Does my sump really need baffles?

[DaneGer21]

Not needed. The only "filtering" a sump would do with baffles in place would be if you implemented a mechanical sponge in between baffles to trap particles. Another reason for baffles would be to have different flow zones within the sump, for a refugium etc.

All you need is a good ATO to keep water level consistent for your skimmer, and maybe run a filter sock to aid in some mechanical filtration if deemed necessary.

I've ran my sump baffleless for 10 years. All I have is a 40g breeder with a big skimmer (relative to my tank size),a reliable tunzee ATO, a floating santa Monica algae scrubber and every once in awhile I'll run a filter sock when I Turkey baste my rocks to catch excessive detritus.

For me a sump isn't really a "fliter", but rather a vessel to house equipment and add extra water volume to the system.

This is EXACTLY my setup, but a different ATO manufacturer

 

[Reefer40b]

Not needed. The only "filtering" a sump would do with baffles in place would be if you implemented a mechanical sponge in between baffles to trap particles. Another reason for baffles would be to have different flow zones within the sump, for a refugium etc.

All you need is a good ATO to keep water level consistent for your skimmer, and maybe run a filter sock to aid in some mechanical filtration if deemed necessary.

I've ran my sump baffleless for 10 years. All I have is a 40g breeder with a big skimmer (relative to my tank size),a reliable tunzee ATO, a floating santa Monica algae scrubber and every once in awhile I'll run a filter sock when I Turkey baste my rocks to catch excessive detritus.

For me a sump isn't really a "fliter", but rather a vessel to house equipment and add extra water volume to the system.

Exactly! well said

 

[BLANKOA]

? what else could a baffle do for me with this large a volume?

Another thing to consider is evaporation and your ato. If you don't have any baffles it will take until the entire sump level drops to activate the ato. If you have single baffle by the return, the ato won't have to pump as much water. If you're going as big as you say, the ato could be pumping gallons of water to adjust the water height just a little bit.

Tutuapp 9Apps ShowBox

 

[jeffchapok]

I have no baffles in my little homemade sump (a repurposed 6 gal acrylic tank). I don't have any microbubbles because my return flows into my HOB on the prefilter side.

 

[Oldsalt]

I think the reasoning behind early sumps was baffles were incorporated as bubble traps. Aside from that, I can't see any problems with a sump without any.

 

[LadyTang2]

I have an extra DOS head, thinking of just estimating an average evaporation level and setting it for that IE 3 gallons every day RODI, that will keep it pretty close then I can test now and then.

 

[Entomophage]

I agree with the consensus here that creating a smaller return chamber for ATO purposes is likely the biggest advantage, but not necessarily critical.

This post reminded me of something I've always wondered about:

The purpose of sump walls and baffles is to direct water through filtration stages, then to return cleaner water to your tank. If there is nothing to provide the water with a direction much of the water in the sump won’t get filtered. Baffles will allow you to create different levels in the sump. The different levels can be set for a particular skimmer water height, or section for rock.

If you don’t create flow or direction in your sump section you’ll waste allot of energy and achieve very little filtration.

Even if 90% of the water that flows through your sump goes right past your skimmer, isn't the performance of the skimmer still limited by the concentration of dissolved organics in the water which is relatively homogeneous in a closed system with high flow? For example, if I placed two skimmers in a tank - one right in the display (bear with me as a though experiment), and another in the sump with all the circulation forced past it, and all other variables are equal, wouldn't they perform the same?

Obviously mechanical filtration can only trap particles that pass directly through it. But, intuitively, it seems like skimming and chemical filtration works differently. Am I thinking about this wrong?

 

[RocketEngineer]

Even if 90% of the water that flows through your sump goes right past your skimmer, isn't the performance of the skimmer still limited by the concentration of dissolved organics in the water which is relatively homogeneous in a closed system with high flow? For example, if I placed two skimmers in a tank - one right in the display (bear with me as a though experiment), and another in the sump with all the circulation forced past it, and all other variables are equal, wouldn't they perf

Obviously mechanical filtration can only trap particles that pass directly through it. But, intuitively, it seems like skimming and chemical filtration works differently. Am I thinking about this wrong?

What you are describing is the difference between a single pass filter (mechanical) and a multipass filter (skimmer/chemical). In the case of mechanical, if it can get through the filter media, it will likely never get trapped. However, a skimmer has many opportunities to remove a given protein as each time it goes through, there is alway a chance for removal.

The misconception that you should match flow through the sump to the skimmer stems from the misunderstanding that a skimmer only has one chance to remove something.In reality, having enough flow to keep the water in the sump and display homogeneous is all that’s required. That way the skimmer is pulling from the same concentration as found anywhere in the entire system.

 

[dwest]

I have a 40 gallon tank as a sump for my 180 gallon reef. I don’t use baffles. I’ve had baffled sumps in the past. I prefer the simplicity of no baffles. I use a spectrapure ATO In which I tell the ATO how much water to put in daily with a pressure switch backup.

 

[Loggerhead]

Baffles also can help if you are running a refugium section of your sump. They can keep snails, crabs and other hitchhiking critters away from your return pump or skimmer pump. also keep Chaeto or other algae from breaking loose and flowing to the pump. If you are not concerned with this then you don’t really need baffles. Salinity swings won’t really be noticeable in your setup as you will be running a couple of hundreds or gallons of water total volume. One or two gallons of evaporation out of 2-250 gallons total water volume isn’t too much at all whereas 1-2 gallons evaporation on a Biocube would cause issues.

 

[lilgrounchuck]

I like having lots of rock in my sump and want one with the same vol as my DT (175g each total=350g). I was thinking of just buying a plastic box and using it as a sump. People talk about bubble traps but with a box that large would bubble trap even do much? what else could a baffle do for me with this large a volume?

You don’t need them. When I ran a sump I just used a Rubbermaid tub. I did get bubbles from my skimmer, but I stuck it in a smaller tub and cut a slot out of the side on the bottom. Bubbles rose up and water went out the bottom. The auto kept the whole sump at the same level. One thing to be careful about though is flood prevention if something clogs. I made sure my levels were set that if my pump stopped, the sump wouldn’t overflow AND if my drain stopped that the tank wouldn’t overflow. Make sure to find that balance point and don’t run the water level any higher.

 

[horsefarm5]

Ive run a 100 gal stock tank with ato...no baffles and no issues. I00 gal DT for 10 yrs.
ATO adds several times a day with no more than a pint or2 at a time

 

[Daniel@R2R Verified Admin]

I think it just depends on what you're planning. As long as you designed your system accordingly, I don't think not having baffles is a problem.

 

[PhreeByrd]

I have used sumps both with and without baffles, and both can be made to work. But the comments about using baffles to create smaller sections in the sump are valid and worth consideration.

Almost all modern in-sump skimmers require a constant water height for the skimmer to sit in. That means you should have a baffle to create a stable water-level skimmer compartment in the sump. Especially during water changes and similar maintenance, the water level in the sump is likely to change significantly, which, without any baffles, will affect the skimmer operation. A too-low water level could actually allow the skimmer pump to run dry.

A small volume of water for an ATO system to monitor improves salinity stability. Most often the ATO is monitored in the return section of the sump. My return section holds about 3.5 gallons of water. My very simple ATO system runs several times per hour, typically adding about 100mL of water at a time. That keeps the system salinity extremely stable.

 

[X-37B]

120 DT 40 breeder sump no baffles. The tunze ato adds multiple times a day in very small amounts. Very stable! Just because all factory sumps have baffles does not make them a requirement. If your running a fuge in your sump I would recommend one to keep it seperate. Many ways to run a sump, pick the one that works with your system. I have ran both and just like the no baffle systems.

 

[lmm1967]

in a water volume that big, you will have significant swings in salinity if you are using an ATO.

I'm running a 180 + 60 off a shared 125g sump with no baffles. The sump typically runs with about 95 gallons of water in it.

If my sump drops by 1/4" that means I've evaporated about 1.15 gallons of water (60" X 18" X .25" / 231). Considering my water volume in this system is roughly 330 gallons - if the ATO kicks on and adds 1.15 gallons of water my salinity is going to swing between 35 & 34.88 PPT or from 1.0264 to 1.0263.

My Tunze ATO keeps my water level within 1/4" in the sump - based on run time each time it kicks on I'm going to guess it's actually adding less than 1 gallon of water.

Unless you have quite a small volume of water I don't believe salinity swings is a reason to run a baffled sump or a compartment for your return pump.

 

[PhreeByrd]

I'm running a 180 + 60 off a shared 125g sump with no baffles. The sump typically runs with about 95 gallons of water in it.

Thanks for taking the time to do the math. The salinity issue is obviously not a big deal in your case.

 

[LadyTang2]

How would a smaller compartment help with ato? The water still moves up and down throughout the entire sump at the same rate, some levels are just physically higher than others due to baffles but movement of the waterline from evaporation will be at the same slow pace dependent on total sump volume, correct? That was tough to word, hope I got my point/suspicion across.

 

[lmm1967]

.25" drop in a chamber that is 12" X 18" is much less water than a .25" drop in a sump that is 60" X 18".

Return pump chambers in a proper sump are the only chamber where the water fluctuates.

 

[WVNed]

You need baffles. Who doesn't want baffles. Everyone has them. Baffles do important things like baffling.