Dosing 2-part + kalk?

[Reefltx]

I've been dosing 2-parts for 2yrs, but my pH has become extremely low a few hrs before lights on. It hits 7.6 daily, tops at 8.0. I'm thinking about running kalk on one of my empty dosing line. I've never dosed kalk before and I'm sure my 2-part will need to be adjusted. What do you guys think, any opinion? I'm also running a co2 scrubber and for some reason it's not helping anymore.


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[Reefing Madness]

:bump2:

 

[mcarroll]

My favorite way to dose kalk is via you top off through a Tunze 5074 Calcium Dispenser. (There are similar reactors, but this is the ultimate in no-fault simplicity IMO. No moving parts.)

Also, FWIW, I've recently shut down my dosers and started adding 30ml of vinegar to my ATO bucket to boost my kalk.

-Matt

 

[cardiffgiant]

I started with kalk and began 2 part once kalk no longer met the demand of the system. Going in the reverse order should be interesting.

How big is your system and how much 2 part do you dose? Obviously, you'll need to reduce your 2 part (most likely reducing the calcium part by more than the alkalinity part), and will need to test frequently until you've dialed in you tanks demand.

 

[Reefltx]

I'm dosing both 2-part and kalk, kalk mainly to help with low pH. I am 3 days in, I dropped both my alk & cal. by 5ml. I tested alk & cal daily, my alk dropped from 8.2 to 7dkh the first night and cal dropped 10ppm from 420ppm. I was only dosing 30ml kalk on day1, day2 50ml, now I bumped it to 90ml since seeing no change in alk or cal readings. PH hasn't increased either. Is it safe to dose this amount of kalk a day or even higher? I know folks use kalk in ATO or dripped 24/7, so I'm assuming they are dosing massive amounts. My tank is 60g SPS heavy, normally I dose 45ml of alk & cal. to maintain levels at 8.2dkh/420ppm.


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[Mike J.]

I take 200 ml vinegar and mix it with 9 teaspoons of kalkwasser and pour it into a 5 gallon bucket of RO/DI water. It needs very little mixing. I have an aqualifter sitting on top of the 5 gal. bucket with a tube through the lid about 1 1/2" off the bottom. This tops off my 120 gal. tank for 4-5 days. There is very little kalk residue remaining this way. I also do 15% water changes weekly.

This is the recipe that I use.

kalkwasser

 

[bknapp]

My favorite way to dose kalk is via you top off through a Tunze 5074 Calcium Dispenser. (There are similar reactors, but this is the ultimate in no-fault simplicity IMO. No moving parts.)

Also, FWIW, I've recently shut down my dosers and started adding 30ml of vinegar to my ATO bucket to boost my kalk.

-Matt

The vinegar will boost the strength of the kalk mix and help with bacteria (it's a form of carbon dosing) but in this case with a low pH I wouldn't add it to your top off/kalk. I was doing this for a while but I was having the same pH issues as the OP and it stayed that way until is discontinued the use of the vinegar in the kalk mix. I am a big fan of using kalk, especially in an SPS dominant tank.

Best of luck.

 

[mcarroll]

I don't track pH as there are better ways..namely, tracking alkalinity. I recommend the same for others unless they are doing something relatively risky like running a CO2 reactor. With rare exceptions, pH should be pretty superfluous for anyone tracking and maintaining alkalinity. If you're one of the rare souls with high CO2 levels in the house....well, at least you only have to figure it out once.

To the OP, how do you mean your CO2 scrubber doesn't work anymore? Can you elaborate?

If you follow the chemistry there's no chance of creating a pH issue anyway...but if you already have issues (anything), they'd be better off being addressed before doing anything like starting a new dosing regimen with vinegar, or anything else. I'm also dosing only 30 mL per 5 gallons of ATO into a 100 gallon system that has almost no bio-load other than being packed with SPS, so I don't know if that counts as very much for carbon dosing. It still does the trick for the mineral boost! I think if I were carbon dosing I would still use this method though.

And FWIW, if you're already dosing two-part (getting back to the OP's situation) you should already be getting a little pH boost from the washing soda as its carbonates "soak up" some of the excess CO2 in the water. Have you thought about placing your alkalinity dose so it's hitting the tank right through this low pH swing?

FWIW, even dosing kalk+vinegar with two-part, I ended up switching to plain baking soda to keep the pH from spiking (I was dosing large quantities so it was getting hard to manage....not a problem at all starting out.)....a slight dip is preferable to a slight spike for me, if I have to choose. If you are solely going mostly for the pH boost you would want to leave the vinegar aside though, you're right.

And BTW, if anyone isn't familiar with the Tunze 5074 kalk dispenser (especially if you're already running an Aqualifter, which works great with it) you should check it out. Much better way of dosing kalk (with and without vinegar)...eliminates almost every downside/risk of kalk and I think it makes it even simpler than manual methods.

-Matt

 

[Reefltx]

After dosing 120ml of saturated kalk water a day I see no change in alk or cal at all. I just increased it to 150ml of kalk per day. I'm guessing I keep increasing kalk until I see a raise in alk. & cal.? Btw, I'm dosing 2-part & kalk every hour. I also have some cyano bloom going on, possible this have some kind of correlation with my low pH problem?




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[mcarroll]

I would think that you'd be making exact adjustments using calcium and alkalinity test kits and 2-part while leaving your kalk dosing alone....sounds like it was in balance at 120mL.

It's not recommended to make adjustments using limewater because it's way too easy to accidentally spike your pH and cause unnecessary problems. (Maybe a bit less risky in your current scenario, but I wouldn't fight a pH issue this way.) Spiking is based on how much CO2 is in your water, not so much on how much limewater you dose...problem is it's impossible to be sure, so you keep the individual limewater doses small and spread out to be safe. Hard to get any significant volume that way though.

It's not too uncommon for tanks with nutrient issues to have low pH issues...I think it's accumulation of carbonic acid. Kinda the opposite of a pH spike. Cyano is pretty common in this scenario as well. I read elsewhere that you are also carbon dosing via biopellets...another source of carbonic acid. Was your pH this low before rolling out the pellets?

It sounds like you may need to take steps to reduce the bio-load in the tank so you can ease off the pellets a bit. I bet the combo would solve most of the issues.

Tell me more about the CO2 scrubber you mentioned - why you had it and how it died?

-Matt

 

[Reefltx]

I'm not sure if it was balanced at 120ml of kalk. I believe it is the adjusted 2-part amount that kept alk & cal where they are currently holding (7dkh/420ppm). I would've thought with the daily increased amount of saturated kalk water I'm dosing it would have bumped up my parameters, but they haven't moved since the first day I started kalk dosing. It's possible I'm under dosing? I'm checking my alk daily and according to my apex, pH hasn't changed. Also, my system has been off bio pellets since December. And, I have been running a co2 scrubber since day 1, but for the past 2 months it hasn't been holding up. I bought the media in bulk and change it quite regularly. Like I mentioned, maybe the cyano bloom have something to do with it.

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[Marquiseo]

Low pH could be a sign of many things. It can range from chemical imbalance from 2 part to high amounts of carbon dioxide. I would say before you start doing kalk. Do water changes and get your parameters straight. If that don't fix it, try airing your home out. Also, make sure that the water surface of the aquarium is being broken by your return line or a powerhead. If that dont fix it, then you can possible take a look at a CO2 scrubber or continue on with kalk but more than likely the one of the first two will fix the problem.

 

[Reefltx]

Low pH could be a sign of many things. It can range from chemical imbalance from 2 part to high amounts of carbon dioxide. I would say before you start doing kalk. Do water changes and get your parameters straight. If that don't fix it, try airing your home out. Also, make sure that the water surface of the aquarium is being broken by your return line or a powerhead. If that dont fix it, then you can possible take a look at a CO2 scrubber or continue on with kalk but more than likely the one of the first two will fix the problem.

Parameters were fine before I started kalk, just low pH. I was dosing equal parts of alk & cal. I do 10% water changes every week religiously, sometimes 2. Nutrients are in check, I don't have any other algae besides cyano. Also I have a good amount of flow 1 mp40, 1 mp10, and 2x tunze on the back walls. Thanks for the tip!


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[Marquiseo]

If you pH is that low, something has to be off. What were your last test results from weekly tests. If you did a water change and dosed two part in equal doses, that can still throw off parameters. Your salt mix may lack. As for CO2, try opening a window and see what does for you.

 

[Reefltx]

If you pH is that low, something has to be off. What were your last test results from weekly tests. If you did a water change and dosed two part in equal doses, that can still throw off parameters. Your salt mix may lack. As for CO2, try opening a window and see what does for you.

Being sps heavy, I test alk the most. My last full test was a week ago. 2-part is dosed every hour 24/7.

Alk-8.2dkh
Cal-420ppm
Mag- 1320ppm
No3- .0-0.2ppm
Po4- .0-.02ppm

I am using Red Sea regular blue bucket as the parameters are closer to what I keep my tank.

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[Reefltx]

I take 200 ml vinegar and mix it with 9 teaspoons of kalkwasser and pour it into a 5 gallon bucket of RO/DI water. It needs very little mixing. I have an aqualifter sitting on top of the 5 gal. bucket with a tube through the lid about 1 1/2" off the bottom. This tops off my 120 gal. tank for 4-5 days. There is very little kalk residue remaining this way. I also do 15% water changes weekly.

This is the recipe that I use.

kalkwasser

Yeah, seems like I am way under dosing. If you're using up 1g a day, which equals something like 3800ml of saturated kalk per day!


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[Marquiseo]

Being sps heavy, I test alk the most. My last full test was a week ago. 2-part is dosed every hour 24/7.

Alk-8.2dkh
Cal-420ppm
Mag- 1320ppm
No3- .0-0.2ppm
Po4- .0-.02ppm

I am using Red Sea regular blue bucket as the parameters are closer to what I keep my tank.

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Ok..So definitely not parameters. Try this if you have a skimmer with a venturi design. Use one of these

and place it on the end of the tubing. Close till you see the bubbles in the skimmer become very fine. That will cause the bubbles to become so fine that it will dissolve in the water column more and increase your pH a bit. It will also increase the output of your skimmer. If that don't work, get a CO2 scrubber Ozotech Ozone Air Dryer - Bulk Reef Supply. Chasing pH with kalk can be on the edge. kalk increases Ca and dKh and you are currently dosing that.

 

[okayamapiper]

I had the same problem in the summer and winter. The culprit was carbon dioxide buildup in the house due to closed windows to save on air conditioning during the summer. In the winter it was worse due to the same plus a kerosene stove. I now run a hose from the outside for my skimmer air intake. pH is 8.2 to 8.5 depending on the time of day.

 

[mcarroll]

I guess it's late in the thread to ask this, but if you didn't have the pH monitor would you otherwise be able to tell there was a problem with the tank?

If low pH is really the only issue I would simply ignore it and allow your tank to be stable and happy.

If it actually seems to be causing problems with your livestock, I think you are going to have to fix your CO2 scrubber or get some additional fresh air into the house, or at least into the tank. (Check out this article on low pH if you haven't already.) Many folks extend the airline from the skimmer out a window, if possible.

I would stop fighting pH with kalk or anything else right now - before you end up with two problems instead of just one.

-Matt

 

[Reefltx]

I guess, probably not.

I do notice my sps shows more PE during the day and overall look more lively now with the pH hitting 8.2 and have noticed more encrustations/growth in the past 3 days then I have in weeks. I think I'm getting close to dialing in my kalk dosages. Right now I'm at 520ml per day. Of course I'm testing alk & cal daily to make sure they haven't spiked and so far they haven't moved. I also tested my kalk mix to make sure it was fully saturated and the pH was right at 11.9


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