**** DO NOT BUY AN APEX****

[Panky]

One thing I did learn from all of this is that if you must leave town or have an extended stay away from your tank, break your Apex down to a bare minimum.

 

[NeverlosT]

Wellp, I certainly wont change anyones minds here.

I'll gladly admit that the apex is not perfect. Fusion connection can be finicky,

you would be wrong... there is no data or evidence to suggest that any not mentioning 2/3 of the problems with apex relate to programming....... Thats a ridiculous statement even on a friendly site


TOTALLY ridiculo0us. You are speaking from your personal experience I have a totally different one

Lol passive aggressive much?

The Base Apex is a computer:
microcontroller
several relays
Digital and analog in/out
probes
Program

4 out of those 5 are standard components and practices, not left up to the average hobbyist who typically has little or no experience with them. They are tested, and prove to work successfully for the vast majority of people (not saying failures aren't possible, just with low probability and are predictable based on component sourcing).

The remaining item is programming, which is put in the hands of folks who often have never programmed, don't understand the concepts/language, and can render 1-4 useless by incorrectly telling the computer what to do. (Heater: Fallback: ON, then the apex head unit loses connectivity and boom tank is nuked).

Anyhow, I have no stock in Neptune Systems and I don't care all that much about their reputation. I just don't want a beginner to see this and view a tank controller as a vulnerability when in fact, if applied correctly, it is a massive asset to a reef aquarium.

Good luck all.

 

[HuneyBear]

One thing I did learn from all of this is that if you must leave town or have an extended stay away from your tank, break your Apex down to a bare minimum.

Than what Is the point in owning one then? You might as well go back to the way it used to be with powerbars and surge strips. Someone already said it’s not needed it’s a luxury. However it’s a luxury that can work as long as you don’t fully trust it for life support unless you are a computer programmer by profession. It just seems overly complicated to be honest. Not trying to be the one to start the same old argument as every other one has. But why can I never seem to find all of the Profilux tank crash threads. This is not a bash on any system but seriously it’s all apex issues left and right in the whole controller forum. And it’s not the classic controller, it’s since the 2016. But they outdated the classic so if you want the new stuff you have to get a new unit. I understand software size and what not but it was quality over quantity with the classic. I mean they made the name themselves. Apex2016= New Coke. Everyone misses the Classic Coke.
@Joedubyk any updates on getting issues handled and resolved.

 

[TheOne]

Than what Is the point in owning one then? You might as well go back to the way it used to be with powerbars and surge strips. Someone already said it’s not needed it’s a luxury. However it’s a luxury that can work as long as you don’t fully trust it for life support unless you are a computer programmer by profession. It just seems overly complicated to be honest. Not trying to be the one to start the same old argument as every other one has. But why can I never seem to find all of the Profilux tank crash threads. This is not a bash on any system but seriously it’s all apex issues left and right in the whole controller forum. And it’s not the classic controller, it’s since the 2016. But they outdated the classic so if you want the new stuff you have to get a new unit. I understand software size and what not but it was quality over quantity with the classic. I mean they made the name themselves. Apex2016= New Coke. Everyone misses the Classic Coke.
@Joedubyk any updates on getting issues handled and resolved.

Having owned both I can answer that. Because 90% of ghl owners aren't US based. Now if you head over to their forum you will see they have a GHL English section.

The best advice I can give is to have someone on standby anytime you have to leave your tank for awhile. That is where having a good relationship with your lfs or a friend that knows the hobby becomes invaluable.

My tank is fully automated but would I trust it 100%. No way in a million years. Do I sleep better when I'm out of town knowing I can monitor what is happening and get alerted immediately if something goes wrong. 100% I do.

Just last week I was watching tv and recieved an alert that my return pump failed. I was sitting 15 feet from the tank and probably wouldn't have noticed it at all. I was able to swap out the failed pump with a backup within an hour. That included measuring, cutting and gluing new pvc fittings.

 

[User1]

What is this lol

Do you remember that scene in E.T. when Michael meets E.T. for the first time....?
Anyway...

OP: Frustration aside it is not cool to start Firestarter threads like this. If you are posting out of frustration it would help everyone here, on the forum, if you listed out a bit more information as to why you are frustrated or why you are posting as you are in case people want to try to help. Right now all you are going to do is get wet because everyone is going to throw water on you...

What is the issue
What have you done to try and trouble shoot, isolate, identify
Have you sent in a ticket to support (hopefully calmer than this post to include more information)
Have you searched Neptune's forums, or here, or posted a exact problem in the controller sub forum

I've sent in tickets on a Saturday expecting a call Monday or Tuesday and received a call later on Saturday afternoon oddly enough. The team while not mandatory does scan the emails in case something is urgent that they can help with to get the hobbyist through until the next week day. Happened to me just recently in fact. Not saying this is your case but if you haven't reached out to support I strongly suggest you do. With any company or product or vendor if you have issues after you try and isolate and can't resolve.

Starting a thread like this though - isn't going to help anyone. Hope you get your issues worked out. Whatever they are or resell and buy the next product.

 

[User1]

The best advice I can give is to have someone on standby anytime you have to leave your tank for awhile. That is where having a good relationship with your lfs or a friend that knows the hobby becomes invaluable.

Such a very important, and true, point here. Regardless of controller/monitor brand if you are going away for a while and no one is in the home nothing can be more secure than having someone on standby or checking in daily. Personally speaking I can't like this post enough because it is so simple to do.

We lost our 100 gallon tank back in 2000 - 2001 in the California made up electricity crisis ENRON. Vacation. Controller (Neptune with the X10 relays). Family reunion so no one near to check. Back to back blackouts tripped the AC circuit breaker but rest of house was fine. NO AC. Tank water evaporated faster than what I planned for, ATO ran dry, pumps seized, and the rest is history. Lost everything. Not the controllers fault. Hobbyist fault 100%.

Had I set up a daily visit by a neighbor to check in I would have caught this and still have the tank to this day.... So yeah - huge point you raised.

 

[MnFish1]

Wellp, I certainly wont change anyones minds here.

I'll gladly admit that the apex is not perfect. Fusion connection can be finicky,

Lol passive aggressive much?

The Base Apex is a computer:
microcontroller
several relays
Digital and analog in/out
probes
Program

4 out of those 5 are standard components and practices, not left up to the average hobbyist who typically has little or no experience with them. They are tested, and prove to work successfully for the vast majority of people (not saying failures aren't possible, just with low probability and are predictable based on component sourcing).

The remaining item is programming, which is put in the hands of folks who often have never programmed, don't understand the concepts/language, and can render 1-4 useless by incorrectly telling the computer what to do. (Heater: Fallback: ON, then the apex head unit loses connectivity and boom tank is nuked).

Anyhow, I have no stock in Neptune Systems and I don't care all that much about their reputation. I just don't want a beginner to see this and view a tank controller as a vulnerability when in fact, if applied correctly, it is a massive asset to a reef aquarium.

Good luck all.

Sorry - I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive - I was trying to say that you were wrong. There is no way to know that 2/3 of apex failures are due to programming. Mine certainly was not. I used the word 'ridiculous' because you used it in another post on this thread.

I agree with you that the original post is strong in wording - and I would not say 'don't buy an apex' - But - I guess my message for a beginner is - you can do quite well with a reef tank with no controller - you learn a lot by looking at the tank, and monitoring/testing it yourself. After you have more experience - to me - a controller can be invaluable.

 

[Thaxxx]

Sorry - I wasn't trying to be passive aggressive - I was trying to say that you were wrong. There is no way to know that 2/3 of apex failures are due to programming. Mine certainly was not. I used the word 'ridiculous' because you used it in another post on this thread.

I agree with you that the original post is strong in wording - and I would not say 'don't buy an apex' - But - I guess my message for a beginner is - you can do quite well with a reef tank with no controller - you learn a lot by looking at the tank, and monitoring/testing it yourself. After you have more experience - to me - a controller can be invaluable.

Oh you don't need to try to be passive aggressive... Almost all your posts have conflict in them. It comes natural.

 

[TheOne]

Such a very important, and true, point here. Regardless of controller/monitor brand if you are going away for a while and no one is in the home nothing can be more secure than having someone on standby or checking in daily. Personally speaking I can't like this post enough because it is so simple to do.

We lost our 100 gallon tank back in 2000 - 2001 in the California made up electricity crisis ENRON. Vacation. Controller (Neptune with the X10 relays). Family reunion so no one near to check. Back to back blackouts tripped the AC circuit breaker but rest of house was fine. NO AC. Tank water evaporated faster than what I planned for, ATO ran dry, pumps seized, and the rest is history. Lost everything. Not the controllers fault. Hobbyist fault 100%.

Had I set up a daily visit by a neighbor to check in I would have caught this and still have the tank to this day.... So yeah - huge point you raised.

Honestly alot of it comes down to luck. This year alone we have had hurricanes knock out our power for 8+ hours and a f2 tornado that came straight thru our subdivision. The only reason my tank is still running is because I over prepared for every worse case scenario I could possibly imagine. Would an Apex have saved the day? No, but it definately helped. Luckily through all of that there were no losses.

 

[pirate2876]

Jeesh, I'm still running a Reefkeeper Lite

 

[amazongb]

OP: Are your heaters plugged into #4 and #8 outlets? If not, they might be throwing the EB8 breaker.. #4 and #8 are 10 amps, while the others are 5 amps. The entire current draw cannot exceed 15 amps.. so double check your load if you haven't already.

It just completely shuts down. No rhyme or reason. Was working great for 4 months. Now it just shuts down. Everything The entire energy bar....

Does the breaker on the EB8 get thrown?

What size are your heater(s) ?

 

[Bacon505]

I’ll gladly take all those horrible apex equipments from you. Heck, i’ll pay for the shipping. Give you peace of mind

 

[MnFish1]

Oh you don't need to try to be passive aggressive... Almost all your posts have conflict in them. It comes natural.

Hmmmm...

 

[Reefcowboy]

One thing I did learn from all of this is that if you must leave town or have an extended stay away from your tank, break your Apex down to a bare minimum.

Absolutely not. The large majority have their packed with modules and never have issues. I've had my own hiccups but had it running at no time. Recently left town for 10 days, thankfully my apex gave me peace of mind to know I had layers of safety and ability to check where things were from far.

Posts like this are click baits rather than expressing frustration, as there are better means of expressing a problem asking for help. Of course there are also the GHL geniuses who found heaven switching away from neptune, and of course they never had issues(or never admit) with their God like tech.

 

[amazongb]

An issue I've noticed with this hobby is that I feel I have to have extra components on hand in case of failures. I have an extra return pump, heaters, etc, but never thought about having an extra EB8 on hand. I do have multiple tanks, so I could switch things around if I have to.. but, i do agree that the dependency on controllers can be challenging when something fails.

 

[TheOne]

An issue I've noticed with this hobby is that I feel I have to have extra components on hand in case of failures. I have an extra return pump, heaters, etc, but never thought about having an extra EB8 on hand. I do have multiple tanks, so I could switch things around if I have to.. but, i do agree that the dependency on controllers can be challenging when something fails.

That's all hobbies in general. I have boxes of parts I take with me when I fly my RC quadcopters. Same for racing go karts. If you show up with just your kart I wouldn't expect to finish the day and still be racing. Or If you've ever been sitting in the middle of a lake in the pouring down rain taking apart a clogged up carburetor on a 10k engine. Everything eventually fails.

There is one thing I can promise you. The outcome will come down to the preperation. Either you are prepared or you aren't.

 

[amazongb]

That's all hobbies in general. I have boxes of parts I take with me when I fly my RC quadcopters. Same for racing go karts. If you show up with just your kart I wouldn't expect to finish the day and still be racing. Or If you've ever been sitting in the middle of a lake in the pouring down rain taking apart a clogged up carburetor on a 10k engine. Everything eventually fails.

There is one thing I can promise you. The outcome will come down to the preperation. Either you are prepared or you aren't.

I was into racing RC cars with my kids, and you are correct my friend, I showed up to each event with two cars and many backup parts. It comes with trial and error of course, which we experience in this hobby a lot.

 

[User1]

That's all hobbies in general. I have boxes of parts I take with me when I fly my RC quadcopters. Same for racing go karts. If you show up with just your kart I wouldn't expect to finish the day and still be racing. Or If you've ever been sitting in the middle of a lake in the pouring down rain taking apart a clogged up carburetor on a 10k engine. Everything eventually fails.

There is one thing I can promise you. The outcome will come down to the preperation. Either you are prepared or you aren't.

Spare tires... Spare air (SCUBA)...

Then again I also had a set of rims and wheels that I'd take with my on my track events (only used on tracks). Don't want the miles or road hazards (nail, screws, Et al) on the way to Sears Point, then hot lapping my Mustang only to blow a tire at 130+ MPH and end up upside down...(yes, I've seen this happen).

Point is you are correct. All hobbies have spares and some of it is just as critical as our fish tanks be it a tire or spare air. You don't need a controller. You don't need a skimmer. You do though need to design the system with life support in mind and have proper spares of criticle components. If one doesn't that is their choice as an acceptable risk.

 

[TheOne]

Spare tires... Spare air (SCUBA)...

Then again I also had a set of rims and wheels that I'd take with my on my track events (only used on tracks). Don't want the miles or road hazards (nail, screws, Et al) on the way to Sears Point, then hot lapping my Mustang only to blow a tire at 130+ MPH and end up upside down...(yes, I've seen this happen).

Point is you are correct. All hobbies have spares and some of it is just as critical as our fish tanks be it a tire or spare air. You don't need a controller. You don't need a skimmer. You do though need to design the system with life support in mind and have proper spares of criticle components. If one doesn't that is their choice as an acceptable risk.

I got into skydiving once and went thru AFF training. Keep in mind these rigs cost anywhere from 7k up and I watched in amazement as some of these guys jumped dozens of times a day with no aad (automatic activation device). Basically if they blacked out or became unconscious it was game over. Now that my friend is the one time I think I would want a failsafe.

 

[MartinWaite]

Seriously, that is what this forum is all about!

Surely you mean this is a part of what the hobby is all about helping each other out whenever we can.


I must say that I wouldn't have an apex not even if given to me I believe that they are a great contribution to the hobbyist that works away for days/weeks at a time but for anyone home everyday then no there is no need for one especially if you are wanting to do the hobby and it's not just about having that show piece tank but getting into the system and checking it all yourself. But then that's my 2 cents worth