around a 60 and in the case of a couple tiny angels I have bought over the years even as small as a 10. Once they get big enough to make it they go on to either my 480 or the 600 gallon pond. With the other fish, feeding concerns, and the small size some of these guys come in at just putting them in one of the big tanks to start would end in their deaths nearly every time.

Since you said pond, im assuming you're talking fresh water only?

 

[Pola0502ds]

I think if you were going to make a practice of this, you should get your fish to not fear a net. 95% of my fish learn to love the net.... which makes me feel a little guilty when I then break their 'trust" and scoop them up.

So, what is your secret to getting your fish to "love" the net, lol.