Do you ever feel bad about..

[stevewright1]

the only time I ever feel bad about keeping fish in an aquarium is when one of them dies
at that stage I do feel guilty because if it had not been in my tank, maybe it would still be alive
I do however get over those feelings quickly, when I notice something that is doing well in my aquarium and it reminds me of why I enjoy the hobby so much.

I do keep fish for selfish reasons, I like the look of a reef aquarium , a living work of art that I can actively participate in creating and maintaining (it's also great to have a home based hobby in my opinion)

I do keep it simple and don't try to keep fish, inverts or corals et that are classified as "Hard to keep" as I want the ones I do have to be around for a long time.

 

[ZoWhat]

When fish die they go to Fish Heaven and can swim in one direction into infinity

 

[EmptyWallet]

Degrees of guilt for sure. I have a 6x3x2 and the small tangs seem perfectly happy. My Moorish Idol (which I got as a baby) is huge now and I feel very guilty today that he isn't free to roam the ocean as nature intended. I love the Zoo analogy and the conversation. Yes I take my kids to the Zoo, but I also feel terrible when i'm there looking at the misery in the animals faces (especially the apes). My fish would feel like they are locked in a 1 bedroom apartment - safe from predators with nowhere to go and nothing to do...

One thing is for sure I feel guilty supporting the fish collection trade and the associative suffering/deaths - watch a few youtubes on collection - its harsh, especially in the third world countries. I say to people when I buy a fish I condemn 5 others. Is it any worse than eating meat/fish, keeping a kelpie in an apartment etc. probably not... but that doesn't make it right

Big thumbs up for anyone involved in OR supporting capitve bred!

 

[JCRove06]

Personally, I think any responsible reefer has these sentiments in the back of their mind. It’s incentivizes is to keep up on good husbandry. Respectfully said.

What does marriage have to do with it?

 

[Punchanello]

Ethical discussions are tricky because we're not all starting from the same assumptions. But its often good to keep in mind that the person who doesnt share your ethical conclusions may be neither crazy nor a monster.

From my own perspective, all this talk about the "ethics" of keeping fish in a box appears moot, since I kill and eat fish and other animals on a regular basis. Since death is unarguably worse than being put in a box, it would make no sense to consider eating fish ethical and keeping them in a box unethical. Flawed logic.

It is a misapplication of ethical principles to try to apply them to fish. To correct the movie quote: Fish are food, not friends. But since they are also cool to look at, I keep some in a box in my living room. Applying ethical principles to animals makes about as much sense to me as applying them to carrots.

I like my fish a lot, and strive to keep them as healthy as possible. I just don't get confused about whether they're people or fish.

I don't know about that, it's not a zero-sum game. Sure, fish aren't people, but they aren't carrots either. There's a spectrum of sentience. Do they have a concept of self? Probably not and they have this in common with a carrot. Do they have a nervous system, experience some form of emotional distress and form social bonds? Yes, but carrots don't.

 

[Punchanello]

One thing is for sure I feel guilty supporting the fish collection trade and the associative suffering/deaths - watch a few youtubes on collection - its harsh, especially in the third world countries. I say to people when I buy a fish I condemn 5 others.

This is what bothers me the most as well. I've got much better at treating sick fish, but have lost far too many getting them ready for my DT for my liking let alone those that didn't even make it to the shop.

 

[Proteus Meep]

Yes i do... that is why i will only keep fish that have a small territory and don't have a large swimming range in the wild, i like to give each fish plenty of room as well

I currently have a 55 litre nano with one green clown goby and consider that fully stocked

 

[vetteguy53081]

Im feeding these fish mussel, clam, shrimp, caviar, plankton, kelp, aminos, vitamins squid, scallops,etc and I feel bad first for them??
I feel bad for me........ they eat better than i do !!!

 

[dwayvick]

Overstocking used to be a key consideration in the 80s and 90s, at least with my group of friends. Many of the manufacturers would even market the idea of making sure aquariums were not overstocked.
My current tank just hit 7 months so I figured I would search 7 month old reef tanks on YouTube to see how mine looks in comparison and I had a hard time even finding ANY video of a tank that wasn’t grotesquely overstocked.
Equipment has certainly developed enough to manage overstocking but to the OP’s point, even a 400 gallon volume of water in nature typically doesn’t have that much life packed in such a small space.
I would certainly like to see some of the “movers and shakers” in the socialverse and industry at least make it part of the discussion, but the decision is still ultimately ours.

So been thinking lately, does anyone ever feel bad about keeping fish that are used to acres and acres of ocean to swim in (tangs for instance), and they get cooped up in small boxes of water? Corals ok they are stationary so thats cool. I love the hobby and have no plans on quitting, but there are brief moments where I feel like I have the fish version of a zoo. Like my purple tang is the equivalent of a lion in a cage at the zoo, he could do so much more, but the cage reduces him to pacing back and forth.

Is it just me?

 

[Elegance Coral]

Not at all.
People think living in the wild is a beautiful and magical thing for animals to do, but no one wants to leave the comforts of their climate controlled homes and return to being a hunter/gatherer.
Nature is harsh. Animals are constantly fighting for space, and a chance to mate. I can remove both in my tank.
Fish in the wild are constantly worried about being eaten. A fear they don't have in my tank. This is why many "schooling" fish don't show that behavior in captivity.
Food availability is constant in my tank and doesn't change with season, or spawning behavior of other animals.
My fish don't have to worry about storms destroying their habitat, or extremes of seasonal changes like temperature.
My fish don't fall prey to parasites that make them ill, and shorten their lives.

My fish have it pretty good. Even my dog knows life's better on the couch, in the AC, than it is outside in the Florida heat.

Peace
EC

 

[AZMSGT]

I might be fooling myself, but I’m in this hobby because I want to help preserve what we have. I fear we as hobbyists might some day be asked to donate and help bring back lost reefs.

 

[mta_morrow]

I don’t feel bad about keeping fish in a tank. I take very good care of them and keep a peaceful group that don’t need to fear each other.

I also don’t mind killing cows and eating steak or a good hog roast.

I also eat fish

 

[ducati1212]

Some fish have a 6 inch spot they live there whole life in the wild. not all fish are free swimming. they get a nook and fight for it. I try to treat my fish like any pet and I do try to by captive bred.

I know it perpetuates people taking fish if I buy them BUT I feel like when I buy a fish its already caught and in a store and I will treat it better than who ever else might get it. Not the best logic but its what I got.

 

[ADAM]

The dinner/ pet debate is interesting. If you look at how the cows that provide the majority of beef in this country are housed until they are butchered you'd probably argue they'd rather be in our aquariums!

I think most fish are thinking "food, food, food, sleep, food, food, food, sleep"

 

[ruegaroo]

I feel like as long as you are giving proper care and attention to the animals that you keep, you should feel good about it and not guilty. If you cannot provide a decent living environment for your pets then you shouldn't have pets. It is not fair to them at that point.

Any decent zoo will do whatever they can to provide a luxurious life for their animals. They receive healthcare, dental care, large meals, various forms of stimulation and enrichment, among other amenities that they wouldn't receive in the wild. Some of these animals are getting birthday cakes. The monkeys at my local zoo were even given Easter eggs to hunt down as a form of enrichment when the holiday came along. Zoos are also heavily involved in exotic species breeding programs. Your grand kids may never get to live with giraffes or rhinos in their world if it wasn't for zoos. It is important to support your local zoo if it provides a healthy lifestyle for their animals.

Ultimately, it is our responsibility to give our animals the best care and attention they can get. You should feel guilty if you don't provide this.

 

[Timfish]

I have fish outliving their wild counter parts. I'm doing better than mother nature. I also have had only a couple of instances of obvious steriotypy behavior which I've been able to correct either by altering feeding times/methods/type or by rehoming. On this subject I would encourage everyone to read Temple Grandin's book "Animals make Us Human".

 

[Bleigh]

I think it’s not wholly ethical. Though, a vegetarian might see eating meat as unethical. I suspect keeping fish in aquariums have a lower market presence than does fishing. Would I have issues if the same fish were being caught and ate? Only if they were doing so unsustainably. A lot of what has been learned in reefing has turned around and been used to improve health of reefs. Some reefs have been repropogated using corals that were bred in tanks. I wouldn’t buy more fish than I would eat, so as long as I’m keeping them alive, I just tell myself “fish are friends, not food”. ;Happy
And if I ever change my mind, I have the freshest catch sitting in my living room. ;HilariousJ/k

 

[MnFish1]

Not sure on this one. The vast majority of fish collected don’t survive more than a year after collection. I think a lucky few may live longer lives in our aquariums but most don’t survive long after capture.

When you consider how many 'fry' are produced in an average 'spawning' in the wild - and how many fish survive - I think to me - its kind of a moot point (i.e. the vast majority of fish do not survive in the wild) - note - Not at all condoning or minimizing some of the treatment of fish, etc during transport - or those people who don't care for their tanks.

 

[MnFish1]

I like to think I have respect for all living things - except a recent hornets nest in the back yard... I have no qualms (ethical or otherwise) - keeping fish/coral in my tank (s) including tangs, etc. I also think most zoos currently do not have (or at least are NOT supposed to have) animals displaying obvious neurotic behavior (nor should we in our tanks).

This is an interesting thread - and without choosing any one post - I think that overall the fish in our tanks do better than 1. In the fish store in which they came, 2. The wholesaler from which they came and 3 Probably better than the ocean from which they came. I feel no guilt for the animals for which I care.

I see personalities in my fish. But I try not to 'overanalyze' what they are feeling, wanting. If one of my tangs chases another for 5 seconds - I dont worry about it (because usually the next time its the other one chasing the first one) - most of the time everyone gets along.

If anyone has kept reading this far - I would make this point about zoos and tanks. At least zoos are run by 'professionals'. If anything is 'unethical' its the fact that ANYONE can own an aquarium with no training, etc - reading some of the threads here - everyone knows what I mean - I just got a 40 gallon tank - and put in 10 fish and 20 coral now everything is dying. That I find unethical/a problem - but I dont know what to do about it.

 

[Bleigh]

I like to think I have respect for all living things - except a recent hornets nest in the back yard... I have no qualms (ethical or otherwise) - keeping fish/coral in my tank (s) including tangs, etc. I also think most zoos currently do not have (or at least are NOT supposed to have) animals displaying obvious neurotic behavior (nor should we in our tanks).

This is an interesting thread - and without choosing any one post - I think that overall the fish in our tanks do better than 1. In the fish store in which they came, 2. The wholesaler from which they came and 3 Probably better than the ocean from which they came. I feel no guilt for the animals for which I care.

I see personalities in my fish. But I try not to 'overanalyze' what they are feeling, wanting. If one of my tangs chases another for 5 seconds - I dont worry about it (because usually the next time its the other one chasing the first one) - most of the time everyone gets along.

If anyone has kept reading this far - I would make this point about zoos and tanks. At least zoos are run by 'professionals'. If anything is 'unethical' its the fact that ANYONE can own an aquarium with no training, etc - reading some of the threads here - everyone knows what I mean - I just got a 40 gallon tank - and put in 10 fish and 20 coral now everything is dying. That I find unethical/a problem - but I dont know what to do about it.

I have to add, 4) they’re treated better than fish who are caught for eating.

I think the unethical thing you mention could’ve applied to anyone with any pet. People keep dogs who don’t get walks like they should, or hamsters that don’t have adequate space. I have one friend who believes keeping any animals “captive” is unethical. (He says they’re enslaved.) I think it’s okay to make your own determination on it and as long as someone isn’t abusive, I won’t judge. Those small tank crisis you mention toe the line of being abusive, imo.