Does the salt you use matter very much?

[homer1475]

+1 for Tropic Marin for lack of gunk build up in the Brute. I will say, though, from personal experience, if you leave it in there, even with circulation pumps, for more than a couple weeks, it will have a nasty film at the water line. I'm not totally sure there is one, but I wish someone could crack the code on longer term storage of SW, so I don't have to dump unused SW or make it in small batches. I'd personally love to just make one big batch to last for a few months if it would store well somehow, but that's just me.

And thats why those of us that store salt water for long periods of time(large mixing stations), use IO.

For the brown sludge issue(I honestly haven't found a salt that doesnt have this after a while with the excpetion of TM, but that left a nasty film after a couple weeks, and smelled funny), see my post above.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Never had any brown crud in any salt I've ever used, for a couple of reasons.

1) I always clean my mixing buckets after every time I use them. Simple to rinse and rub hand with clean water then rinse again.

2) I use a 4 stage RO/DI.

People complain that Reef Crystals leaves a brown residue. If it left a brown residue in your container, it's because you are using tap water or your RO/DI needs new filters or your water source is very high in contaminants even after going through the RO/DI. Usually Well Water.

Reef Crystals has a heavy metal detoxifier mixed in the salt. So any brown residue is from your source water and you should thank Reef Crystals that it contains that.

I have used Tropic Marin Pro, Red Sea Coral Pro, Red Sea Blue Bucket, Seachem Salinity and most other salts out there. I was a die hard Red Sea user until fairly recently.

I switched to Reef Crystals and it is performing flawlessly. I have noticed Reef Crystals has 0 debris in it now. They put a rubber crush seal around the lid and it helps tremendously.

Use the salt that mixes up to the parameters you like to keep. It's very hard to beat Reef Crystals as all if the parameters are virtually perfect for all reef environments. If you like a lower Alk level, then Reef Crystals probably won't be your salt and Red Sea definitely won't be.

 

[homer1475]

Never had any brown crud in any salt I've ever used, for a couple of reasons.

1) I always clean my mixing buckets after every time I use them. Simple to rinse and rub hand with clean water then rinse again.

2) I use a 4 stage RO/DI.

People complain that Reef Crystals leaves a brown residue. If it left a brown residue in your container, it's because you are using tap water or your RO/DI needs new filters or your water source is very high in contaminants even after going through the RO/DI. Usually Well Water.

I have used Tropic Marin Pro, Red Sea Coral Pro, Red Sea Blue Bucket, Seachem Salinity and most other salts out there. I was a die hard Red Sea user until fairly recently.

I switched to Reef Crystals and it is performing flawlessly. I have noticed Reef Crystals has 0 debris in it now. They put a rubber crush seal around the lid and it helps tremendously.

Use the salt that mixes up to the parameters you like to keep. It's very hard to beat Reef Crystals as all if the parameters are virtually perfect for all reef environments. If you like a lower Alk level, then Reef Crystals probably won't be your salt and Red Sea definitely won't be.

Many, many documented cases of "brown sludge" from IORC, and it was not from using tap or RO/DI filters needed change.

I have very good tap water(21TDS going in), and 0 TDS water out of my RO/DI. If I don't run my water through a sediment filter, I have the noted "brown sludge" on the sides of my barrels every time I mix my water. Been using regular old purple box IO for well over 20 years, it wasn't until I saw the BRS video about running your water through a sediment filter, I finally stopped having to clean my mixing station on every batch.

Every salt on the market does it to some degree, some are just worse then others(IORC, IO, etc).

 

[MamaP]

And thats why those of us that store salt water for long periods of time(large mixing stations), use IO.

For the brown sludge issue(I honestly haven't found a salt that doesnt have this after a while with the excpetion of TM, but that left a nasty film after a couple weeks, and smelled funny), see my post above.

Also RE: your previous post.
I actually do run my SW thru a fine mesh filter to keep the water going into the tank pristine, and of course I do use RODI with 0 tds. Here's where I got the info regarding TM when I switched:

BRStv Product Spotlight-Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt Mix Video

Find out why we use Tropic Marin Pro Reef on our own tanks here at BRS.

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Many, many documented cases of "brown sludge" from IORC, and it was not from using tap or RO/DI filters needed change.

I have very good tap water(21TDS going in), and 0 TDS water out of my RO/DI. If I don't run my water through a sediment filter, I have the noted "brown sludge" on the sides of my barrels every time I mix my water. Been using regular old purple box IO for well over 20 years, it wasn't until I saw the BRS video about running your water through a sediment filter, I finally stopped having to clean my mixing station on every batch.

Every salt on the market does it to some degree, some are just worse then others(IORC, IO, etc).

What you wrote contradicts itself. If you have 0 TDS then you say you run through a sediment filter. Well, every RO/DI system I know uses a sediment filter for the first stage after the membrane.

However, you took the salt out of the mix totally when you said you had 0 sludge if you ran through a sediment filter. That would indicate exactly what I said, a bad initial water source. If you don't have the sludge when you run through a sediment filter, that's before you add salt.

Regardless, It isn't the salt quality, but a feature of the metal remover in Reef Crystals as early on, most used tap water as RO/DI wasn't really a thing.

 

[homer1475]

What you wrote contradicts itself. If you have 0 TDS then you say you run through a sediment filter. Well, every RO/DI system I know uses a sediment filter for the first stage after the membrane.

However, you took the salt out of the mix totally when you said you had 0 sludge if you ran through a sediment filter. That would indicate exactly what I said, a bad initial water source. If you don't have the sludge when you run through a sediment filter, that's before you add salt.

Regardless, It isn't the salt quality, but a feature of the metal remover in Reef Crystals as early on, most used tap water as RO/DI wasn't really a thing.

No you totally misunderstand me.......

It's not my ro/di thats the issue, its the brown sludge in the salt mix, and I run my salt mix through a RO/DI sediment filter.

Watch this video starting at about the 13:20 mark, you'll understand the use of the sediment filter:


And see my post #56 in this thread for my setup:

Fritz's RPM reef salt low dKH

If one has to worry about not heating the water before mixing, using it in 2 hours, etc then the salt is not worth using. The last thing I need in life is a high maintenance salt. My suggestion is that if you don’t like it, don’t over think it. Just move on. Many other brands on the market to...

www.reef2reef.com

Metal remover? Thats a new one on me, in 20+ years in the hobby, and pretty much using IO for 90% of that 20, never heard it was metal remover? I've read it's anything from anti caking agents, to the trace elements they source, to now metal remover? Interesting take though, as even tropic marin is now showing "brown sludge", as well as any other salt I've ever used after being stored for a while(pretty sure they all don't have metal remover in them). No one really knows what it is, even our resident chemist @Randy Holmes-Farley doesn't know what it is.

 

[Malcontent]

Metal remover? Thats a new one on me, in 20+ years in the hobby, and pretty much using IO for 90% of that 20, never heard it was metal remover? I've read it's anything from anti caking agents, to the trace elements they source, to now metal remover? Interesting take though, as even tropic marin is now showing "brown sludge", as well as any other salt I've ever used after being stored for a while(pretty sure they all don't have metal remover in them). No one really knows what it is, even our resident chemist @Randy Holmes-Farley doesn't know what it is.

It seems far-fetched to me as well. I don't even think chelating agents can work in saltwater due to all the calcium.

 

[tharbin]

Reef Crystals does contain a metal detoxifier, not a metal remover. It was originally developed to be able to be used with tap water. I doubt however the brown sludge is metals. I think that RC like almost all salts (I guess now including TMP) is nothing more than impurities.

Using a sediment filter in your mixing station should remove it although I've never tried it. Using RODI water will not affect it as the sludge is from the salt, not the water.

What you wrote contradicts itself. If you have 0 TDS then you say you run through a sediment filter. Well, every RO/DI system I know uses a sediment filter for the first stage after the membrane.

However, you took the salt out of the mix totally when you said you had 0 sludge if you ran through a sediment filter. That would indicate exactly what I said, a bad initial water source. If you don't have the sludge when you run through a sediment filter, that's before you add salt.

Regardless, It isn't the salt quality, but a feature of the metal remover in Reef Crystals as early on, most used tap water as RO/DI wasn't really a thing.

This is just plain wrong. The sediment filter in an RODI is the first stage of an RODI, then comes the main pre-filtration-almost always one or more carbon blocks, THEN the membrane, and finally the DI resins.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Well I believe we are getting communications crossed.

I was speaking of tap to 4/5/6/7 stage RO/DI. Now, it seems the discussion went to using a sediment filter in the mixing station?

Oh well, whatever the discussion, I believe the sludge begins with the source water and not the salt.

Good discussions.

 

[homer1475]

It's not the water, thats why the discussion gravitated to the salt mix, and how to clear it up.

It's 100% in the salt and not the source water.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Straight from Reef Crystals:

Enriched formulation. Optimum effectiveness. Formulated specially for use in reef aquariums, Reef Crystals® contains essential ocean reef elements in concentrations greater than those found in natural sea water.

• Specially formulated for use in reef aquariums – contains essential ocean reef elements in greater concentrations than natural sea water
• Contains extra calcium to ensure stony coral and coralline algae growth, extra trace elements to provide vital nutrients and extra vitamins to support vigorous growth and survival of corals, anemones and other invertebrates in a captive environment
• Neutralizes trace heavy metals often found in tap water
• A special additive helps to detoxify excess heavy metals, such as copper, that are often found at elevated levels in domestic water supplies.

Now what I was saying, during the neutralization/detoxification stage, the heavy metals could precipitate from the mixture while mixing.

That would be your source water. For whatever reason, those metals weren't removed after your RO/DI stage and are making it to the salt mixing stage. Then the salt detoxifies it, possibly causing it to precipitate from the solution and it deposits as the brown sludge you see.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Why wouldn’t heavy metals be removed via RO/DI?!

 

[homer1475]

I get what your saying, but not all salts have that notation. Yet it seems most every salt has it to some degree.

Only salt that I'm aware of that didn't, was tropic marin. Now there are threads popping up that it also contains this "brown sludge".

 

[tharbin]

Well I believe we are getting communications crossed.

I was speaking of tap to 4/5/6/7 stage RO/DI. Now, it seems the discussion went to using a sediment filter in the mixing station?

Oh well, whatever the discussion, I believe the sludge begins with the source water and not the salt.

Good discussions.

HurricaneSystems,

I can assure you the sludge is not from the source water. Most serious reefers were using RODI by the mid 80s, I know I was and all the reefers I knew were as well. I personally used a SpectraPure top-of-the-line with 4 TDS meters on it. The water that it produced could sit in a holding vat for weeks and there was zero residue in the vat. Mix up a batch of RC, IO, or any other salt except TP (there was only one TP back then) and there would be sludge in the mixing vat. It had to come from the salt mix.

 

[tharbin]

Why wouldn’t heavy metals be removed via RO/DI?!

They are.

Reef Crystals was made by Aquarium Systems that also made Instant Ocean. It was designed before RODI was commonly used so they added the detoxifier. The idea was that you could use tap water, dechlorinate it and add the RC. Not exactly ideal and keeping a tank with anything even remotely sensitive was a challenge but it did work, kind of.

 

[Tbg299]

When last I had a reef tank (15 years ago or so) I was using Instant Ocean for salt. I understand there were some serious problems with that product in the interim and I would prefer to stay away from it. There are a lot of other options, but are any of them noticeably better than the others?

Yes it does. I use Red Sea Coral Pro salt mix, which is very high in Mg. Inonly have to dose it like once a month.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I use Instant Ocean exclusively with non RO/DI water. It works fine for me. I pre mix in my sump with the return pump off. Then after 15 minutes of mixing with the skimmer pump and some manual stirring it goes straight into circulation into the display. Everything is fine.

 

[Spieg]

Water (tap or RODI) with metal content will not read zero TDS (period). The "brown sludge" comes from binding agent in the calcium component of some salt mixes which allows alkalinity to become suspended in solution before the calcium is released (preventing/reducing precipitation). Not all salt mixes use this method.

 

[Tamberav]

It doesn’t really matter in terms of the tanks inhabitants. You can find beautiful tanks using any salt. Yes, instant ocean is fine too.

 

[Itsadeepbluesea]

No you totally misunderstand me.......

It's not my ro/di thats the issue, its the brown sludge in the salt mix, and I run my salt mix through a RO/DI sediment filter.

Watch this video starting at about the 13:20 mark, you'll understand the use of the sediment filter:


And see my post #56 in this thread for my setup:

Fritz's RPM reef salt low dKH

If one has to worry about not heating the water before mixing, using it in 2 hours, etc then the salt is not worth using. The last thing I need in life is a high maintenance salt. My suggestion is that if you don’t like it, don’t over think it. Just move on. Many other brands on the market to...

www.reef2reef.com

Metal remover? Thats a new one on me, in 20+ years in the hobby, and pretty much using IO for 90% of that 20, never heard it was metal remover? I've read it's anything from anti caking agents, to the trace elements they source, to now metal remover? Interesting take though, as even tropic marin is now showing "brown sludge", as well as any other salt I've ever used after being stored for a while(pretty sure they all don't have metal remover in them). No one really knows what it is, even our resident chemist @Randy Holmes-Farley doesn't know what it is.

Thanks for sharing, I'd recommend watching this for anyone.