Don't have a GFCI outlet? Get one! Almost died!

[Brew12]

I don't know what GFCI is but this is a shocking read

GFCI = Ground Fault Current Interrupter

It measures the current in the hot leg and compares it to the current in the neutral leg. If they don't match that means some current is going somewhere it shouldn't and it trips to remove power.

 

[Mania25]

Oh ok. Learn something new everyday

 

[Joey waid]

please don't be mad for saying this but that's wrong. Kinda. Current doesn't go anywhere but volts do. The gfci breaker and receptacle measure the demand in the current/amps. When ever you plug something in a receptical and using the power the return current and volts will never be the same, because you are using the power. What goes out the neutral and then back to the grid or ground is the unused power. It will trip when there is large difference.

Volts is like water, current/amps is the flow of the volts, like water. I know somebody is going to do a copy and paste and such and put numbers into this. I'm not trying to cause a crap storm. I'm just informing to the best of my meager knowledge...

 

[Anthony Wood]

I'm ending my last comment with this. GFCI's are not perfect nothing in the world is. But the GFCI is there for your protection not the tanks. Me personally would rather have the outlet in place for my protection to walk another day on this earth. Getting back to GFCI's don't always work perfectly which is a reality there has to be other fail safes in place to protect the tank point blank. For me I have a 220g tank in the basement with stable temps and the vortech battery backups. The tank can go hours possibly even a day without anyone over seeing it. Plus I have a archon controller I can log onto my phone with that I can check on at any point. GFCI's aren't perfect but it's for you, various other fail safes have to be in place are for the tank. Food for thought would you rather walk on this earth another day or leave the tank in your inheritance? At 24 years old the choice is pretty simple for me.

 

[Joey waid]

I'm ending my last comment with this. GFCI's are not perfect nothing in the world is. But the GFCI is their for your protection not the tanks. Me personally would rather have the outlet in place for my protection to walk another day on this earth. Getting back to GFCI's don't always work perfectly which is a reality there has to be other fail safes in place to protect the tank point blank. For me I have a 220g tank in the basement with stable temps and the vortech battery backups. The tank can go hours possibly even a day without anyone over seeing it. Plus I have a archon controller I can log onto my phone with that I can check on at any point. GFCI's perfect or not is for you various other fail safes in place are for the tank. Food for thought would you rather walk on this earth another day or leave the tank in your inheritance. At 24 years old the choice is pretty simple for me.

I really like the camera/controller idea, plus it will be cool to show people your pets. The gfci is a no brianer we all need one......

 

[klp]

Agreed that we need both a GFCI and a ground probe as they compliment on another. Appreciate all the expertise and comments. Learned a lot.

 

[DaleMHauzeJr]

I have a different take on GFCI outlets as I had 2 dang near burn my house down. They shorted out internally and luckily my breakers tripped before the outlet went up in flames. So needless to say when I moved into my current house, I tore every one out and replaced them with 15a standard outlets. If you feel you have to run them don't go cheap.

 

[Anthony Wood]

I have a different take on GFCI outlets as I had 2 **** near burn my house down. They shorted out internally and luckily my breakers tripped before the outlet went up in flames. So needless to say when I moved into my current house, I tore every one out and replaced them with 15a standard outlets. If you feel you have to run them don't go cheap.

This goes to the old saying, You get what you pay for

 

[RamsReef]

please don't be mad for saying this but that's wrong. Kinda. Current doesn't go anywhere but volts do. The gfci breaker and receptacle measure the demand in the current/amps. When ever you plug something in a receptical and using the power the return current and volts will never be the same, because you are using the power. What goes out the neutral and then back to the grid or ground is the unused power. It will trip when there is large difference.

Volts is like water, current/amps is the flow of the volts, like water. I know somebody is going to do a copy and paste and such and put numbers into this. I'm not trying to cause a crap storm. I'm just informing to the best of my meager knowledge...

Joey you are arguing with two electrical engineers and quite frankly giving a lot of harmful misinformation.

Please read the pdf I provided from NEMA.

 

[RamsReef]

This goes to the old saying, You get what you pay for

Yes, as I stated please see the post from Hubbell products.

 

[Joey waid]

Joey you are arguing with two electrical engineers and quite frankly giving a lot of harmful misinformation.

Please read the pdf I provided from NEMA.

I wasn't aware I was arguing with anyone. Please let me know how dumb I am. Really please have the two engineers point out how I'm misinforming anyone enough to harm them. Thank...

 

[umac]

Ill just make sure to wear wet socks on wet carpet

 

[Brew12]

please don't be mad for saying this but that's wrong. Kinda. Current doesn't go anywhere but volts do. The gfci breaker and receptacle measure the demand in the current/amps. When ever you plug something in a receptical and using the power the return current and volts will never be the same, because you are using the power. What goes out the neutral and then back to the grid or ground is the unused power. It will trip when there is large difference.

Volts is like water, current/amps is the flow of the volts, like water. I know somebody is going to do a copy and paste and such and put numbers into this. I'm not trying to cause a crap storm. I'm just informing to the best of my meager knowledge...

Joey, I'm going to try and put this as nicely as I can. Pretty much everything you said in here is wrong. Current is what flows through a system. Volts are the potential that make current flow. If comparing electricity to a water system than volts would be like pressure and amps would be the water flow.

You do not consume amperage when it flows however you do get a voltage drop. Think of a closed loop water system with a water pump that turns a water wheel. The water pump would supply the pressure (Volts). The water flows (current) through the water wheel causing it to turn. The water pressure past the water wheel is almost zero however there is the same amount of water on both sides of the water wheel. In terms of your outlet you have 120V on the hot leg and oV on the neutral. If you have 5 amps flowing through your system that current should be the same on the hot leg and the neutral. As your current goes up the power provided by the voltage drop goes up.

"Unused power" doesn't really exist. We typically use an AC (alternating current) meaning that the electrons are continuously moving back and forth. Current does not just flow "back to the grid or ground". If people do not consume all of the power generated by the utility than frequency of the system goes up. If people consume more electricity than is being generated the frequency goes down. It is one major goal of utilities to exactly match generation to actual power demand in order to maintain as close to 60 hz as possible.

It's probably best if you read about basic electrical theory from a reputable source before you try to explain how it works to someone else.

 

[Anthony Wood]

Ok so I fibbed a little that wasn't my last post. Need someone to verify something. Speaking of ground probes. We can all agree saltwater by itself is ungrounded so any stray current will stay ungrounded. Now I'm taking the human out of the equation.

Am I wrong in saying that a ground probe without in combination with a GFCI will do more harm to the tank then having no ground probe because you don't have a GFCI. Reason being the ground probe without the GFCI will complete the circuit and roast the tank? So the only time you should be using a ground probe is if you have it plugged into a GFCI? Reason being that if stray current is introduced into the tank the ground probe would complete the circuit but the GFCI would obviously trip and cut the power. Someone please verify by agreeing or correcting my statement please because I believe there are a lot of people who have confusion with ground probes.

@Brew12

 

[Brew12]

Ok so I fibbed a little that wasn't my last post. Need someone to verifie something. Speaking of ground probes. We can all agree saltwater by itself is ungrounded so any stray current will stay ungrounded. Now I'm taking the human out of the equation.

Am I wrong in saying that a ground probe without in combination with a GFCI will do more harm to the tank then having no ground probe because you don't have a GFCI. Reason being the ground probe without the GFCI will complete the circuit and roast the tank? So the only time you should be using a ground probe is if you have it plugged into a GFCI? Reason being that if stray current is introduced into the tank the ground probe would complete the circuit but the GFCI would obviously trip and cut the power. Someone please verify by agreeing or correcting my statement please because I believe there are a lot of people who have confusion with ground probes.

@Brew12

Saltwater shouldn't be considered grounded or ungrounded. It is only a conductor that may or may not have a path to ground. In most aquariums the glass insulates the saltwater from ground preventing current from flowing from the source to ground. If you have a voltage source in the tank water it can cause circulating currents within the tank that could both generate heat and cause harm to your fish.

A ground plug would ideally be used with a GFCI. It is always of benefit to a persons safety to have a ground probe installed. Yes, it is possible that a fault could occur that would allow enough current flow to heat the tank without tripping the breaker but I would think that is highly unlikely.

In my tank I will use a combination of GFCI protected devices and non GFCI protected devices. And I will be using a ground probe. The probe ensures the potential in the tank must be at ground potential. The GFCI provides additional protection by deenergizing the faulted component. The non GFCI equipment will only be the items that are critical to the long term health of the tank residents.

 

[Anthony Wood]

Saltwater shouldn't be considered grounded or ungrounded. It is only a conductor that may or may not have a path to ground. In most aquariums the glass insulates the saltwater from ground preventing current from flowing from the source to ground. If you have a voltage source in the tank water it can cause circulating currents within the tank that could both generate heat and cause harm to your fish.

A ground plug would ideally be used with a GFCI. It is always of benefit to a persons safety to have a ground probe installed. Yes, it is possible that a fault could occur that would allow enough current flow to heat the tank without tripping the breaker but I would think that is highly unlikely.

In my tank I will use a combination of GFCI protected devices and non GFCI protected devices. And I will be using a ground probe. The probe ensures the potential in the tank must be at ground potential. The GFCI provides additional protection by deenergizing the faulted component. The non GFCI equipment will only be the items that are critical to the long term health of the tank residents.

Understood I prolly wasn't clear enough. Obviously stray voltage in a tank is no good in any scenario. Which would be the lesser of 2 evils for the health of the tank inhabitants no humans imvolved. stray voltage with no ground probe and no GFCI or stray voltage with ground probe and no GFCI?

 

[Joey waid]

Joey, I'm going to try and put this as nicely as I can. Pretty much everything you said in here is wrong. Current is what flows through a system. Volts are the potential that make current flow. If comparing electricity to a water system than volts would be like pressure and amps would be the water flow.

You do not consume amperage when it flows however you do get a voltage drop. Think of a closed loop water system with a water pump that turns a water wheel. The water pump would supply the pressure (Volts). The water flows (current) through the water wheel causing it to turn. The water pressure past the water wheel is almost zero however there is the same amount of water on both sides of the water wheel. In terms of your outlet you have 120V on the hot leg and oV on the neutral. If you have 5 amps flowing through your system that current should be the same on the hot leg and the neutral. As your current goes up the power provided by the voltage drop goes up.

"Unused power" doesn't really exist. We typically use an AC (alternating current) meaning that the electrons are continuously moving back and forth. Current does not just flow "back to the grid or ground". If people do not consume all of the power generated by the utility than frequency of the system goes up. If people consume more electricity than is being generated the frequency goes down. It is one major goal of utilities to exactly match generation to actual power demand in order to maintain as close to 60 hz as possible.

It's probably best if you read about basic electrical theory from a reputable source before you try to explain how it works to someone else.

I'm sorry I did not explain or put in the right terms. I guess for what I have been doing my whole life has been wrong.. Leading and lagging power factors, data logging, I can see what the powers doing and what the current and volts are doing. Most of my work is in Three phase apps where there is no neutral, and to make a neutral you make a star resistor on the three legs to see if the voltage is even. ( this is on the output of drives where it's a square sine wave and its dc). To say you have stray current makes no sense to me, sorry. I have worked around electrical engineers my whole adult life. They created the first motor inverters and then vfd's. I really don't think I'm a dumb butt when it comes to the flow of electrons. My opinion of the water anology is different than yours or I'm using different words in my head, but I do believe I know the Thory of it, And no offense taken. Thanks.

 

[Brew12]

I see no benefit to not having a ground probe. Yes, you could have that 1 in a million fault where it could cause harm but I would say that it is more likely your GFCI would fail than it is your ground probe would cause excessive heating. A ground probe is so simple that it almost cannot fail as long as you inspect it every few months.

 

[Anthony Wood]

I see no benefit to not having a ground probe. Yes, you could have that 1 in a million fault where it could cause harm but I would say that it is more likely your GFCI would fail than it is your ground probe would cause excessive heating. A ground probe is so simple that it almost cannot fail as long as you inspect it every few months.

Perfect explanation! Appreciate the response a bunch! Have a great weekend!

 

[Blaze0303]

Glad you're okay and i'm glad to have this forum, the first day I bought my setup I changed my outlet to GFCI.